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Theme Changer

 Topic: convinced rational muslim

 (Read 46572 times)
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  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #60 - July 22, 2010, 10:46 PM

    Welcome to the forum



    As for fossil and DNA evidence, I don't believe these "evidences" are very conclusive, but rather are highly debatable.



    so basically what doesn't agree with your religious "beliefs" isn't really conclusive but highly debatable ?


    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #61 - July 22, 2010, 10:47 PM

    if my buns looked like that, i would be playing with them too lol

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #62 - July 22, 2010, 10:48 PM

    I DID scroll down, and didnt see any opposition to the
    "fatwah" radicals.  The fact that you even entertain
    those who hold these beliefs are what concern me.

    Scroll to the 24th post in that thread, datestamp: 07-16-2009, 06:17 PM

    Quote
    WHAT is your REAL purpose here?

    I already explained my purpose here at the beginning of the thread. I don't see how me being an admin of that site makes that any less credible.

    Kod,
    actually I started doubting some aspects of evolution back when I was an atheist.
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #63 - July 22, 2010, 10:49 PM

    actually I started doubting some aspects of evolution back when I was an atheist.

    Such as?  (interesting popcorn)

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #64 - July 22, 2010, 10:51 PM

    Such as?  (interesting popcorn)


    +1

    also what is your stand on sharia law

    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #65 - July 22, 2010, 10:51 PM

    Such as common descent. Just because some species evolved from one another doesn't mean all species evolved from the same one. I get why people might believe so, but if you're honest you'll accept that isn't scientific either.
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #66 - July 22, 2010, 10:54 PM

    My views on shariah laws,
    Well, I do believe that from a practical point of view the Islamic system is the best system possible. However, at the same time I believe that many of the laws you'll find in countries under the guise of shariah aren't actually Islamic. so the word shariah will probably have a negative conotation for most of you. So before you judge me, what I see as shariah might be something completely different as what you see as shariah
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #67 - July 22, 2010, 10:56 PM

    So you're against say Saudi bcoz they have banks that charge interest? and its a kingdom?
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #68 - July 22, 2010, 10:56 PM

    I don't believe that it would be just to allow some people into heaven.


    You didn't answer the question - why torture them for eternity?

    How does that make logical or rational sense?

    And how can he be the Most Merciful when he does that. I wouldn't do that to my worst enemy. So am I more Merciful that God?
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #69 - July 22, 2010, 11:00 PM

    Thamina
    I don't know if I'm actually against them, but I certainly don't consider them an example of how an Islamic country should be.

    Hassan,
    I think neither of us is capable of knowing what is in the heart of other people, and whether an eternal torture is fair or not. So does it make logical and rational sense? How would you even begin to measure wheter that makes logical and rational sense? Aren't you just judging based on emotions rather then based on logic?
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #70 - July 22, 2010, 11:01 PM

    Such as common descent. Just because some species evolved from one another doesn't mean all species evolved from the same one. I get why people might believe so, but if you're honest you'll accept that isn't scientific either.

    I dont know what you mean?  Also you may have missed my follow up questions on post 43.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #71 - July 22, 2010, 11:02 PM

    but are you ok with adultery laws , apostates laws , homosexuality laws , theft laws , blasphemy laws etc etc
    Such as common descent. Just because some species evolved from one another doesn't mean all species evolved from the same one. I get why people might believe so, but if you're honest you'll accept that isn't scientific either.


    but the further you the more you find common genes

    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #72 - July 22, 2010, 11:05 PM

    I think neither of us is capable of knowing what is in the heart of other people, and whether an eternal torture is fair or not. So does it make logical and rational sense? How would you even begin to measure wheter that makes logical and rational sense? Aren't you just judging based on emotions rather then based on logic?


    Nope, I'm basing it on logic. It makes no logical sense to keep someone alive for eternity, so as to keep roasting his skin off when it serves no purpose other than to make this creature suffer the most agonising pain.

    And then call oneself the Most Merciful of the Merciful.

    Please explain the logic in that?

    As someone who started this thread talking about being rational - this surely must bother you? No?
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #73 - July 22, 2010, 11:19 PM

    Stick a fork in him, Hassan. He's done.


    And I'd just like to say, hello and welcome, Mr Abdul Fattah  grin12
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #74 - July 22, 2010, 11:19 PM

    Islame,
    I replied to 43 in post 53

    Kod,
    I'm not so sure. To be honest I'm not very up to date with new scientific findings, but last time I checked (a few years ago) the genes of only 3 species had been decoded. I'd imagine the list be a bit bigger by now. But still I doubt they have enough to support your claim

    Hassan,
    You claim to Analyze that logically, but what rules of logic do you apply? You say it has no purpose but I would say, no, you don't see any purpose. I can think of many alternatives. You ask me to explain the logic in it, well I just think certain people will deserve it. I mean, think of the worst person in history, mass murderer dictotor, psychopath, whatever you can think of. Would youconsider it fair if such a person is allowed in heaven? And even then, do you know what in this person's heart? did he commit his attroceties knowing full well what they were, or was his logic somewhat warped he thought his actions are justifiable? are there softening circumstances to consider? It's practically impossible for us to judge these things. At best we can rely on emotions, and project our own thoughts and hearts onto others and assume they are similar. But we simply don't know
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #75 - July 22, 2010, 11:22 PM

    Nope, I'm basing it on logic. It makes no logical sense to keep someone alive for eternity, so as to keep roasting his skin off when it serves no purpose other than to make this creature suffer the most agonising pain.

    And then call oneself the Most Merciful of the Merciful.

    Please explain the logic in that?

    As someone who started this thread talking about being rational - this surely must bother you? No?

    @Abdul-Fattah:
    and for what crime?  not believing in God.  Why is belief a crime?  Belief is not even a choice.  I can say "I believe there is an elephant in my room", but would you seriously believe that I believe it?  No, you would say I'm crazy.  Believing is just something your brain does based on the information it gathers.  It is an honest assessment of the available data.  It would be unjust to punish someone for making an honest assessment -- let alone punish them in hellfire for eternity.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #76 - July 22, 2010, 11:26 PM

    Im not buying into this crap any longer,or entertaining circular illogic.  
    just here to watch boo's avitar

    send him to rasheed's thread, to read in its entirety, and then see if there
    are any new and refreshing debates.

    EDIT: *yawns*

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #77 - July 22, 2010, 11:31 PM

    As for the physical possibility of that certain state of mind. I think I might have mis-worded my viewpoints. I didn't mean to say that agnosticism is physically impossible, but rather that a bias-free mind is physically impossible.
    So even the agnostic has bias in his world-view. Perhaps not on the issue of the existence of God, but he will certainly have it on some issues.

    Who says agnostics are not biased?  

    Quote
    I don't believe in playing it safe and siting by the sidelines.

     
    I dont see it has being about playing safe, as I believe I am hell-bound with this position anyway.  I see it for being as honest and real with the facts & knowledge we have around us.

    Quote
    What struck me most was reading (a translation) of the Qur'an

    lol - it had the opposite affect on me.

    As for hitting the wife. Well I'm not an expert on fiqh. What this verse seems to be referring to, is hitting the hand with a siwak (a thin, light, soft stick used as toothbrush). and that it is a last resort, better not used.

    Thats selective interpretation imo.  In any case, do you believe that its still right to hit her even with a siwak when it does not say anywhere that a woman can do the same to a man?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #78 - July 22, 2010, 11:33 PM

    Im not buying into this crap any longer,or entertaining circular illogic.  
    just here to watch boo's avitar

    send him to rasheed's thread, to read in its entirety, and then see if there
    are any new and refreshing debates.

    EDIT: *yawns*

    Relax J&T, even if you disagree there's no need to get so het up & impolite during debates.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #79 - July 22, 2010, 11:35 PM

    I work as an industrial electrician.


    Hehe, cable trays?

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #80 - July 22, 2010, 11:35 PM

    You ask me to explain the logic in it, well I just think certain people will deserve it. I mean, think of the worst person in history, mass murderer dictotor, psychopath, whatever you can think of. Would youconsider it fair if such a person is allowed in heaven? And even then, do you know what in this person's heart? did he commit his attroceties knowing full well what they were, or was his logic somewhat warped he thought his actions are justifiable? are there softening circumstances to consider? It's practically impossible for us to judge these things. At best we can rely on emotions, and project our own thoughts and hearts onto others and assume they are similar. But we simply don't know


    Abdul-Fattah do you really think that any creature on this earth deserves to be kept alive for infinity just so they can be tortured?

    "Each time their skin is roasted we shall replace it with a new skin so that they may keep on tasting the punishment"

    God could just kill them - make them not exist - he doesn't have to put them in paradise if he doesn't thinks that not believing - in a God they can't see and find no conclusive evidence for - means they should be barred from heaven.

    He doesn't have to keep them alive for eternity to keep pouring molten lead into their skulls  and melting their intestines (all from Qur'an - it's very graphic).

    And I love it when Muslims defend this by talking about those who "commit his atrocities" - even if we were talking about Hitler - and the torturers where the Jews he put into the ovens - they would one day tire of seeing him scream in agony over and over and over again for thousands and millions and billions of years - and want to move on.

    But we are not talking about Hitler or rapists or mass murderers - we are talking about those who reject God and Islam.

    Seriously Abdul Fattah - look at me in the eye and tell me you see nothing wrong with billions of people being made to suffer endless torture in Hell while you are eating grapes in paradise, praising the Most Merciful of those who show Mercy?

  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #81 - July 22, 2010, 11:38 PM

    Hi,

    As for hitting the wife. Well I'm not an expert on fiqh. What this verse seems to be referring to, is hitting the hand with a siwak (a thin, light, soft stick used as toothbrush). and that it is a last resort, better not used.



    Well doesn't it sound a bit silly though?  I mean you're trying to force a woman to see the error of her ways and if nothing works you are allowed to tap her lightly on the shoulder like that would work..  Is that rational?  And then let's assume that it does refer to tapping with a siwak, it still emphasises the role of the male being the teacher of his wife doesn't it?  It could be taken as a ritual affirmation of his superiority towards her.  No where in quran is there anything mentioned about the wife being able to correct her husband in the same way

    As for fossil and DNA evidence, I don't believe these "evidences" are very conclusive, but rather are highly debatable.


    Why so?  You think that our DNA similarities with chimpanzees are a coincidence then? Why did the creator give us body parts which are useless and could even kill us?  Why do we have an immune system that has a chance of turning on our own bodies.  Why are our own cells at risk of losing control and giving rise to a tumor?
     
    Hassan,
    Yes I consider eternal torture consistent with the most mercifull. Most means highest among all others. It doesn't mean unlimited as to all will always be forgiven. One of the names of Allah is also the most just. And I don't believe that it would be just to allow some people into heaven.


    But your god is supposedly all knowing.  He knows what people are going to do way before they were born so logically they don't have too much of a chance do they?  They have been born and already condemned..  And then there is the issue of the impossibility of him being all knowing and omnipotent.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #82 - July 22, 2010, 11:40 PM

    Very true, but again, that's because I am a pragmatist and don't believe in playing it safe and siting by the sidelines. And this pragmatic approach to the issue; that to I consider to be rational and honest. I decided to believe because logic dictates me it's the most plausible among the different alternatives. So in the end I still don't see how my views are less honest, rational or true then those of an agnostic.

    There have been several thousand belief systems throughout human history.  Pretty much every tribe in every corner of the world has its weird beliefs and rituals to attempt to explain and control natural phenomena.  All these belief systems could claim to be 'rational' just as you claim your belief system is 'rational'.  They all 'play it safe' in case their god exists and will judge them in the hereafter (or whatever!). What evidence do you have to prove that your religion is 'true' and all others are false?

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #83 - July 23, 2010, 12:14 AM

    Interesting how the conscience finds it difficult to agree with the death penalty for apostasy, but whole-heartedly accepts the idea that they will be tortured for an eternity, only because they disbelieved.

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #84 - July 23, 2010, 12:30 AM

    And of course the problem with that is once people accept that non-believers can be justly tortured for eternity it then becomes far easier to justify torturing them here and now.

    Quote from: Voltaire
    Formerly there were those who said: You believe things that are incomprehensible, inconsistent, impossible because we have commanded you to believe them; go then and do what is unjust because we command it. Such people show admirable reasoning. Truly, whoever is able to make you absurd is able to make you unjust.  If the God-given understanding of your mind does not resist a demand to believe what is impossible, then you will not resist a demand to do wrong to that God-given sense of justice in your heart. As soon as one faculty of your soul has been dominated, other faculties will follow as well. And from this derives all those crimes of religion which have overrun the world.


    Or, in the shorter and more popular version: "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."  yes

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #85 - July 23, 2010, 12:33 AM

    and then there's the shariah FAIRNESS act.. Western muslimahs, who DONT have
    a male relative or husband CANNOT complete the FIVE pillars of islam, because she isnt
    allowed to go to hajj, cuz Saudi Arabia wont let her into the country without a male
    relative or husband *snort* and absolutely NO way around that one.  EVEN with
    groups going from a masjid, they CANNOT go!

    EDIT:  AND if marriage is HALF HER DEEN, and she doesnt WANT to get married,
    she's screwed too.  (never mind her beloved was killed in a car crash and she
    has neither the energy or the will to get involved with anyone again)

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #86 - July 23, 2010, 12:56 AM

    And of course the problem with that is once people accept that non-believers can be justly tortured for eternity it then becomes far easier to justify torturing them here and now.

    You mean like this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYeI7sswrDA#t=0m20s

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #87 - July 23, 2010, 12:59 AM

    Hi,
    I'm new to the site. I'm not sure what kind of environment to expect. I think some of you might have had very negative experiences with Islam and Muslims, but I hope we can still talk, and perhaps debate openly. A small introduction;

    I'm a 28y old guy, born and raised in the west. I work as an industrial electrician. And about 6 years ago I converted to Islam. Not because of a girl, not on a whim, but because I was, and still am convinced that it is true. Now, this might be somewhat controversial, but I consider myself a rational muslim. To some people that might seem like a contradiction in terms, but remember Russel Bertrand who said:

    "It would be perfectly possible to be a complete and absolute Rationalist in the true sense of the term and yet accept this or that dogma. The question is how to arrive at your opinions and not what your opinions are. The thing in which we believe is the supremacy of reason. If reason should lead you to orthodox conclusions, well and good; you are still a Rationalist."

    What am I doing here? Well I don't expect to convert any of you, that's certainly not my intention. But perhaps I might be able to show that things aren't as black and white as they might seem sometimes. As for what I expect to get out of it personally, if my faith can remain strong and logical, while critically analyzing it on this forum, I think it would yet again reaffirm the correctness of my faith.



    SURAT TELL-ME

    In the name of Mercy and Love

    Hi Smiley

    And I haven't had any more negative experiences with muslims then I've had with people of other faiths and non-faith. My family and friends are still muslims and I love them dearly.

    To me Islam is demonstrably untrue, along with every other religion and superstition. Along with God, at least the personal & creator God, the God(s) of religion falls under heavy scrutiny.

    It's funny you call yourself a rationalist. I think I am too.

    Tell me what is the rational of not abolishing slavery completely? Or having sex with captives? What is the rational of murdering apostates? What is the rational of hell-fire and eternal punishment for a thought-crime?

    You believe in Angels, Jinns and Black Magic because it's in a book you have "rationally" deemed holy and true. A book that is in an Arabic no longer spoken from a place that no longer exists. Yet all parts of it are true, to this day.

    Tell me what is the rational of so many religions and yet Islam is the one true religion? In this day and age why would a person that has never heard of Islam be convinced that the Universe indeeds runs on the model of the Quran and the hadiths and the Sira?

    Not to mention Muhammad Smiley Who was a man of his time, a barbaric time, he could at times be gentle but was at many occasions ruthless and harsh. A man who had sex with a child and who ordered the mass-grave and execution of 600-900 Jewish civilian men and boys. Tell me how is this man the finest example of mankind? An example to be set and followed even 10 000 years from now (If we are to exist for this long).

    Tell me what is the rational of wudu? Fasting? Hajj? Stoning the devil? Tell me what is the rational of worship to a being that does NOT worship? Or humans that do not need to worship in order to be grateful and humble and kind. Tell me why pray in that manner? Why according to those times? Why mention Muhammad's name in prayer? Why do the azan when alone? And every other part and parcel of prayer and worship, tell me what is the rational behind it?  

    Tell me what is the rational of an All Might God that can not (or will not) regrow the missing limbs of mujhadin that sacrificed their limbs for His Cause? To spread Islam?

    Tell me what is the meaning of a God that has this names;

    Al-Jabbar    The Irresistible, The Compeller, The Lofty,

    Al-Qahhār    The Subduer

    Al-Khāfid    The Abaser

    Al-Mu'dhell    The Giver of Dishonour

    Al-Qawwiyy    The Strong

    Al-Mumīt    The Destroyer, The Bringer of Death

    Al-Muntaqim    The Avenger

    Ad-Dārr    The Distressor, The Harmer, The Afflictor

    Is it not a reflection of the image of God people had back then? Or would you say this is still the same image of God people have today?

    Tell me what is the meaning of children starving and others not starving? Even if both pray? Is it because God ignores them? Does not exist? Or because of socioeconomic reasons?

    Tell me dear ex-brother and present brother in humanity, you who will go to heaven and enjoy yourself with pure mates and rivers of wine, while your friends and family burn eternally in hell, and drink melted copper, tell me what is the rational of telling us about Noah's Ark, the Exodus and other historical events and figures but not provide us with any archaeological evidence of their existence today?

    Finally tell me what is the rational of verse 4:34, is this not a sign of that time? Please do not tell me about the miswak, because I do not find that in the Quran nor do I find the word "lightly" nor do I find the miswak in the Hadiths. Nor do I find the rational of even using a miswak or a light beating (or any of these arguments) to be conducive to human intellect (and not to mention human mercy, sympathy, kindness and empathy), at least a fully-freed one.
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #88 - July 23, 2010, 01:27 AM

    Tell me brother, what is the rational of a religion that allows you to harbor the fatwas of extremists on your website, the fatwas to have us murdered in cold blood. Like dogs executed on an open street. Tell me what is the rational of this religion and yet you come to us, seeking amicable and peaceful discussions?

    If I was to have Nazi sympathizers on my website and join a Jewish forum, what reaction would I receive? What words would I deserve?

    Yet according to your religion, your God, your Prophet, this analogy is not befitting because the former, Islam, has a holy stamp of approval. It means you are in the right, the fatwas are in the right, and you on some level, even implicitly agree to them. Yet you come to us? To guard your religion from doubts and questions?

    You come to us with the approval of murder of innocent civilians in the back of your mind, even if it be a silent part of your mind. And you come to have discussions AND ALSO strengthen your faith. This place to you is a café and a boxing ring, a café that could at anytime suffer a (justified according to the fatwas on your site) horrendous fire or an explosion. And the blood that runs into the paved sidewalk and exits in the gutter is not worth shedding a tear over.
     
    Once again, welcome Smiley
  • Re: convinced rational muslim
     Reply #89 - July 23, 2010, 02:36 AM

    okay..here's what your dude claims, and following that, Blasphemy Law In Islam
    so much for pussyfooting around "rational and logical thought" VS REALITY!!

    Post #327 Excerpts From:

    Name: Ahmad Kutty
    Born in Kerala State, India (1946)
    Nationality: Canadian

    Now coming to the false notion that everyone who leaves Islam is automatically
    killed, I can assure you that this was certainly not the case in many cases.
    Even though the penalty for treason was the death penalty (as was the case
    in the Law of Moses as well), there was no targeting of people who simply
    chose to leave Islam without any implication of treason.

    Moreover, it is incorrect to say that everyone who leaves Islam is automatically killed.
    Thus, if an apostate causes no harm to the Muslim community and does not call for spreading
    hostility towards Islam, he is not to be punished, rather he is to be advised kindly and
    wisely to let him know the true image of Islam.

    http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Blasphemy#Blasphemy_in_Islam
    NEW WORLD ENCYCLOPEDIA

    Blasphemy in Islam
     
    Salman Rushdie, author of The Satanic Verses.Blasphemy in Islam constitutes speaking
    ill God, of the prophet Muhammad, any other prophet mentioned in the Qur'an, or of any
    biblical prophets. The Qu'ran also states—in direct opposition to traditional Christian
    tradition—that it is blasphemy to claim that Jesus Christ is the son of God (5.017).

    For those who blaspheme by attacking the Qur'an or the Prophet, the Qur'an says that the
    punishment shall be "execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from
    opposite sides, or exile from the land: That is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy
    punishment is theirs in the Hereafter" (Surah Al-Maidah 5:33).

    In Muslim countries, blasphemy is still considered a very serious offense and may in
    some cases be punishable by death. British author Salman Rushdie's novel The Satanic
    Verses was seen by many Muslims to contain blasphemies against Islam, and Iranian
    leader Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa in 1989, calling for Rushdie's death. More
    recently, cartoons published in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten were criticized
    on the basis that they were blasphemous against Muhammad. The Egyptian government,
    under pressure by the parliament, banned the film, The Da Vinci Code, and is to
    confiscate the novel for containing blasphemy. In Pakistan and other Islamic nations,
    Christians often bear the brunt of the country’s blasphemy laws.

    Pakistan
    Among Muslim-majority countries, Pakistan has the strictest anti-blasphemy laws.
    In 1982, President Zia ul-Haq introduced Section 295B to the Pakistan Penal Code
    punishing "defiling the Holy Qur'an" with life imprisonment. In 1986, Section 295C
    was introduced, mandating the death penalty for "use of derogatory remarks in
    respect of the Holy Prophet."

    In 1990, the Federal Shari’ah Court ruled that the penalty should be a mandatory death
    sentence, with no right to reprieve or pardon. This is binding, but the government
    is yet to formally amend the law, which means that the provision for life sentence
    still formally exists, and is used by the government as a concession to critics of
    the death penalty. In 2004, the Pakistani parliament approved a law to reduce the
    scope of the blasphemy laws. The amendment to the law means that police officials
    will have to investigate accusations of blasphemy to ensure that they are well
    founded, before presenting criminal charges.

    However, the law is allegedly used against political adversaries or personal enemies,
    by Muslim fundamentalists against Christians, Hindus, and Sikhs, or for personal
    revenge. Especially Ahmadi Muslims are victims of the blasphemy law. They claim
    to be Muslims themselves, but under the blasphemy law, they are not allowed to
    use Islamic vocabulary or rituals.

    The Pakistani Catholic bishops' Justice and Peace Commission complained in July 2005,
    that since 1988, some 650 people had been falsely accused and arrested under the
    blasphemy law. Moreover, over the same period, some 20 people accused of the same
    offense had been killed. As of July 2005, 80 Christians were in prison accused of
    blasphemy.

    Christians in Pakistan protested Dan Brown's novel The Da Vinci Code as blasphemous,
    with the support of Muslims as well. On June 3, 2006, Pakistan banned the film.
    Culture Minister Gulab Jamal said: "Islam teaches us to respect all the prophets of
    God Almighty and degradation of any prophet is tantamount to defamation of the rest."[3]


    Indonesia
    Although considered one of the more moderate Muslim nations, Indonesian blasphemy
    laws allow a person to be jailed for up to five years. Yet Article 29, b, of
    Indonesia's constitution states: "The State guarantees all persons the freedom of
    worship, each according to his/her own religion or belief." In July 2006, Lia Aminddin,
    the female leader of the Kingdom of Eden sect, was jailed for two years. This sect
    was neither Christian nor Muslim, and was based in Jakarta. Aminuddin had preached
    her beliefs with impunity for a decade, until she declared that she was the spirit
    of the Archangel Gabriel. Islamists from the Indonesian Council of Ulemas surrounded
    her compound in Jakarta for two days, in December 2005, until Aminuddin and 48 others
    were arrested and charged. The prosecution sought the five-year penalty against
    Aminuddin, and launched an appeal against her "lenient" sentence.


    Saudi Arabia
    In Saudi Arabia, the death sentence has been applied for apostasy, though in Saudi Arabia,
    the last known execution for apostasy happened in 1992. More generally, such cases are
    charged as blasphemy. In Saudi Arabia, blasphemy has been punished with sentences of
    decapitation or imprisonment for up to eight years. The latter sentence was imposed
    in 2002, on a man who had said he found the Qur'an "boring." On January 7, 2003,
    Hail Al Masri, a Yemeni fruit seller living in Jeddah was sentenced to death by
    decapitation. His "crime" had been to refuse his roommate's entreaties to engage in
    morning prayers. Masri had been sentenced to two years' jail and 600 lashes, but this
    had been overturned by a Jeddah court, which had imposed the death penalty.


    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
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