Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
Reply #31 - May 20, 2010, 02:47 PM
Firstly Johnny, you didn't answer my question. Try again please.
Secondly, you say science is the tool I use. Of course it is. What makes you think your tool called Islam is better. Science is the best tool we have. You yourself have faith in it. The computer you are staring at right now was built by science, and the all the technology around you e.g. phones, TV, radios, lightbulbs, microwaves, cameras, electricity etc. Why do you have faith in the aeroplane flying safely at 30000ft?
How come your religion (or any other religion) couldn't build all this technology?
And by the way, science is a method of reaching the truth. If you want to call this a religion, fine. It seems to be the only religion that is building all the technology in the world. Hmmmm...
I don’t think you understand my point here. There is a difference between islam and science. Science can be used as a tool to prove a hypothethese. It doesn’t dictate how you live life. Islam uses science as you have mentioned, but you have only mentioned technology in your examples, infact many scienctific breakthoughs came from muslims, chemistry as you many know is a Arabic word. So I do not have any problem with science. However even before science there needs to be thought! Thought as a human being is the most fundamental of things. Even science is dwarfed by thought! The ability to use ones mind to assess the reality to come to conclusions. Using tools such as science and arts to come to certain conclusions.
What is thought?
Thought is a cognitive feature, however before thought you must certain conditions for it to happened.
1) reality
2) senses- to pick up reality
3) working brain- cant be mad
4) previous information- be taught about what something is.
If any of these 4 are missing then the ability to think will not be there.
Secondly, just by the mere fact that you can think doesn’t mean you will be able to come to any conclusions, you must excert yourself to find answers, this is where scientific thought may come in.
Types of thought-
1)Shallow- someone who doesn’t think deeply about things, who may give answers from the top of his head without research, example would be if you want to buy a house, you buy a house without looking at local amienaites, price, if it is suited. You just baught the houe because you like the look for it. This is shallow thought.
2) deep thought- this would be thought that would include scienctific thought, and would include experimenting on things to find things out about something. So in our example when buying a house, would look at price, amenities, schools, type of people living in the area etc. this type of thought is still not sufficient to know if there is a creator. Because you may be able to tell me how certain things work arounf the universe, but I want to know something deeper than that. I wan to know where this unicverse came from.
3) enlightend thought- this would go beyond deep thought- this would include eep thought, but would question how? How did the house get there, who built the house? Etc in the same way this is what we need to do.
I have seen from some on this forum, they conclude to disbelief because they were treated badly, by a muslim, and hence they don’t want anything to do with it, this is their prerogative, but it is shallow, in thought. There are those who have investigated a little bit more, and they seem to think that science is the only thing! And again reject islam based upon, something that can neither prove nor disprove God. This is what you have. You have placed all your bets of a prcess that tells you how things work, but not where they came from. Science is limited to labs, and experiments. There are scientist who believe in theories, but there is no concrete proof of certain theories!! Ie /big bang, evolution. For you to belive in these is worse than muslim who belive in islam purely on faith.
To prove the existence of a creator, you must study the rality, you can conclude from the study that things a re limited weak and dependent. The computer we type apon, is limited to the RAM, is limited to the keys on the keyboard, is limited to the fonts, height weight, infact it is limited in everyway. It is dependent on the electricity that is needs to run, the components that make it. with out these denpendencies the computer would be a computer. Everything you see and touch and sense is also limited, because by definition you are limited and therefore you can only sense that which is limited. Therefore the unverse is limited.
With things being limited, they need something to start them off. So hp, dell, IBM, Lenovo< Toshiba, might have made you computer, in the same way, it is an unlimited being that has created the universe.
This is definite, there is no doubt in this. It is thought! It is rational! It is simple!
How do you know u have a brain, you haven’t seen it! you know from the your actions! The effect of the cause!!
I assume you as a Muslim believe in a personal God. Can you provide solid positive evidence for all the claims that Islam makes. Science produces evidence for all its claims and makes those claims with the level of conviction that is proportional to the strength of the evidence. So if you claim that there are Jinns, for example, you have to provide positive evidence that they exist. Otherwise it would be hypocritical for you to laugh off claims that fairies exist (or witchcraft etc etc).
Muslims hold a vast plethora of absurd beliefs such as:
• a personal God who is: omnibenevolent, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient etc (and btw some of these are self-contradictory)- All I know is that there is a creator who created everything! Finish! About his attributes I do not! Accept that which he has told us!
• creationism (in particular that humans came from Adam and Eve)- this is in the quran, the quran can be proven by the miracle of the language, it is beyond humanly possible for any humans to come with the quran
• heaven, hell and life after death- contained in the quran, the quran is rational, therefore whatever is in it is correct, may not be able to show it to you, but if the quran can be proved to be from the creator, then this wont matter
• angels, the devil and jinns- same as above
• devine predestination/fate- same as above
• the day of judgement- same as above
• the evil eye- same as above(what is your understanding of this)
• the miracles of all the prophets- can be proven
• the ascention and second coming of Jesus as well as his virgin birth- within the quran
• punishment of the grave – in the quran
• the existence of a soul – what is soul?
• and many more...
If you want us to believe all this, please provide some proper POSITIVE evidence for each and every one of these claims.
I mean, in science, if someone wants to claim that Bigfoot exists, they have to provide a specimen for other scientists to scrutinise. Otherwise we assume it doesn't exist.
did William shakespere exist?
And here is the Michael Shermer "Baloney Detection Kit" video which will might teach you the difference between good evidence and bad evidence
There is no God but Allah(swt) and Muhammad(saw) is his messenger.
Topic: Allah continuously maintains the world