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Theme Changer

 Topic: Stupid, Selfish Humanity.

 (Read 23615 times)
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  • Re: Stupid, Selfish Humanity.
     Reply #210 - April 01, 2011, 06:59 PM

    Sure, Will send it sometime next week.


    But please continue grilling DB  popcorn

    "Tomorrow is the today you were worried about yesterday" Unknown
  • Re: Stupid, Selfish Humanity.
     Reply #211 - April 01, 2011, 07:00 PM

    lol not much of a grilling - he accepts this. I just wanna make sure I got the right picture. I guess I was trying to fool myself into thinking that it's not that bad.
  • Re: Stupid, Selfish Humanity.
     Reply #212 - April 01, 2011, 07:16 PM

    I get you. I don't think anyone is grilling anyone here. it's all consensual.
    Apart from  Liberated's thread i read this morning. mysmilie_977

    "Tomorrow is the today you were worried about yesterday" Unknown
  • Re: Stupid, Selfish Humanity.
     Reply #213 - April 01, 2011, 07:44 PM

    lol Liberated.
  • Re: Stupid, Selfish Humanity.
     Reply #214 - April 01, 2011, 08:18 PM

    Erm...Have you distorted bahiraomar's message for a personal agenda?
    ^ you're signature.

    "Tomorrow is the today you were worried about yesterday" Unknown
  • Re: Stupid, Selfish Humanity.
     Reply #215 - April 01, 2011, 08:19 PM

    She wants my babies.
  • Re: Stupid, Selfish Humanity.
     Reply #216 - April 01, 2011, 08:24 PM

    eh, there's Wine at church. Go for it. Afro

    "Tomorrow is the today you were worried about yesterday" Unknown
  • Re: Stupid, Selfish Humanity.
     Reply #217 - April 02, 2011, 01:20 AM

    @z10

    Quote
    (apologies to zbd if I've misrepresented your argument)


    No, that's about right. I think I just need to elaborate on it a bit more.
  • Re: Stupid, Selfish Humanity.
     Reply #218 - April 02, 2011, 01:53 AM

    @debunker

    Quote
    i understood as much but I don't understand how that implies God doesn't have absolute free-will.


    Okay. Let me try to explain.

    Humans don't have absolute free will, this we can agree on. Now, regardless of whether your god, or any god whatsoever, actually exists, humans still are not absolutely free. Even if there is no determinism, and everything  is ultimately completely random and spontaneous, humans are bound and constrained by their natures.

    Humans desire certain things, like food, warmth, the company of other humans, etc. This being so, the actions of humans are dictated by their intrinsic attributes, preferences and dispositions. It's a simple fact that they do not act completely free of these influences and thus, their will is not absolutely free. Whether or not someone or something imposed these attributes on them is irrelevant to whether their will is free or not, because either way, their will is constrained and shaped as a result of these innate preferences.

    Now, even if these attributes of God are one with his nature, it still holds true that he did not choose these qualities, and so they are still effectively 'imposed' on him, regardless of whether he likes it or not, he's stuck with them. But see, whether they were literally imposed on him by another being or whether they are just innate to him, is not relevant at all, because in both cases his will is necessarily constrained and shaped by them, he acts according to them, and not completely freely, as he perhaps would if he had no innate qualities and he did things completely spontaneously.

    So you see, you can't get out of the problem by introducing this aspect of his nature being imposed on him or not by another being; it has no bearing whatsoever on whether his actual will is constrained. And indeed, as long as this god does have these attributes innately, and he has them regardless of whether he wills it or not, and his actions and motivations are shaped by these attributes, it necessarily follows that his being cannot be free of their influences and so, as a consequence of this, his will itself cannot be absolutely free.
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