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 Topic: Moral Questions?

 (Read 13718 times)
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  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #30 - October 18, 2013, 09:46 PM
    I'm a species-ist. My loyalty is first and foremost to my own kind.
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #31 - October 18, 2013, 09:49 PM
    Actually. I take that back. As I consider the possibilities, there is a scenario in which I might see a human killed to save an animal, and that is if that human is actively, maliciously, and unnecessarily threatening the animal, particularly if it's an endangered one.
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #32 - October 18, 2013, 09:50 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on October 18, 2013, 09:46 PM
    I'm a species-ist. My loyalty is first and foremost to my own kind.

    Ah. Well I'd agree to a point, but I'm not of a fundamentalist mindset myself. Everything is shades of grey. Sometimes the shades are more distinct than others.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #33 - October 18, 2013, 09:51 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on October 18, 2013, 09:49 PM
    Actually. I take that back. As I consider the possibilities, there is a scenario in which I might see a human killed to save an animal, and that is if that human is unnecessarily threatening the animal, particularly if it's an endangered one.

    Yup, that's one obvious situation. Elephants are becoming rather scarce. Elephant poachers are not. I like elephants. Smiley
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #34 - October 18, 2013, 09:54 PM
    But if it's a random type deal, kill the elephant or I'm blowing little Johnnie's brains out, I'd kill the elephant every time.
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #35 - October 18, 2013, 09:55 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on October 18, 2013, 09:51 PM
    Yup, that's one obvious situation. Elephants are becoming rather scarce. Elephant poachers are not. I like elephants. Smiley


    I edited it a bit. Some might say that our very existence often unnecessarily threatens animals.
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #36 - October 18, 2013, 09:57 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on October 18, 2013, 09:54 PM
    But if it's a random type deal, kill the elephant or I'm blowing little Johnnie's brains out, I'd kill the elephant every time.

    Ok, so how about kill every elephant or I'm blowing little Johnny's brains out?


    Quote from: happymurtad on October 18, 2013, 09:55 PM
    I edited it a bit. Some might say that our very existence often unnecessarily threatens animals.

    Oh every life form that exists exists at the expense of something else. That's a given, whether the life form in question is human or not.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #37 - October 18, 2013, 09:58 PM
    Quote
    Ok, so how about kill every elephant or I'm blowing little Johnny's brains out?


    Not doing it.
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #38 - October 18, 2013, 09:59 PM
    You child-murdering bastard!

    (just though I should post that before someone predictably freaks)

    ETA: I agree with your stance there, by the way.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #39 - October 18, 2013, 10:01 PM
    Ok, what if little Johnny is your son?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #40 - October 18, 2013, 10:12 PM
    Oh, I actually meant initially that I wasn't saving the elephants. I can see how that was less than clear. Elephants are cool and all, but I wouldn't personally allow an innocent, unwilling human to be sacrificed to save them. It's the principle behind it. Now, as I write this, another scenario popped into my mind about killing a human to save a species whose extinction would likely soon result in the death or extinction of humans, like the bees. I don't know what I would do there, but if I did decide to have a human killed to save the bees, it wouldn't be for the sake of the bees but for our own sake.
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #41 - October 18, 2013, 10:13 PM
    Quote from: devilsadvokat on October 16, 2013, 01:26 PM
    Q1. How many animals, (we can have different animals and differing numbers)would you have killed in order to save one human life. Would you let 50,000 sheep/goats/pigs/cattle die before the tip was reached. What about chickens/ millions. Mosquitoes? Koalas? Pandas?

    Depend on the person maybe

     

    If it was an endangered species I would save the animal instead of the human.

    I would factor in the type of person. Even if it was a criminal it depends on what crime he committed and for what reason he committed it.

    For example if we were talking about Ariel Castro or Luka Rocco Magnotta I would rather save the life of one chicken then save either of their lives.

    In fact I would kill both Ariel Castro and Luka Rocco Magnotta to save the life of one chicken.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #42 - October 18, 2013, 10:17 PM
    Yeah but in that case you'd be killing Ariel Castro because you wanted to kill him, not to save the chicken. The two purposes would just happen to coincide. I don't think that counts.
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #43 - October 18, 2013, 10:17 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on October 18, 2013, 09:57 PM
    Ok, so how about kill every elephant or I'm blowing little Johnny's brains out?

     

    I would go with saving that elephants in the case.

    I just don't see think it's moral to save one human life at the expense of an entire species, especially one as intelligent as elephants.


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #44 - October 18, 2013, 10:18 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on October 18, 2013, 10:17 PM
    Yeah but in that case you'd be killing Ariel Castro because you wanted to kill him, not to save the chicken. The two purposes would just happen to coincide. I don't think that counts.

     


    No I actually meant I would want to kill Ariel Castro to save the chicken. 

    I'm leaving emotions out of the question.
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #45 - October 18, 2013, 10:18 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on October 18, 2013, 10:12 PM
    Oh, I actually meant initially that I wasn't saving the elephants. I can see how that was less than clear. Elephants are cool and all, but I wouldn't personally allow an innocent, unwilling human to be sacrificed to save them. It's the principle behind it.

    Ok, so the principle is that innocent, unwilling, carbon-based life forms shouldn't be sacrificed to save innocent, unwilling, carbon-based, life forms? Ok. Smiley


    Quote
    Now, as I write this, another scenario popped into my mind about killing a human to save a species whose extinction would likely soon result in the death or extinction of humans, like the bees. I don't know what I would do there, but if I did decide to have a human killed to save the bees, it wouldn't be for the sake of the bees but for our own sake.

    Ok, so in that particular case "don't know what I would do there" effectively equates to "might decide to kill a shitload of humans, including the one I was supposedly trying to save". Frankly, that doesn't seem all that sensible.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #46 - October 18, 2013, 10:19 PM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on October 18, 2013, 10:18 PM
    No I actually meant I would want to kill Ariel Castro to save the chicken. 

    I'm leaving emotions out of the question.

    No, you most definitely are not leaving emotions out. Cheesy
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #47 - October 18, 2013, 10:25 PM
    Quote
    Ok, so in that particular case "don't know what I would do there" effectively equates to "might decide to kill a shitload of humans, including the one I was supposedly trying to save". Frankly, that doesn't seem all that sensible.


    Which is something I'd definitely take into consideration. The "don't know what I would do there" means that I would weigh the options and make a decision after careful deliberation, not after a quick internet chat on a forum.  Tongue
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #48 - October 18, 2013, 10:28 PM
     Cheesy Fair enough.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #49 - October 18, 2013, 10:31 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on October 18, 2013, 10:19 PM
    No, you most definitely are not leaving emotions out. Cheesy

     

    If there was a choice between Ariel Castro living and the chicken living.



    Ariel Castro is ALOT more likely to go and inflict unnecessary harm on living beings where as the Chicken is not likely to do so.

    It make rational sense to let the chicken live instead of Castro.

     
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #50 - October 18, 2013, 10:44 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on October 18, 2013, 09:25 PM
    Oh alright then. Try this one: could there be any situation in which you would kill more than one human to save one animal?


    Still not more interesting, more congruous tho.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #51 - October 18, 2013, 10:46 PM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on October 18, 2013, 10:31 PM
    Ariel Castro is ALOT more likely to go and inflict unnecessary harm on living beings where as the Chicken is not likely to do so.

    It make rational sense to let the chicken live instead of Castro.

    No, it's still emotional. You're starting with an emotional assumption that preventing harm to living beings is a good thing. Not that I'm disagreeing with it, but it's fundamentally emotional rather than strictly rational.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #52 - October 20, 2013, 09:32 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on October 18, 2013, 10:18 PM
    Ok, so the principle is that innocent, unwilling, carbon-based life forms shouldn't be sacrificed to save innocent, unwilling, carbon-based, life forms? Ok. Smiley


    The first question is very, very difficult. I like the way you put it right there OS. I think of situations like these in a similar way.
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #53 - October 20, 2013, 09:44 PM
    Quote from: kutta on October 20, 2013, 09:32 PM
    The first question is very, very difficult. I like the way you put it right there OS. I think of situations like these in a similar way.


    Kutta - lol, you deliberately winding me up?

    I should change the title to abstract moral questions, or at least interesting moral questions, I had a good one today, question that is, was going to write it down, in my haste for pen and paper, clean forgot.

    Tho, can someone explain what osmanthus is on about in the quote you quoted kutta, i'd ask him but I am ignoring him.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #54 - October 20, 2013, 09:47 PM
     Cheesy Oh, the maturity.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #55 - October 20, 2013, 10:19 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on October 18, 2013, 10:46 PM
    No, it's still emotional. You're starting with an emotional assumption that preventing harm to living beings is a good thing. Not that I'm disagreeing with it, but it's fundamentally emotional rather than strictly rational.


    God that's pedantic, even for you.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #56 - October 20, 2013, 10:24 PM
    There's no situation that I can think of where you'd have to kill 50,000 animals to save a human life, hostage situations aside. And I'm not exactly sure how the kidnapper could confirm that it was actually 50,000 slaughtered, or even that these animals wouldn't be slaughtered anyway. So the situation is too weird to really be considered a moral conundrum.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #57 - October 20, 2013, 10:25 PM
    Quote from: asbie on October 20, 2013, 10:19 PM
    God that's pedantic, even for you.

    It's accurate. Sorry about that. Tongue


    Quote from: asbie on October 20, 2013, 10:24 PM
    There's no situation that I can think of where you'd have to kill 50,000 animals to save a human life, hostage situations aside. And I'm not exactly sure how the kidnapper could confirm that it was actually 50,000 slaughtered, or even that these animals wouldn't be slaughtered anyway. So the situation is too weird to really be considered a moral conundrum.

    Yeah these aren't situations that are ever likely to occur. We're just kicking ideas around.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #58 - October 20, 2013, 11:17 PM
    Yeah, but even in that case you probably wouldn't have to kill the 50,000 so the whole conundrum is made rather moot.

    You can get away with fuzzy morals is my point, as long as the compass is pointing in the right direction, if you catch my drift.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Moral Questions?
     Reply #59 - October 21, 2013, 01:43 AM
    Would you fuck your dad to save your mum's life? And just to note, mum wouldn't be confined to a bed or in pain, you fuck your dad, your mum lives a life of good health. You don't fuck your dad, she dies. The choice is yours.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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