Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Do humans have needed kno...
Today at 06:36 PM

New Britain
Yesterday at 03:15 PM

عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
March 29, 2025, 01:09 PM

Eid-Al-Fitr
by akay
March 29, 2025, 08:40 AM

Ramadan
by akay
March 29, 2025, 08:39 AM

Turkish mafia reliance
March 24, 2025, 06:00 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
March 22, 2025, 10:19 AM

افضل الايام
by akay
March 21, 2025, 10:57 AM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
March 21, 2025, 07:07 AM

Gaza assault
March 19, 2025, 09:04 AM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
March 16, 2025, 08:55 PM

Muslim grooming gangs sti...
March 16, 2025, 02:46 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: EDL attacks in Leicester

 (Read 41955 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 34 5 ... 7 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #60 - October 26, 2010, 12:59 AM

    So "contextualize" surah 024.002:

    The adulterer and the adulteress, flog each one of them a hundred stripes. And let not pity  withhold you from obedience to Allah, IF YOU BELIEVE IN ALLAH AND THE LAST DAY....


    Well DH, there are other versions of islam available on net which are neither sunni nor shia. They simply prove from the original sources what islam is, who is a muslim and what shariah means.

    I have explained some of the things in another thread.

    The main point is that islam does not mean it is a complete or comprehensive way of life as is the belief of both sunnies and shias. Islam is all about some main directive that are bounderies of religion within which all are free to do as they please as opposed to sunni shia versions that make islam a straight jacket.

    The 2nd point is definition of word sunnah. It does not mean each and every word and deed of muhamamd is sunnah and that muslims must follow it. Sunnah is such a word and deed of muhamamd that is in response to quranic commandments for muslims to follow. It does not means dressing up like muhamamd or walkingtalking and sitting and standing like muhammad as is generally understood in sunni islam. This leaves muslims to live in their own time as it suits their own situation in their own place.

    Sunni islam is actually false islam because it was islam of rulers according to shia records. Muslim rulers created a version of islam that ensured their rule was secure. They added far too many things in islam and interpreted quran accordingly to suit themselves.

    Likewise quran is interpreted in two different contexts eg the quran only muslim context and the ijtihadi context. One shows that all harsh punishments shown in the quranic translations are wrong rather the same words have been used in the quran in other meanings as well. The other version accepts the harsh punishment as true translation but they say they are in context of extreme cases. Most of it is left to judges to see individual crime and its circumstances and the circumstances of accused involved.

    For example, when muslims used to go on battles and left their wives, mothers, sisters and daughter home, some men will remain at home and go out and rape lonely women and do other serious crimes.

    So quranic verses need to be understood in their legal context if they are to be taken as law of the land. The verse in 24/2 is about such people as have sex in the open ie in front of all as a habit, having no respect for others. There is no punishment for people who have consensual sex behind closed doors.

    Sura 24/2 is part of 2/178, 4/15-16 and 5/35 etc which deal with crimes and punishments.

    The quran was interpreted in various way by various muslim scholars through out times but the winning version was always that which suited muslims who were in power. So the normal versions of the quranic interpretations did not get support to become wide spread amongst muslims. Soon after death of muhammad disputes broke out amongst muslims and whoever took over the rule of ummah decided what version of islam was suitable to further his objectives. There were muslims, hypcrites, apostates, shias, sunnies, khawarij, motazlas, muhajireen, ansaar and various tribes etc etc. Each of these wanted power in their hands.

    Regardless islam is not necessarily what these great oceans of people claim in their gatherings. This is not to say that whatever sunnies say about islam is wrong but that they are wrong here and there and the same is true about all other muslim sects of today.

    It is important to distinguish between religion its scriptures, its followers and their interpretations of it.

    Some of their claims can be disproven very easily eg when sunnies say islam is a complete and comprehesive way of life in the sense that all has been revealed to the minute detail. The same can be shown about their claim about sunnah ie what is sunnah and what is not sunnah.

    So islam is better than what most of its followers claim about it.
             

     

     

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #61 - October 26, 2010, 01:24 AM

    For me, the EDL's actions (or whoever is responsible, bullshit by any other name and all that) are irresponsible reactions to a genuine threat (political movement of Islamism) aimed at innocent people who are probably not even Muslim. It is clear that it attracts bigots and scum who just use it as a legit vehicle to push their own agendas.

    Let the extremists destroy each other but the sad part is they must tread on innocent people like stepping stones in the meantime.
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #62 - October 26, 2010, 01:37 AM

    The main point is that islam does not mean it is a complete or comprehensive way of life as is the belief of both sunnies and shias. Islam is all about some main directive that are bounderies of religion within which all are free to do as they please as opposed to sunni shia versions that make islam a straight jacket.


    The boundaries are defined by sunni/shia schools of thought. What do you mean?

    Quote
    The 2nd point is definition of word sunnah. It does not mean each and every word and deed of muhamamd is sunnah and that muslims must follow it.


    This is your opinion on the matter. Ask a Salafi and he/she will give you a completely opposite answer. What makes your opinion any better than theirs?

    Quote
    Sunni islam is actually false islam because it was islam of rulers according to shia records. Muslim rulers created a version of islam that ensured their rule was secure. They added far too many things in islam and interpreted quran accordingly to suit themselves.


    Are you for real?

    Quote
    So islam is better than what most of its followers claim about it.


    I love how you claim there is this "ideal vision" of Islam that exists above and beyond how it's followers behave. Islam was created by a man for men to rule over other men and women, and worse still, was an unfinished product when Muhammad died. It was too ambitious for its own good and so many men had to (and are still) filling in the gaps. There is as such no constant version of Islam, it is whatever its followers make of it - unless you claim to know better than most of them?
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #63 - October 26, 2010, 02:09 AM

    Dear Eliphaz, I do not mean islam is a true religion from any true god but that it is a religion based on some scriptures and the scriptures can be interpreted in various ways but that it is possible to show that some interpretations are worth more than others because they better represent actual texts in context of the scritptures.

    Those who claim islam to be a comprehensive religion are clearly wrong because they cannot show from the scriptural texts that what they claim is actually true. Let us discuss this in detail if you are an exmuslim and wish to do so.

    The claim of comprehensiveness of islam is used to tell muslims at large that islam tells muslims what to do and how to do it as regard all matters in life. The sunnah is almost same thing in sunni islam this is why people dress like muhammad and try to be like him in each and every way. This again is not based on the actual scriptural texts in their context.

    It is not possible for one human being to be exactly like another or to follow anyone faithfully in all words and deeds in life. This shows that people who interpret the quran and the hadith that way are very clearly wrong beyond a shadow of doubt.

    Any sunni, wahabi, deobandi, brelvi, salafi is welcome to have a go. You will see they cannot come up with any explanation that proves their definitions of these words right.

    Their versions of islam are dangerous because they rather make humanity go backwards. This is why I have put up videos to show how ignorant they are about islam and what is in its scriptures and what all this means.

    regards and all the best.   

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #64 - October 26, 2010, 06:46 AM

    Quote from: Mughal
    So quranic verses need to be understood in their legal context if they are to be taken as law of the land. The verse in 24/2 is about such people as have sex in the open ie in front of all as a habit, having no respect for others. There is no punishment for people who have consensual sex behind closed doors.


    Please explain in detail how you worked THAT out. From a Koran-only viewpoint it says what it says. Otherwise, please provide at least one implicit or explicit statement from an extra-Koranic source that verse 24/2 is only applicable to people who engage in "open air" sex.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #65 - October 26, 2010, 06:49 AM

    Quote from: "Rev. Winton Dupree"
    You are a BNP member and activist, perhaps even a councillor.


    Now tell all the viewers when and how you came to this conclusion.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #66 - October 26, 2010, 06:58 AM

    Now tell all the viewers when and how you came to this conclusion.


    Well, to be honest, I've thought you were a right "councillor" all along ;-)

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #67 - October 26, 2010, 07:38 AM

    For me, the EDL's actions (or whoever is responsible, bullshit by any other name and all that) are irresponsible reactions to a genuine threat (political movement of Islamism) aimed at innocent people who are probably not even Muslim. It is clear that it attracts bigots and scum who just use it as a legit vehicle to push their own agendas.

    Let the extremists destroy each other but the sad part is they must tread on innocent people like stepping stones in the meantime.


    Bingo! You should build a big stadium and conduct a series of 'WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP' games between EDL and Islamists,with no spectators.It should be a 'fight to kill' finish.At the end we will have one group of extremists left.Two groups are one too many IMO.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #68 - October 26, 2010, 09:13 AM

    Actually it is 98% who think that Britain is becoming a "Muslim state".Well at least according to a survey in the Star.

     His declaration comes after yesterday’s Daily Star poll found 98% of readers fear that Britain is becoming a Muslim state."

    Thats a heavily biased survey where the methodology was all wrong.  Firstly the Daily Star reader is already a segmented part of the population, and then only those that would have felt strongly about the question would have participated.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #69 - October 26, 2010, 09:55 AM

    Well, to be honest, I've thought you were a right "councillor" all along ;-)


     Grin

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #70 - October 26, 2010, 09:56 AM

    I would say its higher than 50%.

     Its a combination of things that have come together at the same time,recession,banking criisis,spending cuts,mass immigration and political correctness gone mad. The far right always rise when these factors are in place.Mosley did well in the thirties depression and the NF were very prominent during the 74' recession.Once the economy improves and people feel more secure the EDL will gradually decline and become as irrelevant as the BNP.


    The BNP's irrelevancy and failure is probably driving and funnelling into support for the EDL.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #71 - October 26, 2010, 09:57 AM

    Let's wait for "rev Dupree's" response to my question to him.


    No need Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #72 - October 26, 2010, 10:18 AM

    For me, the EDL's actions (or whoever is responsible, bullshit by any other name and all that) are irresponsible reactions to a genuine threat (political movement of Islamism) aimed at innocent people who are probably not even Muslim. It is clear that it attracts bigots and scum who just use it as a legit vehicle to push their own agendas.

    Let the extremists destroy each other but the sad part is they must tread on innocent people like stepping stones in the meantime.


    This goes without saying ^^^

    You can trace the actual moment that the EDL came into being. It was when a batallion of soldiers parading through Luton were barracked and abused by a gang of Anjum Choudhry's followers. There were probably only a couple of dozen of them there at most, but it was the straw the broke the camels back. It led to such outrage in the country that it seemed as if a line in the sand had been drawn. It just left everyone feeling repulsed, and even though it was obviously just a minority of Muslims, it crystalised something, and immediately after the English Defence League started 'counter demonstrating', although their demonstrations are amalgamations of football firms, BNP type sympathisers, with others in the mix too. The whole thing is amorphous, hard to pin down, the leadership seems loose.

    Well, Anjum Choudhry certainly succeeded. I think this division may be his 'greatest' achievment and victory.

     

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #73 - October 26, 2010, 10:38 AM

    Billy you must write. Must write. Must write.

    I am pretty sure more people would love to hear your thoughts.
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #74 - October 26, 2010, 11:37 AM


    Oh BD stop flattering me please

     *false modesty sigh*


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #75 - October 26, 2010, 11:40 AM

    this mega stuff can't be good


    A mega-introduction in the Introduction forum from you would be good  Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #76 - October 26, 2010, 11:49 AM

    Please explain in detail how you worked THAT out. From a Koran-only viewpoint it says what it says. Otherwise, please provide at least one implicit or explicit statement from an extra-Koranic source that verse 24/2 is only applicable to people who engage in "open air" sex.


    What exactly is there you want me to explain dear DH? If people have consensual sex behind closed doors who would be be accuser and who will be witness to their this act? When there is no accuser no evidence there is no case to answer.

    Only if people have consensual sex somewhere where they are a cause for concern for others that they will be accused and witnessed and law enforcement agencies will get involved. You see if you are not seen not heard then you do not exist as far as law is concerned.

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #77 - October 26, 2010, 11:51 AM

    Oh BD stop flattering me please

     *false modesty sigh*




    Grin I'm not though. I'm not the only one on this forum that thinks you should write more. I wish the Guardian, The Daily Telegraph, The Times and The Independent knew of the fine writers (you included) we have on this forum. It's a damn shame!
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #78 - October 26, 2010, 11:53 AM

    this mega stuff can't be good

    are you a journalist?  I think I have heard your name somewhere before..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #79 - October 27, 2010, 07:00 AM

    Quote from: Mughal
    What exactly is there you want me to explain dear DH? If people have consensual sex behind closed doors who would be be accuser and who will be witness to their this act?


    Someone who walks in on them and catches the adulterers at it. Someone who spies them at it through a window.

    Quote
    When there is no accuser no evidence there is no case to answer. Only if people have consensual sex somewhere where they are a cause for concern for others that they will be accused and witnessed and law enforcement agencies will get involved. You see if you are not seen not heard then you do not exist as far as law is concerned.


    That is completely different from saying the extra-marital copulators must be at in in the "open air". Please clarify, do you or do you not agree that if adulterers/fornicators are caught in flagrante delicto whether indoors, behind a barn or in the tinned fruit aisle of Walmart the Koran mandates that they be flogged a hundred stripes "without pity"?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #80 - October 28, 2010, 01:30 AM

    yes i am. hello~
    are you a journalist?  I think I have heard your name somewhere before..


    'I will not serve that in which I no longer believe, whether it call itself my home, my fatherland, or my church: and I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely and as wholly as I can, using for my defence the only arms I allow myself to use: silence, exile and cunning.'
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #81 - October 28, 2010, 01:49 AM

    hello. i am a poor journalist from pakistan. i work, eat and shower. occasionally i take a dump too. and smoke weed sometimes. life is good.  hi billy~!! ..now this was mega yeh thnkyu

    A mega-introduction in the Introduction forum from you would be good  Afro


    'I will not serve that in which I no longer believe, whether it call itself my home, my fatherland, or my church: and I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely and as wholly as I can, using for my defence the only arms I allow myself to use: silence, exile and cunning.'
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #82 - October 28, 2010, 08:58 AM

    yes i am. hello~



    Welcome  Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #83 - October 28, 2010, 09:04 AM

    Someone who walks in on them and catches the adulterers at it. Someone who spies them at it through a window.

    That is completely different from saying the extra-marital copulators must be at in in the "open air". Please clarify, do you or do you not agree that if adulterers/fornicators are caught in flagrante delicto whether indoors, behind a barn or in the tinned fruit aisle of Walmart the Koran mandates that they be flogged a hundred stripes "without pity"?


    Dear DH, please underestand that my claim is not that islam is perfect because it is revealed by god but that it is better than what most muslims believe it to be. For example, it can be shown from the quran that stoning to death of adulterers is not islamic punishment. However this is not what sunni and shia muslims believe. Likewise there is no punishment of death for apostates of islam in islam as far as the quran is concerned.

    The following links can help understand the point I am making.


    http://www.renaissance.com.pk/septed2y2.html


    http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=7113


    http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/main.php


    http://www.al-mawrid.org/pages/download_books.php


    http://www.submitters.org.uk/


    http://www.tolueislam.com/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFbpHgd1VuE


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vBCJJ-EZcw&feature=related

    The main point one has to remember is that no human society can live in chaos or anarchy. However whenever humans come together, the need arises for rules between them for whatever they deem necessary for their living. For example, we wish to live in peace and harmony and wish to cooperate with each other where it is necessary to do so for our own good ie progress and prosperity. However there arises need for keeping our societies on track so we bring in sanctions against those in our societies who may cause trouble. These sanctions need to be such that they can deal with such elements effectively. So we have punishments for bad apples in our societies.  

    It is some times difficult to see which punishment is better or worse but after trial and error may be we can agree on somethings and disagree on others the while we are not able to come up with better ideas.

    Likewise islamic societies have there own ideas about things as compared to nonilsamic societies. So we can agree on some things and disagree on others till we can prove to each other what is better or worse. This is what discussions are all about.

    I am personally against death as panelty for a crime but if one is better off dead than living as far as a society is concerned then such a person should be put to sleep as a mercy killing because we as a society have no other better way of dealing with any such person. Keeping any such person alive would mean more trouble for more people or evenb the person himself.

    So determining what is right way of dealing with a situation is not always an easy thing to do. Likewise sex related problems are very difficult to deal with because they involved more than one person. Marriage, divorce, inheritence, legacy, discipline, responsibility, priority all need to be understood.

    Society is all about socialising and socializing is all about social relationships and social relationships must have rules or we end up in chaos and anarchy. Family is basic unit of any society or there is no society. Unless people see any sense in cooperation between themselves and a sense of responsibility towards each other there is no sense in life. This is why laws must be in place and effective for running or governing of any society islamic or not.

    regards and all the best.
      

    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #84 - October 28, 2010, 09:26 AM

    hello. i am a poor journalist from pakistan. i work, eat and shower. occasionally i take a dump too. and smoke weed sometimes. life is good.  hi billy~!! ..now this was mega yeh thnkyu


    That was one of the shortest intros we've ever had - you're more like a poet than a journalist  C'mon, I am sure you can do better  Afro

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #85 - October 28, 2010, 09:52 AM

    Islam and muslims

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wdmzpM8Yx8&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTfNtIPLdHk&NR=1&feature=fvwp
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azWcswYbC9E&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjynqulGWN8&feature=fvw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUnllThLSZI&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av3ZDymX2yg&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHp-yKIjI8U
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW_mPbhhUAg&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb08FWCOXAo&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqDEVe3gJCM&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZw9YEflK_w&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSrWj2Mjee8&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGqzm95z4lM&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rsjSpYzoz4&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM4M-BZ8Qgs&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM4M-BZ8Qgs&feature=related

    Shias in denmark

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z4zsR8n0ck


    Sunni gatherings in india, pakistan, bangladesh and out side


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQDjmOCVg8g&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdPJoPlW05o&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0yPE5ZlabE&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVpa08ZBk_A
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c8sJXn8-eA&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFBmOmPsEgs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvVuiED3k90&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA1U7sIJRPw&feature=related#
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DiHciPdCBA&feature=related



    Mughal no offence but it is very easy to condemn Al Qaeda and violent actions.  Condemning the mentality that makes it happen is a totally different story.  It is useless to condemn suicide bombers in the USA when you see the rafidun as deviants, think Christians are going to hell and you think that stoning women for adultery is something acceptable.  The violent actions are mainly an icing on the cake.

    No I genuinely do not think that the followers are the problem, the ideology is.  The followers can actually be very nice people, and yet because of their conditioning they will still be able to commit atrocities.  I also do not agree with your putting it all down to context, the fact that the quran is taken to be a literal revelation and the fact that it is not reliable as a guide book for ethical rules (the hadiths come into that) contribute quite a lot to the current situation.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #86 - October 28, 2010, 01:37 PM

    introductions are awkward. i don't enjoy them.
    That was one of the shortest intros we've ever had - you're more like a poet than a journalist  C'mon, I am sure you can do better  Afro


    'I will not serve that in which I no longer believe, whether it call itself my home, my fatherland, or my church: and I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely and as wholly as I can, using for my defence the only arms I allow myself to use: silence, exile and cunning.'
  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #87 - October 28, 2010, 02:39 PM


    You're such a tease.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #88 - October 28, 2010, 03:46 PM

    This goes without saying ^^^

    You can trace the actual moment that the EDL came into being. It was when a batallion of soldiers parading through Luton were barracked and abused by a gang of Anjum Choudhry's followers. There were probably only a couple of dozen of them there at most, but it was the straw the broke the camels back. It led to such outrage in the country that it seemed as if a line in the sand had been drawn. It just left everyone feeling repulsed, and even though it was obviously just a minority of Muslims, it crystalised something, and immediately after the English Defence League started 'counter demonstrating', although their demonstrations are amalgamations of football firms, BNP type sympathisers, with others in the mix too. The whole thing is amorphous, hard to pin down, the leadership seems loose.

    Well, Anjum Choudhry certainly succeeded. I think this division may be his 'greatest' achievment and victory.

     


    Very interesting Billy... I actually didn't know the full story. I suppose AC can wash his hands of any responsibility for creating the EDL, according to him these anti-Islamic sentiments were always bubbling under the surface, he just brought them to the surface. I have been watching a few interviews with this guy. It makes me mad that he actually went to the same university as me, it gives a bad name to my uni!

    Dear Eliphaz, I do not mean islam is a true religion from any true god but that it is a religion based on some scriptures and the scriptures can be interpreted in various ways but that it is possible to show that some interpretations are worth more than others because they better represent actual texts in context of the scritptures.

    Those who claim islam to be a comprehensive religion are clearly wrong because they cannot show from the scriptural texts that what they claim is actually true. Let us discuss this in detail if you are an exmuslim and wish to do so.

    The claim of comprehensiveness of islam is used to tell muslims at large that islam tells muslims what to do and how to do it as regard all matters in life. The sunnah is almost same thing in sunni islam this is why people dress like muhammad and try to be like him in each and every way. This again is not based on the actual scriptural texts in their context.

    It is not possible for one human being to be exactly like another or to follow anyone faithfully in all words and deeds in life. This shows that people who interpret the quran and the hadith that way are very clearly wrong beyond a shadow of doubt.

    Any sunni, wahabi, deobandi, brelvi, salafi is welcome to have a go. You will see they cannot come up with any explanation that proves their definitions of these words right.

    Their versions of islam are dangerous because they rather make humanity go backwards. This is why I have put up videos to show how ignorant they are about islam and what is in its scriptures and what all this means.

    regards and all the best.    


    I guess what I am asking Mughal is why your interpretation of Islam is any more valid than the others.

    Also, you have said that there is no general punishment for adultry in the Qur'an. Where are you getting this information? The Qur'an prescribes lashing with "100 stripes" whilst this was later abrogated by the hadith with stoning to death. This idea of "doing it out in the open with no respect", what the hell are you on about?

    I'm sorry but I'm going to have to go Tafsir ibn Kathir on your ass:

    Quote
    (Regarding 24:2) This indicates that if the person who is guilty of illegal sex is a virgin and unmarried, he should be banished in addition to being given one hundred stripes. But if married, meaning he has had intercourse within the bounds of lawful marriage, and he is free, adult and of sound mind, then he should be stoned to death.

  • Re: EDL attacks in Leicester
     Reply #89 - October 29, 2010, 01:41 AM

    Mughal no offence but it is very easy to condemn Al Qaeda and violent actions.  Condemning the mentality that makes it happen is a totally different story.  It is useless to condemn suicide bombers in the USA when you see the rafidun as deviants, think Christians are going to hell and you think that stoning women for adultery is something acceptable.  The violent actions are mainly an icing on the cake.

    No I genuinely do not think that the followers are the problem, the ideology is.  The followers can actually be very nice people, and yet because of their conditioning they will still be able to commit atrocities.  I also do not agree with your putting it all down to context, the fact that the quran is taken to be a literal revelation and the fact that it is not reliable as a guide book for ethical rules (the hadiths come into that) contribute quite a lot to the current situation.


    Thank you dear ras111 for your views and you have the right to disagree as to what I think. However you have raised the point of conditioning and that is very important to think about. Sunni rulers conditioned the rest of ummah to their suitability. That is exactly what I am saying. They interpreted the quran such that it served their purpose as a political tool.

    I am not saying islam is nonviolent or not harsh but that it is not all that as sunnies are making it to be. If you look at links I provided above you will see what I mean.

    regards and all the best.


    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Previous page 1 2 34 5 ... 7 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »