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 Topic: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships

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  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #150 - June 01, 2010, 11:52 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 01, 2010, 11:42 PM
    That is one way of phrasing it. However as I said to someone else, if I get an axe handle and use it to beat the crap out of you will you then tell me that sticks aren't worth worrying about?


    True, but you can't blame anyone for defending themselves against armed soldiers illegally boarding their ship in the middle of the night.

    The Israelis shouldn't have gone in like that - they're always playing the hard-man cowboys charging in and fuck the consequences.

    9 people were killed as a result.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #151 - June 01, 2010, 11:55 PM
    Quote from: HighOctane on June 01, 2010, 11:48 PM
    A few weapons/things we can see in the video used to attack the soldiers:
    - metal pole
    - stun grenade
    - firebomb
    - mob like beating


    You must have amazing eye-sight!
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #152 - June 01, 2010, 11:57 PM
    The famous pro-Palestinian activist, the chairman of Friends of Al Aqsa, Ismail Adam Patel, based in Leicester was on the ship.

    It was front page in the local paper here in Leicester.

    http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/Leicestershire-aid-worker-Gaza-strip-ship/article-2234871-detail/article.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qjN6VfQFrM&feature=player_embedded
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #153 - June 01, 2010, 11:57 PM
    So the video isn't clear enough even for the pole or the small bomb or the mob like gathering? (In the former video posted?)

    Well here is another. This one is actually not that clear ... but anyway ...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLrX7fznVgI
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  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #154 - June 02, 2010, 12:01 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 01, 2010, 11:52 PM
    True, but you can't blame anyone for defending themselves against armed soldiers illegally boarding their ship in the middle of the night.

    The Israelis shouldn't have gone in like that - they're always playing the hard-man cowboys charging in and fuck the consequences.

    9 people were killed as a result.

    Hass, this was the sixth ship boarded. Nobody got killed on any of the other ships because nobody was stupid enough to try to beat the crap out of the soldiers. It was only the IHH fuckwits on the sixth ship that got into trouble. If they had behaved like everyone else there most likely would not have been any deaths or injuries. 

    Oh and apparently the boarding may not have been illegal. It doesn't appear to be definite one way or the other. This means the "illegal" thing isn't really relevant.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #155 - June 02, 2010, 12:03 AM
    Quote from: HighOctane on June 01, 2010, 11:57 PM
    So the video isn't clear enough even for the pole or the small bomb or the mob like gathering? (In the former video posted?)

    Well here is another. This one is actually not that clear ... but anyway ...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLrX7fznVgI


    Sorry, can you remind me how many soldiers were killed by this pre-planned, well armed and organized ambush against these poor innocent soldiers illegally boarding a ship in the middle of the night?
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #156 - June 02, 2010, 12:05 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 02, 2010, 12:03 AM
    Sorry, can you remind me how many soldiers were killed by this pre-planned, well armed and organized ambush against these poor innocent soldiers illegally boarding a ship in the middle of the night?

    Ok, so what you're saying is that there must be some preset threshold number of dead soldiers before the rest of them are allowed to fire in self defence. What is that threshold, exactly?

    And, as I just mentioned, there is no certainty that the boarding was illegal.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #157 - June 02, 2010, 12:06 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 02, 2010, 12:01 AM
    Hass, this was the sixth ship boarded. Nobody got killed on any of the other ships because nobody was stupid enough to try to beat the crap out of the soldiers. It was only the IHH fuckwits on the sixth ship that got into trouble. If they had behaved like everyone else there most likely would not have been any deaths or injuries. 


    Yeah - if only everyone put their hands up when soldiers board their ships everything would be fine.

    It's their fault 9 people are dead.

    Nothing to do with the way the poor Israelis handled it.

    Jeez - why does everyone hate Israel - they just want to love everyone.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #158 - June 02, 2010, 12:08 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 02, 2010, 12:05 AM
    Ok, so what you're saying is that there must be some preset threshold number of dead soldiers before the rest of them are allowed to fire in self defence. What is that threshold, exactly?

    And, as I just mentioned, there is no certainty that the boarding was illegal.


    I never said anything about threshold - that post was to HO who seems to imply that they came armed and ready to ambush soldiers.

    Some decided to defend themselves against the boarding of soldiers -  they have every right to do so!


  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #159 - June 02, 2010, 12:09 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 02, 2010, 12:06 AM
    Yeah - if only everyone put their hands up when soldiers board their ships everything would be fine.

    Apparently. Seems to have worked for everyone else.


    Quote
    It's their fault 9 people are dead.

    Nothing to do with the way the poor Israelis handled it.

    Jeez - why does everyone hate Israel - they just want to love everyone.

    I'm not saying none of it is Israel's fault. Obviously it is. They handled this very badly IMO. However, once the soldiers had been ordered to board and were attacked for boarding I am not at all sure that firing in self defence wasn't justified.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #160 - June 02, 2010, 12:12 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 02, 2010, 12:09 AM
    I am not at all sure that firing in self defence wasn't justified.


    And you know it was in "Self Defence" for a fact do you?
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #161 - June 02, 2010, 12:16 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 02, 2010, 12:09 AM
    Apparently. Seems to have worked for everyone else.


    Yeah, everyone should put their hands up when Israeli soldiers attack or it's their fault if they get killed.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #162 - June 02, 2010, 12:16 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 02, 2010, 12:12 AM
    And you know it was in "Self Defence" for a fact do you?

    Obviously not, or I wouldn't have said the following:

    Quote from: osmanthus on June 02, 2010, 12:09 AM
    ....I am not at all sure that firing in self defence wasn't justified.

    In other words, I don't know enough to assume that it was or wasn't. You, on the other hand, apparently know enough to assume that it wasn't. How do you know this?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #163 - June 02, 2010, 12:17 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 02, 2010, 12:16 AM
    You, on the other hand, apparently know enough to assume that it wasn't. How do you know this?


    Nope. I'm saying they have the right to defend themselves from attack.

    The fault is with the Isrealis for going in, in this way even if they were killed in self-defence.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #164 - June 02, 2010, 12:20 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 02, 2010, 12:17 AM
    Nope. I'm saying they have the right to defend themselves from attack.

    The fault is with the Isrealis for going in, in this way even if they were killed in self-defence.

    Ok, but that is the fault of the guys giving the orders, not the fault of the guys in the middle of the shitfight.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #165 - June 02, 2010, 12:22 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 02, 2010, 12:20 AM
    Ok, but that is the fault of the guys giving the orders, not the fault of the guys in the middle of the shitfight.


    Agreed.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #166 - June 02, 2010, 12:24 AM
    Which has basically been my main point all along.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #167 - June 02, 2010, 12:25 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 02, 2010, 12:03 AM
    Sorry, can you remind me how many soldiers were killed by this pre-planned, well armed and organized ambush against these poor innocent soldiers illegally boarding a ship in the middle of the night?


    Perhaps some clarification here, when I wrote "mob like gathering" I meant is it not possible to see several men surrounding closely to one of the (I assume) soliders? It is a pretty wicked attack, that's all. Best evidence so far as I can see. No doubt there will be more. Hopefully clearer ones.
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  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #168 - June 02, 2010, 12:25 AM
    is there no way to immobilize opponents without injury or deaths?

    if there were , it would be the right way to gain control without giving the other side the moral upper hand.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #169 - June 02, 2010, 12:33 AM
    Do these people seem like terrorists to you?

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7141720.ece
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #170 - June 02, 2010, 12:35 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 02, 2010, 12:22 AM
    Agreed.

    Ok, next question. What if it turns out that the boarding was legal under international law? This isn't a rhetorical question. From what I can gather it's a distinct possibility.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #171 - June 02, 2010, 12:43 AM
    Quote from: Abood on June 02, 2010, 12:33 AM
    Do these people seem like terrorists to you?

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7141720.ece

    Does this woman look like a terrorist to you?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #172 - June 02, 2010, 12:46 AM
    Reading her bio on Wikipedia makes it sound like she was quite the candidate to become one.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #173 - June 02, 2010, 12:48 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 02, 2010, 12:43 AM
    Does this woman look like a terrorist to you?

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    You are cracking the whip dear osmanthus

    So pick the names from here for me..

     

    and tell me who look like terrorists??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #174 - June 02, 2010, 12:56 AM
    With all due respect Hassan this is not about anybody's right to resist illegal boarding nor is this about  proving a point. Fact is that 9 lives were lost for a PR stunt that everybody will forget in a couple of days (apart from families of those who were killed or injured that is). All this could have been and should have been avoided. What this really is about is a lack of common sense. On all sides. Nine people paid with their lives for it.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #175 - June 02, 2010, 01:01 AM
    Quote from: Abood on June 02, 2010, 12:46 AM
    Reading her bio on Wikipedia makes it sound like she was quite the candidate to become one.

    Exactly. Yet she looks like any sweet little hijabi. She probably was any sweet little hijabi 99% of the time. So, what does a terrorist look like? Until you can define that you have no point.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #176 - June 02, 2010, 01:06 AM
    "Look like"? No, sir, the article I posted has some bios of people, not photos. That's exactly my point: they hardly seem like candidates for terror attacks. The only thing that makes them "suspect" is their drive to aid Palestinians.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #177 - June 02, 2010, 01:11 AM
    You asked "Do these people look like terrorists?" so I looked at the pic at the head of the page. After reading the article I see your point but that wasn't a complete passenger list. As far as I know nobody has claimed that everybody on board that ship (or even any of them, come to think of it) was a terrorist as such. There were some members of a well known Islamist group with strong ties to Hamas though.

    Ok, how's this for a headline: "Members of Islamist group linked to Hamas shot after attacking IDF personnel during a perfectly legal boarding operation"?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #178 - June 02, 2010, 01:19 AM
    The whole "strong ties" argument is bogus. The US government has committed dozens of terrorist acts; does that mean any member of any organization linked to it is suspect? Since when can guilt be derived solely from association?

    The only reason people use the "link" argument is because they don't really have any other way to justify accusing people and detaining them. Why can't they prove that the people themselves are guilty--you know, like the case in the judicial system?
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #179 - June 02, 2010, 01:24 AM
    Quote from: Abood on June 02, 2010, 01:19 AM
    The whole "strong ties" argument is bogus. The US government has committed dozens of terrorist acts; does that mean any member of any organization linked to it is suspect?

    Well, now that you mention it.

    Quote
    Since when can guilt be derived solely from association?

    Didn't say it was. I was just providing an example of a different headline that may well be as accurate as any of the others currently doing the rounds, and admittedly I'm playing devil's advocate on this. To be honest I think the most accurate headline would be something along the lines of "Ten dead and dozens injured after a bunch of fuckwits (some IDF, some not) put their hoofs in it big time".
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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