History of Hell in Islam

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History of Hell in Islam
Reply #30 - June 12, 2015, 02:51 AM

Quote from: justperusing on June 11, 2015, 09:18 PM
It's to be expected from a species a few genes away from being primates. Our pre-frontal cortexes are too small and our adrenal glands too large.

We are primates.

Hassan, can you remember the thread where we went into how christian concepts of hell influenced islam? I remember giving some of my thoughts and showing you some pictures from a little before Mo was around from that area and you commented on how incredibly detailed they are, as if right out of the quran. One picture I showed that you commented on, I think I remember you saying "It even has the hooked rods of iron. Wow."

I've tried to find that thread a few times, came up empty. I'd be grateful if someone can give me a link.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #31 - June 12, 2015, 03:19 AM

"We are primates."

Depends on what definition we're using.

"I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
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Reply #32 - June 12, 2015, 03:21 AM

By what definition are we not?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #33 - June 12, 2015, 04:11 AM

The classical one. No need to derail this thread with technicalities

"I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
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Reply #34 - June 12, 2015, 04:42 AM

The only classical ones that come to mind turned out to be wrong and so fell out of use. I'm sure I can do a quick google on the difference between humans and primates but I'm likely to get multiple reasons, possibly none of which you're referring to.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #35 - June 12, 2015, 04:53 AM

Changed. Pretty sure I meant to say chimps originally but typed it wrong. Enough to satisfy the nit-picking of quod?

"I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
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Reply #36 - June 12, 2015, 06:22 AM

So you meant to say we aren't chimps? Not sure what you're on about. But as far as nitpicking goes( ), did you read that Spawn comic I gave you?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #37 - June 12, 2015, 07:21 AM

There are very strong arguments to reclassify homo as pan!

But on the OP, I think the heavy heaven and hell was made in Persia, and that Xianity and Islam got it from there. Did Judaism actually ever catch the heaven and hell bug?

Interestingly, Orthodox xianity possibly wasn't and isn't that interested in it.

The quote from Bede above is precisely about moving yer ordinary pagans onto heavenandhellporn.

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #38 - June 12, 2015, 07:59 AM

Some of Zaotar's first posts were about Zoroastrianism which introduced part of the Heaven/Hell dynamic during the 2nd Temple period. I will see if I can dig those up when I am not so tired.

Link to the thread: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=26914.msg770288#msg770288
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Reply #39 - June 12, 2015, 08:13 AM

From link above

Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism#History

"Achaemenid era (648–330 BCE) Zoroastrianism developed the abstract concepts of heaven and hell, as well as personal and final judgment, all of which are only alluded to in the Gathas. Yasna 19, which has only survived in a Sassanid era ([–650 CE] Zend commentary on the Ahuna Vairya invocation), prescribes a Path to Judgment known as the Chinvat Peretum or Chinvat bridge (cf: As-Sirāt in Islam), which all souls had to cross, and judgment (over thoughts, words, and deeds performed during a lifetime) was passed as they were doing so. However, the Zoroastrian personal judgment is not final. At the end of time, when evil is finally defeated, all souls will be ultimately reunited with their Fravashi. Thus, Zoroastrianism can be said to be a universalist religion with respect to salvation.

Interestingly, Orthodoxy seems to have picked up Zarathustran universal ideas, whereas Catholicism and Islam went heavy heavenandhellporn. Was there an arms race - possibly due to the crusades - between Islam and Catholicism over who has the best heavenandhellporn?

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #40 - June 12, 2015, 08:15 AM

I formally propose heavenandhellporn as a formal fetish, with books - Revelation, Quran, and many pictures, like those women in hell.

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #41 - June 12, 2015, 08:26 AM

I am quite serious about heaven and hell porn.

As we can see a progression from a Satan who is one of God's team (but Mark Twain is fascinating about this http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/twain/letearth.htm) to a heavy, isn't this identical to soft core and hard core porn?

The religions, as noted earlier, found this to be a very powerful marketing tool.

De Sade's Justine has allegedly fictional descriptions of goings on in the eighteenth century in Monasteries. The current international child abuse scandals are all part of this.

Heavenandhellporn is another directly related vector.

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #42 - June 12, 2015, 08:32 AM

I asked elsewhere if the koran might be a deliberately created war propaganda tool. Heaven and hell porn is a logical ingredient, meeting rules of use of rhetoric.

Quote
the three means of persuasion: The speech can produce persuasion either through the character of the speaker, the emotional state of the listener, or the argument (logos) itself

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-rhetoric/

As the speaker is Allah, what does that say about the speaker's character?

The emotional state of the listener is fascinating. They have carried out some fascinating gymnastic moves at strange times, and have been taught many many stories about heaven and hell.

The arguments.....

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #43 - June 12, 2015, 09:03 AM

Moi, for hellporn type 'paintings of hell' into google images. Plenty of top quality medieval and renaissance hellporn will be your reward!
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Reply #44 - June 12, 2015, 09:37 AM

Or just type in Japan.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #45 - August 04, 2015, 01:27 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=287388vONrs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ShC9-H_oyE

You crying idiot there is NO ambiguity in your crying ., you are a emotional nut case., and there is no ambiguity in Quran with reference to the verses of Hell in Quran..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lYschsArLo

Hmm Dawa fools are shepherds and unsuspected folks who are converting in to Islam because of these fools are sheep ... that is what tortoise says.. well shepherds is not a good word for these fools but may be a "fox" looking for chickens is a good word..

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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #46 - August 04, 2015, 01:55 PM

I don't like this sort of video that attacks a person. It's cheap.

Attack ideas - not people.
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