Bismillah
As I have very limited time right now, I would just like to respond quickly to what some people have wrote, some have picked on a certain point, which I think is a misunderstanding, and it's due to the amount of questions I have had, so I did not phrase it properly.
It's to do with the less advanced conquering the more advanced, and I meant to say in a military sense.
Everybody seems to think that I said, that the Arab Muslims gave the world civilisation, and that when they conquer a country and impose their civilisation on them, that it's right, but that it's not right in reverse. Which is hypocrisy and I did not say such a thing.
I said that Islam gave the Arabs civilisation and that it was a positive thing, that it brought all the tribes together. Muhammad (SAW) formed a state and brought order among them, civilised them, i.e gave them civilisation.
You might disagree, as I find every person disagreeing on almost every single point I have to make, but I am not here to argue about that.
I did not mean to say that Arabs were more advanced in terms of complexity, and it is my fault for the way I phrased it. However Muslim civilisation did become extremely advanced, more so than every other civilisation at the time, for e.g Andalus.
I am not trying to focus on the past, as I have been accused by a member, that I was holding on to the glory of the past and having nothing to point to today.
This was actually a response to a question by MAS who said and I quote:
There is no ideal muslim society to look up to. What is the use of teachings which are not effective in real life. The political mess started right after death of prophet Muhammad in early years of Islam e.g. War of the camel.
So I gave some examples from the past. If you look today however you get a bad picture and there are many reasons for why things are as they are today not how they were in the past.
Europeans, the French, the British and the Dutch conquered Arabs and Muslims. It goes without saying that Europeans are more advanced than Arabs and Muslims. Can we say that Europeans brought civilization to Arabs and Muslims?
The people that the Arabs brutally conquered already had sophisticated civilisations.
Ahh i see... The Germans Conquering Rome were more advanced... The mongols Conquering China, India (the Mughals) and coming as far as Russia were more advanced...
Show me where I have said that Arabs brought the world civilisation and the rest of the world they colonised during their empire days.
I said Islam gave the Arabs civilisation. I said that the less advanced militarily, was defeated by the more advanced. I said that if Islam did not bring some sort of civilisation to the Arabs, then they would not have been able to collectively colonise another region. I said that colonisation was a fact of life, where you either conquer or be conquered.
Whether you agree or disagree, this to me is irrelevant. You have your own views on this.
I do not condone colonisation and say that it is such a great thing, I was pointing out that Islam brought the Arabs civilisation. If you disagree with everything, or some of what I said, that to me is irrelevant as you will find various opinions on this and we'll be here all day.
No I'm not. What I'm trying to tell you is that military superiority does not necessarily mean a more advanced society, especially in ancient times.
I agree
Are you saying that India, Egypt, Persia et al existed as tribes and not states?
I think you misunderstood, I said that Islam brought the Arabs civilisation. I'll quote what I wrote earlier:
Btw I was highlighting Islamic conquests to show that Islam brought civilisation to a primitive Arab people.
I really want to move on from this, and it was really due to how I phrased what I said, so I understand why every person has criticised that point.
The guy writes well but he is trying way too hard to plug the holes. AbaAbdillah, it sounds like you have solved your problems with Islam by coming up with one convoluted argument after another - unfortunately what helped you swallow the pill is not what most Muslims believe. Adam having a 90-foot tall body in heaven then being thrown into the body of an evolved human? C'mon mate!
You sound like an intelligent and genuinely nice guy though. And I've done all the Islamic debating stuff before so I'll just sit back and enjoy.
lol I don't think that I am plugging holes. When I made my choice to follow Islam, after looking at all other religions. It was either agnosticism or Islam. The other religions to me (my opinion) had too many flaws. Islam to me offers more room to expand on and use your own intellect. It's only because the salafi's have hijacked Islam and helped spread their version, that they frown upon asking questions and using your own reasoning and intellect.
I believe in a human soul, so it is not a far stretch for me to believe what I wrote about how evolution can be bridged with Islam.
There are not many Muslims who think the way I do and I agree with you, but I am not at all ashamed to admit that. I'm not in a hurry, the Muslim world is slowly starting to realise the need for better scholars more rationality after seeing the mess the salafi's have created.
I wanted to right an introduction to clear up some things about where I stand my conclusion, but I have been getting too many questions. And when I don't reply instantly people like this guy say things like this lol:
I think he has gone..
I thank you for your compliments Eliphaz, it's appreciated.
Give AbaAbdillah some credit for the conversation
lol I thank you also.
Hey Mr. AbaAbdillah, please answer following questions:
1. Why is Allah hypocrite that in 2:30, he tells angels that he is creating Adam for earth, and in 2:36 he tells that he is expelling Adam from heaven and sending him to earth as a punishment? (even though he created him for earth at first place)
2. Why Allah wrote quran in such a way that it looks like it is written by an autistic person? (Seriously, I met autistic people in my real life and this is exactly how they behave) Repeating sentences again and again, jumping from one topic to another abruptly. These are signs of autistic people. Normal people don't do that. Highly qualified people are much better then that. Allah should be atleast trillion times better then most highly qualified people among the human beings when constructing sentences. (Trillion is just the biggest number I can think of. Allah should infact be infinite times better then that)
3. Why Allah thinks in 18:86 that sun actually sets in muddy water? Is that because he thinks earth is flat and sun actually sets in muddy water? He in fact mentioned that Zulqarnain not only witnessed that spot but also found people around it.
I will reply briefly, I can expand later, if needed.
1) God shared a knowledge from the unseen with them. He already knows the future. This doesn't mean that people have no freewill and destined for hell, otherwise it would be unjust to punish them. Just like people ask a question on the lines of "what if the future was fixed, what good would prayer do". God already knew (because of His Infinite Knowledge and being outside of space and time), that a person was going to make that crucial prayer that would of changed his/her destiny.
The Prophet (SAW) said "Nothing can change the Qadar(Fate) except the Du`a"
He also knew that Adam (as) was going to repent, so he was actually forgiven, and not punished as you put it. If you read the next verse after the one you quoted, it says:
"Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his
Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. We said: "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." 2:37-38
2) That needs a more detailed answer. I do know if you have read the Quran in Arabic, and understand Arabic well. The repetitions are to emphasis, and the Quran is not meant to be read like you would read a book from cover to cover. And some of the repetitions highlight God's attributes in relation to what is said. For example God will give an example of his Mercy and say immediately after "Allah is Most Merciful Most Kind".
3) That's a misunderstanding due to the translations. It says in Arabic that he perceived it as if it was setting in Murky waters. Even a person who the salafi's love to quote who takes literal interpretations doesn't believe what you said, and he wrote his explanation of the Quran in 1370:
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2704&Itemid=73I will reply to all the other people who have posed more questions to me:
MAS (I will reply soon don't despair)
BARDHI_I_ZI (btw you're so called "contradiction" shows that you haven't deeply looked at Islam. He is from the Jinn and not an Angel. If you did know more about Islam you would have known that Satan aka Iblis, was referred to as Azazil and was counted among the Angels due to his piety, but kept becoming more and more arrogant about himself. He later adopted the name Iblis (the one who despaired) and he wants us all to despair too.
NEW SOUL (what you wrote really touched me and I really want to reply to you first, before anyone else. I did not mean to offend you, if you read the verse after the one I quoted it will make more sense as to who the miscreants are.)
As for the rest of the people on this forum, I did not come here to debate, or preach. I saw what
MAS wrote, I told him to seek knowledge, and he wrote and I quote:
Hi AbaAbdillah
Interesting to see first response from a Muslim and I appreciate your offer
Can you answer the specific questions I have listed in my first post
Secondly what made you not leave Islam?
That was my reason for posting a response to his questions. I don't want those who joined this topic lately to assume that I came here to preach or impose, or debate. This is my original advice before he posted that question:
Salam MA5
I think you should carry on praying and beseech God and ask him for patience.
Patience is the key to overcoming struggles.
You have to find your own answers, questioning should lead to you seeking knowledge and coming up with your own conclusions.
As a Muslim, this is my advice to you. I had to go through the same think.
If you want to talk about anything let me know.
I am only doing my best and I can't respond in a quick fire manner, so if people here can be patient, and I am yet to write an introduction lol, which some people have asked me to do, due to the amount of questions left and right. And before I can respond, I get a new barrage. And then some people make it out to be like as if I am hiding or something lol.
Relax y'all!
Peace.
Topic: Hi from on the fence muslim