Moneylessness

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- Absurdist
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #60 - July 23, 2010, 12:16 PM

Scandinavian countries are not socialist and have never been. They're social democracies.

As for communism only working in small scale: that's kind of the point; communities and workplaces would be organized and governed locally.

If you think socialism/communism doesn't work, I advice you to read about something such as the Spanish Revolution during the Civil War. It was very successful on all accounts except defense (damn anarchists not wanting to organize properly--plus the fact that Stalin was being the sectarian dickwad that he always was). The anarchist strongholds (mostly Barcelona, but also the regions of Catalonia and Aragon in general) had about 100% employment and productivity something like 10 times that of the rest of Spain (I might be mistaken about the exact figure, but they were basically much more productive).

You could start by reading George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia, but there are dozens of books and essays written about the Revolution. I actually have a book about it that I am yet to read, called The Spanish Anarchists: The Heroic Years 1868-1936, by Murray Bookchin.

Anyway, here's a quote from Orwell:

"I had dropped more or less by chance into the only community of any size in Western Europe where political consciousness and disbelief in capitalism were more normal than their opposites. Up here in Aragon one was among tens of thousands of people, mainly though not entirely of working-class origin, all living at the same level and mingling on terms of equality. In theory it was perfect equality, and even in practice it was not far from it. There is a sense in which it would be true to say that one was experiencing a foretaste of Socialism, by which I mean that the prevailing mental atmosphere was that of Socialism. Many of the normal motives of civilized life--snobbishness, money-grubbing, fear of the boss, etc.--had simply ceased to exist. The ordinary class-division of society had disappeared to an extent that is almost unthinkable in the money-tainted air of England; there was no one there except the peasants and ourselves, and no one owned anyone else as his master."

Anarchism is also in practice today in the Mexican state of Chiapas due to the Zapatista uprising of 1994. You could read about that as well.
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #61 - July 23, 2010, 12:37 PM

Here's a documentary with interviews of survivors of the Spanish Revolution:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGBnAPKN9Oo
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #62 - July 23, 2010, 01:56 PM

@Z10: I don't get it. :/

You said you would help to, say, build a hospital. But not every person will be needed for that, people will have different jobs. Some jobs will be harder than others, some people will work harder than others. People aren't uniform machines, they have different wants and different ethics, the smallest difference could trigger a snowball effect.
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #63 - July 23, 2010, 07:11 PM

By the way, there'd still be money in a socialist economy. Only in a communist society would there be no money, and communism would only exist if there were infinite resources and thus no need for an economy.
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #64 - July 23, 2010, 07:52 PM

Quote from: Abood on July 23, 2010, 07:11 PM
By the way, there'd still be money in a socialist economy. Only in a communist society would there be no money, and communism would only exist if there were infinite resources and thus no need for an economy.

well you two extremes as an example.. One Russia with few people and lots of resources and you have China with lots of people and limited resources .. both are/were commie driven carts..

Any I like this news .. This sounds like commie news.. news in the dawn says

India develops 35-dollar ‘laptop’ for schools and colleges

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/e2b83a804350c8a1bde7bd88bda3c05b/laptop_AFP_608.jpg?MOD=AJPERES

Quote
(Clicky for piccy!)

NEW DELHI: India has come up with a 35-dollar touch-screen “laptop” a computing prototype that it aims to make available to students from elementary schools to universities.

The gadget, developed by the elite Indian Institute of Technology and the Indian Institute of Science, is part of a push to give students a better education and technical skills needed to boost India’s economic growth.

The first users are expected to be university students with introduction of the Linux-based computing device targeted for next year.

The ministry is going to install broadband Internet at all of its 22,000 colleges so students can use the 1,500-rupee device, government spokeswoman Mamta Verma told AFP on Friday in New Delhi.

Ha!.. 35 dollars is ~ 3000 Rupees.., I wonder whether it can open CEMB/FFI forums or is it a LUNCH BOX??

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I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #65 - July 23, 2010, 07:55 PM

Neither Russia nor China were/are actually communist societies. They're called Communist countries simply because they were governed by Communist parties.
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #66 - July 23, 2010, 07:59 PM

Quote from: Abood on July 23, 2010, 07:55 PM
Neither Russia nor China were/are actually communist societies. They're called Communist countries simply because they were governed by Communist parties.

Really Abood? you mean to say they are like ISLAMIC NATIONS., use Islam for Power same as Commies use ..Marx-Lenin-Mao for power..

Ha! you have a point there.. Bow about Cuba??

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #67 - July 23, 2010, 08:01 PM

Communism never existed anywhere in the world. China, Russia, Cuba, etc., were/are socialist economies (and even this point is contested). Communism can't exist without the entire world being communist. Like I said, it means that a society has no economy, which can't happen in a capitalist world.
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #68 - July 23, 2010, 08:14 PM

Quote from: Abood on July 23, 2010, 08:01 PM
Communism never existed anywhere in the world. China, Russia, Cuba, etc., were/are socialist economies (and even this point is contested). Communism can't exist without the entire world being communist. Like I said, it means that a society has no economy, which can't happen in a capitalist world.

Well that sounds same as Islam. unless whole world become Islam, Islma can not exist.. lol..

Penny less economy.. or penis less economy.. the Gold economy.. Allah economy. Quran Economy. .. Zaid Hamid says... RIBA..riba..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MikFYbcJMg

Damn JUICE.. Ruined whole world.. Zaid is good..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #69 - July 23, 2010, 08:22 PM

Z10 and Zoomie... heres a two part documentary about "The Farm"
the most successful commune founded by "St. Stephen".
Here is their story. Enjoy

Part !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdOdLEVU54o&feature=player_embedded

Part II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT3U-IYob8E&feature=player_embedded

When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #70 - July 23, 2010, 08:23 PM

Quote from: Abood on July 23, 2010, 08:01 PM
Communism never existed anywhere in the world. China, Russia, Cuba, etc., were/are socialist economies (and even this point is contested). Communism can't exist without the entire world being communist. Like I said, it means that a society has no economy, which can't happen in a capitalist world.

+1

no such existance of TRUE, PURE communism. Winds up being dictatorships, and never EVER
balanced for the well being of ALL

When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
Helen Keller
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #71 - July 23, 2010, 11:48 PM

That has nothing to do with what I said. I said nothing against the socialist countries. All I said is that communism can't exist without a world revolution, not because it'll otherwise be bad, but because it's otherwise impossible.

A socialist society, on the other hand, can exist in a dominantly capitalist world, but it needs to have strong allies and spend a lot on defense. And that's exactly communism can't exist if the dominant ideology was capitalism; communism is statelessness.
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #72 - July 24, 2010, 01:42 AM

Quote from: Abood on July 23, 2010, 11:48 PM
That has nothing to do with what I said. I said nothing against the socialist countries. All I said is that communism can't exist without a world revolution, not because it'll otherwise be bad, but because it's otherwise impossible.

A socialist society, on the other hand, can exist in a dominantly capitalist world, but it needs to have strong allies and spend a lot on defense. And that's exactly communism can't exist if the dominant ideology was capitalism; communism is statelessness.

So do you think Muhammad realized that and started his Islam in a similar way as communism?? Many Mullahs quote goody..goody stuff form Quran and hadith.. such as NO RACISM because Prophet Made Billal to sing azan on the Mosque roof? I wonder whether Prophet Had right hand possessed a Black lady? or married a black lady...He had some 23 women after the death of his first wife Khadija..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #73 - July 24, 2010, 01:52 AM

Muhammad was actually Marx.
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #74 - July 24, 2010, 01:59 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on July 24, 2010, 01:42 AM
So do you think Muhammad realized that and started his Islam in a similar way as communism?? Many Mullahs quote goody..goody stuff form Quran and hadith.. such as NO RACISM because Prophet Made Billal to sing azan on the Mosque roof? I wonder whether Prophet Had right hand possessed a Black lady? or married a black lady...He had some 23 women after the death of his first wife Khadija..

23??? I thought he was special and only got 11? LOL

When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
Helen Keller
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #75 - July 24, 2010, 08:22 AM

Quote from: Jinn and Tonic on July 24, 2010, 01:59 AM
23??? I thought he was special and only got 11? LOL

well 11 was officially married., rest of them were right hand possess .. And all this was done in that final 11 years of his Islamic Quest from the year of death of his first wife Khadija to his his death. That is age 52 to age 63 when he was apparently killed by a poisoned Lamb Chop from the hands hand of a Jewess.. That guy became Prophet SODOM and Mr. PBUH after the death of his first wife Khadija.

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- Jinn and Tonic
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Re: Moneylessness
Reply #76 - July 25, 2010, 11:29 PM

damn horn dog! Hell, at least Atilla the Hun treated his wives with some
dignity!

When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
Helen Keller
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