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 Topic: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"

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  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1710 - December 29, 2014, 04:52 PM
    Quote from: Lilyesque on December 29, 2014, 04:14 PM
    Good luck doubter_seeker9, and take your time! Have you the resources to cope on your own if needs be?


    Yes, I think I should be OK. A good friend of mine has his guest room prepared for me already, and I have an acceptable salary thanks to part-time job. Should be enough for basic needs until I graduate in a few months. Lets hope I won't have to make use of it for that.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1711 - December 29, 2014, 05:11 PM
     Afro, glad you have yourself all set up if needs be. And big thanks to your friend and your part-time jawb!  dance
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1712 - December 29, 2014, 05:14 PM
    Take care of yourself doubter_seeker - and stay safe,  everything else can wait.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1713 - December 29, 2014, 07:12 PM
    Stay strong doubter_seeker. Hope your family situation goes well. In either case, we are here for you.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1714 - January 07, 2015, 05:13 PM
    The news from France today only makes me more determined to get this published!!
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1715 - January 07, 2015, 08:22 PM
    ^

    I Just had an idea. Maybe we can ask atheist/humanist groups on university campuses to help advertise this ebook on their facebook and pages and once it's published.

    Young muslims in university will be more likely to read this.
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1716 - January 16, 2015, 09:36 PM
    I have a feeling Muslims may be ready for this book.

    What I mean is that it many Muslims who are weary of hearing the same old tired slogans may be finally ready to open their eyes and start some serious introspection and critically examine Islam.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1717 - January 17, 2015, 02:34 PM
    It's rather optimistic (to understate by several thousand miles) to suggest that Muslims will be ready to accept that the Koran was not 'by God', just as it would be for Christians to accept the suggestion that Jesus was not God's son. I wish we lived in a world where the majority were wise and enlightened, and things like that did happen, but we don't. As with all belief systems - remove the cornerstones, and you are suddenly appealing ONLY to the already converted ex-muslims and doubters/haters. The Muslims it would be fantastic for its message to reach, are, unfortunately the very ones that make it impossible, and are the ones who will be 'offended - which will only strengthen their unwanted ties with IS and the like, by giving them something else in common. I'd be ecstatic to be proved wrong, and it's definitely  a very worthy project anyway - well done to all concerned, but y'know. The God Delusion was super successful and has become the Atheist bible, but I doubt it 'converted' many religionists. The thing about them is that they don't seem to listen to reason. If a few outrageous claims were made about flying horses and ocean's parting, you might stand a chance! Still, fingers crossed, you never know, let's see.
    Ha Ha.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1718 - January 18, 2015, 04:13 AM
    Hey guys, so things are calming down enough so that I can start working on this again slowly. I'll need to look at where I am at because I can barely remember where I was in the first place, but it shouldn't take too long. I think by the end of next month, formatting will be done and we can start proof reading this thing.

    I'm not really sure how Muslims how are going to react to this book. I have a feeling that most Muslims will not read it and a few will glance at it and read it. Probably those on the fence of leaving will read it and convince themselves out finally. Of course, most will have very strong opinion on it even though they know nothing on the book. Everyone remembers the Rushdie affair...

    Interestingly, this book at least attempts to face and talk to the Muslim. Most books like these are written to those who already agree. Apologetics only sound solid when you already believe and agree with it, otherwise, the flaws just pop out. "Oh man, I can't wait to show this to my atheist friend; he'll certainly be shaken".

    In the end, I think it just depends on whether you approach something with your emotions or your mind...
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1719 - January 18, 2015, 11:27 AM
    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 18, 2015, 04:13 AM
    I think by the end of next month, formatting will be done and we can start proof reading this thing.


    Excellent!! Thanks, doubter_seeker  Afro

    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 18, 2015, 04:13 AM
    This book at least attempts to face and talk to Muslim...


    Yes, exactly!!

    When I first did my videos a lot of atheists and agnostics didn't get my approach and accused me of being somewhat apologetic - I remember I used to start with "Assalamu Alaykum..." and one guy said why is he saying "salami blah blah... in rag-head language".

    My videos were never for this type of idiot - I always directed them to Muslims and did my best to treat them with respect in the hope it got through their defences. (and judging by the huge amount of positive emails, PMs, comments I got it worked - and still works!!)

    Abbas AbduNour does the same. He treats Muslims with respect and as intelligent people, speaking to them from within the Islamic tradition tradition.

    To me it's the difference between:

    1. Those who still cling to this "Them v Us" mentality and just want to vent their anger, insult, humiliate and strike out at Muslims. Preach amongst the converted so they can slap each other on the back and reinforce their own preconceptions.

    2. Those who actually care about Muslims and want to try to reach out to them and attempt to affect positive change for their sake - and the sake of humanity as a whole.

    Dare I say the difference between producing cartoons we know will achieve nothing other than insult and provoke Muslims - so we can then all point and laugh at how stupid and barbaric Muslims are. Or actually trying to do something positive to help our fellow human-beings to improve & be better.

  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1720 - January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    Alright, finally some work has been done. Wow, it's been a while, last edits look like they were in December...

    Anyways, so the first thing I did was re-arrange some parts of the book and added new sections. Click here for spreadsheet with progress and links to other pages.

    * Book Cover. I quickly created this, but if there is anyone with good design skills unlike me, I'd like to see a proper cover done.
    * Disclaimer Page This is found in most books where the copyright info is located. I suggest that we use a CC BY-NC license which allows redistribution and modification as long as the authors name's remain intact and not for commercial purpose.
    * Re-order the preface and added the translator's note. The order is Foreword, Translator's note and Introduction.
    * I suggest that we add a page in the appendix that has a short list of Arabic terminology often used by the author. One that comes to mind for example is "mufassirun" (exegetes). If anyone is good at writing definitions please volunteer! Otherwise, I'll take care of it.
    * Added an addendum section which will contain the reviews that Abu Ali has translated so far.
    * Added a back cover page. Suggestions needed, not sure what to put there. 

    A few other things that are on my mind right now:
    * Hassan, do you want to put your real name on this? Or is the pseudonym Abu Ali fine?
    * I checked for the domain www.myordealwiththequran.com and it is available. I can buy the domain from my own pocket (it's really cheap these days), and I already have hosting anyways. Does anyone want to show off their web design skills and make a little page where someone could download the book and read a few quotes/summaries/whatever, and maybe a YouTube video?
    * Is the CEMB officially affiliated with this project? Could we use CEMB as a publisher name?
    * There's a resource on the MobileRead Wiki for publishing ebooks online. Some folks at StackExchange also discussed this. This could be helpful to make the book more accessible. If we ever wanted to actually print copies of the book, maybe we could have some sort of crowd-funding effort. (printing isn't free...)
    * I still want to get a proper Arabic publication out to. There are a few sources of the Arabic text now (instead of the horrible scans), like the blogspot link Hassan found or the mystery word version found on a Christian missionary website. It would just involve a bit of copy/pasting, and changing the fonts, and what not. It's not necessary for the Arabic version to have all the additions of the translated version...
    * If the author is famous enough someone could probably find his identity by Googling his biographical details. It would be nice to get in touch with him, if he is still alive, and let him know about this.
    * Does anyone know if the Arabic version ever got published? Or if what we have is a leaked draft. I vaguely recall the Arabic title with a mark that says "testing copy" or "draft copy" or something...
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1721 - January 22, 2015, 08:47 PM
    Something else, once I'm done the formatting, I'll give access to volunteer reviewers to the Google Drive folder. I'll make a little tutorial that shows you how to Google Drive's suggested edits mode. Hassan, I'll need to get in touch with you so I can show you how to access Google Drive, and approve, reject the suggested edits, and also edit the book.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1722 - January 22, 2015, 09:17 PM
    Excellent work DS - I am so grateful to you  Afro

    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    * Book Cover. I quickly created this, but if there is anyone with good design skills unlike me, I'd like to see a proper cover done.


    That looks absolutely awesome to me!! I love it!!

    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    * Disclaimer Page This is found in most books where the copyright info is located. I suggest that we use a CC BY-NC license which allows redistribution and modification as long as the authors name's remain intact and not for commercial purpose.


    That looks perfect!

    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    * Re-order the preface and added the translator's note. The order is Foreword, Translator's note and Introduction.


    Great stuff. I really like the way you've solved the problem of the translators notes - which I left as just a load of these * on each page I translated lol - Good work!! Afro

    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    * I suggest that we add a page in the appendix that has a short list of Arabic terminology often used by the author. One that comes to mind for example is "mufassirun" (exegetes). If anyone is good at writing definitions please volunteer! Otherwise, I'll take care of it.


    It would be good if we could have a volunteer for this - to take some of the load from DS (and me). I don't think it's a big task - just a list of the commonly used "Muslim-speak" words used in the book. I don't there is an awful lot.

    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    * Added an addendum section which will contain the reviews that Abu Ali has translated so far.
    * Added a back cover page. Suggestions needed, not sure what to put there.


    I think the back page with the quotes and blurb looks great to me.

    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    * Hassan, do you want to put your real name on this? Or is the pseudonym Abu Ali fine?


    You can put my real name: Hassan Radwan. I think it will help the book.

    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    * I checked for the domain www.myordealwiththequran.com and it is available. I can buy the domain from my own pocket (it's really cheap these days), and I already have hosting anyways.


    That would be awesome! (But only if you have the means.)

    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    Does anyone want to show off their web design skills and make a little page where someone could download the book and read a few quotes/summaries/whatever, and maybe a YouTube video?


    Volunteers please!! (I know nothing about web design at all.

    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    * Is the CEMB officially affiliated with this project? Could we use CEMB as a publisher name?


    I know Maryam published something on the official website about it - way back when we started and I'm sure she'll be on board if someone could communicate with her about what we are doing.

    Billy could you or one of the other admins/mods contact Maryam about this, please?

    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    * There's a resource on the MobileRead Wiki for publishing ebooks online. Some folks at StackExchange also discussed this. This could be helpful to make the book more accessible. If we ever wanted to actually print copies of the book, maybe we could have some sort of crowd-funding effort. (printing isn't free...)


    This is outside my sphere of expertise - so perhaps someone else could advise about this.

    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    * I still want to get a proper Arabic publication out to. There are a few sources of the Arabic text now (instead of the horrible scans), like the blogspot link Hassan found or the mystery word version found on a Christian missionary website. It would just involve a bit of copy/pasting, and changing the fonts, and what not. It's not necessary for the Arabic version to have all the additions of the translated version...


    That would be great.

    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    * If the author is famous enough someone could probably find his identity by Googling his biographical details. It would be nice to get in touch with him, if he is still alive, and let him know about this.
    * Does anyone know if the Arabic version ever got published? Or if what we have is a leaked draft. I vaguely recall the Arabic title with a mark that says "testing copy" or "draft copy" or something...


    As I think has been mentioned before (somewhere) in this thread - the author is unknown. I have tried googling him but I have not found anything we don't already have about him.

    I strongly suspect this is not his real name and I also suspect some of the details about his life may have been changed slightly to hide his identity - which is of course understandable, but as I have said will no doubt be a source of criticism.

    The book says Nuskha Tajribiyyah (or is it Tab'ah Tajribiyyah) - in both cases it basically means it is a draft - and I remember someone in the thread said it was refused publication and banned - but I have no more info on this.

    Would anyone like to do some detective work on this and see if we can find anything about him and whether we can contact him?
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1723 - January 22, 2015, 09:18 PM
    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:47 PM
    Something else, once I'm done the formatting, I'll give access to volunteer reviewers to the Google Drive folder. I'll make a little tutorial that shows you how to Google Drive's suggested edits mode. Hassan, I'll need to get in touch with you so I can show you how to access Google Drive, and approve, reject the suggested edits, and also edit the book.


    I'll PM you my Skype - do you use skype?
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1724 - January 22, 2015, 09:19 PM
    To others - please check the last 4 posts and please help if you can  Smiley
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1725 - January 22, 2015, 09:31 PM
    Look at what I just found, it seems like there is a French version of the book already.

    Book review of the french version:
    http://www.annaqed.com/en/book-review/my-torments-with-the-koran

    Another blog post from God knows where:
    http://royalisme.merl1.over-blog.com/article-abdelrahman-marhaba-73859478.html

    Sounds familiar right?

    Quote
    Début de notre cycle de formation sur l'islam sunnite majoritaire, par l'ex-imâm Abdelrahman Marhaba, diplômé de l'université islamique d'al-Azhar et de Fouad Ier (Le Caire). Ce docteur en Sorbonne, après avoir enseigné l'islam de nombreuses années et prêché dans des grandes mosquées arabes, s'est détourné de l'islamisme, doctrine de haine allant contre sa conscience. Son livre Confessions d'un imam, disponible en version française aux éditions de Paris, est une analyse scrupuleuse du Coran qu'il juge incohérent, de la Sunna et de la vie du "prophète", abordant tout les sujets qui fâchent.

    My translation (the original sentences are run-ons...):
    The beginning of our instruction on Sunni Islam (the majority) from the ex-Imam Abdelrahman Marhaba, graduate from the Islamic University of Al-Azhar and Fouad I (Cairo). This doctorate holder from Sorbonne, after teaching Islam for numerous years and preaching it at large Arab Mosques, has diverted away from Islamism, a doctrine of hate that went against his conscience. His book "Confessions of an Imam", available in a french translation at the "Éditions de Paris" publisher, is a fastidious analysis of the Quran of which he considers incoherent, the sunnah and the life of the "prophet", covering all subjects that make him angry`.


    Looks like the book got published in French:
    http://livre.fnac.com/a2519014/Abdelrahman-Marhaba-Confessions-d-un-imam

    The name used this time is:
    Abdelrahman Marhaba.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1726 - January 22, 2015, 09:37 PM
    Quote from: Abu Ali on January 22, 2015, 09:18 PM
    I'll PM you my Skype - do you use skype?


    Yes, I do actually. I'll send you my Skype username.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1727 - January 22, 2015, 09:38 PM
    That's interesting!! Yes that's the introduction.

    I just googled "Abdelrahman Marhaba" and all the links are to french sites about the book which inj French has been called:

    CONFESSIONS d’UN IMAM
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1728 - January 22, 2015, 09:43 PM
    I assume the French translator decided to change the name from Abbas Abdul-Nour - not sure why though as I suspect Abbas Abdul-Nour is itself an alias.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1729 - January 22, 2015, 10:03 PM
    Quote from: Abu Ali on January 22, 2015, 09:43 PM
    I assume the French translator decided to change the name from Abbas Abdul-Nour - not sure why though as I suspect Abbas Abdul-Nour is itself an alias.


    An alias of an alias! The translator's name also seems to be an alias... can't find anything about Maurice Salacrou...
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1730 - January 22, 2015, 10:12 PM
    All these aliases detract from the credibility of the book. It shouldn't really as it should be judged on what it says - but sadly it will detract - which is why I feel I must put my real name.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1731 - January 22, 2015, 10:19 PM
    I'm having trouble signing into my Skype account.

    Not sure what's going on with it.

    Will try to sort it and get back to you.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1732 - January 22, 2015, 11:08 PM
    DS please delete my Skype account name as I think it has been hacked. I'm going to make a new one.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1733 - January 23, 2015, 01:03 AM
    Good work, doubter_seeker9. Afro

    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    * Is the CEMB officially affiliated with this project? Could we use CEMB as a publisher name?

    I'm sure the CEMB would be honoured to be affiliated with this project, but we can double-check with Maryam. Bear in mind she's a fearless fighter..
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1734 - January 23, 2015, 01:40 AM
    Alright, so my detective skills aren't very good and I don't want to go to far as to respect the author's privacy.

    Anyways, so I actually found the number for "Les Éditions de Paris", I thought they were some massive publisher because of their name, but they are tiny. They had no number on their website, nothing on the France YellowPages. I took their domain, and looked up the whois database, and voilà, a number showed up.

    Picked up the phone, and rang the number, and a french man answers the phone. I confirmed that it was indeed the publisher, but when I asked about the book, the guy seemed to get nervous. He said that they are not the editors of the book. I told him that it was on their website, and he "no, no, it's a mistake" and hung up.

    Very intriguing... I'll leave this to someone else as after this I'm entering the 'creepy' zone. Not my kind of deal.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1735 - January 23, 2015, 12:05 PM
    Be careful, DS - you'll have the FBI, MI5 and whatever the French equivalent is, after you.

    Since the Charlie-Hebdo attack everyone is understandably on high-alert.

    So some guy phoning a French publisher and asking whether they are responsible for an anti-Islam* book will look very suspicious - I'm not surprised the guy seemed nervous.


    *That's how some will see it.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1736 - January 23, 2015, 01:33 PM
    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM
    * Is the CEMB officially affiliated with this project? Could we use CEMB as a publisher name?


    Hi doubter_seeker,

    Maryam replied to Billy and says yes, CEMB will be 100% behind this and she will do anything we need doing - CEMB can publish and publicise and we can use CEMB logo - basically whatever we need!!  Afro

    Would you mind if I ask either you (or perhaps a volunteer) to liaise with Maryam directly about what you require:

    Her email address is maryamnamazie@googlemail.com.

    Because I'm no expert on what is required for publishing or what you require exactly - plus I am going to be away for a short while and also have a lot on my hands at the moment.

    Would that be OK?
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1737 - January 23, 2015, 02:29 PM
    Quote from: Abu Ali on January 23, 2015, 12:05 PM
    Since the Charlie-Hebdo attack everyone is understandably on high-alert.

    That explains everything, can't believe that didn't come to mind.

    Quote from: Abu Ali on January 23, 2015, 01:33 PM
    Maryam replied to Billy and says yes, CEMB will be 100% behind this and she will do anything we need doing - CEMB can publish and publicise and we can use CEMB logo - basically whatever we need!!  Afro


    Perfect, that means I can use them as a publisher name and everything in the book now. Will make things look a bit more professional, etc.

    Quote from: Abu Ali on January 23, 2015, 01:33 PM
    Would you mind if I ask either you (or perhaps a volunteer) to liaise with Maryam directly about what you require:

    Her email address is maryamnamazie@googlemail.com.

    Because I'm no expert on what is required for publishing or what you require exactly


    I'll get in touch with her and see what happens. The publishing will happen later of course once everything is done but I already started my research on it. Smashwords is a free service (and they seem to allow free books) that publish ebooks on iBooks, Barnes and Nobles and a bunch of other popular distributors except Amazon. Project Gutenberg also has a self publishing press for free books. From what it seems, Amazon does not usually allow free ebooks to be self-published.

    Quote from: Abu Ali on January 23, 2015, 01:33 PM
    - plus I am going to be away for a short while and also have a lot on my hands at the moment.

    Would that be OK?


    That's fine. You've already done so much work on the translation, I don't think you need to fill up your plate with anything more than that. There's just formatting and proofreading left. Your last step would have to be to approve/reject the proofreading changes and do a last pass on the whole book yourself, and then you're done!

    I'll then just have to then polish the book, and have the final specimen in .doc format (what most publishers want) and convert it to a few eBook formats (will probably require some cleanup and testing). Looks like I'll be taking care of the publishing too in that case.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1738 - January 23, 2015, 03:31 PM
    Excellent stuff ds.

    I'll let maryam know you'll email her at some point about all this.  Afro
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1739 - January 23, 2015, 03:41 PM
    OK I just emailed her that you will contact her at some point  Afro
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