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Theme Changer

 Topic: The guardian sent me here

 (Read 12273 times)
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  • The guardian sent me here
     Reply #60 - November 02, 2015, 11:45 AM

    Quote
    For many centuries, the Muslims ruled Greece. Did the Greeks become Muslims? Did anyone even try to Islamize them? On the contrary, Christian Greeks held the highest positions in the Ottoman administration. The Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians, Hungarians and other European nations lived at one time or another under Ottoman rule and clung to their Christian faith. Nobody compelled them to become Muslims and all of them remained devoutly Christian.

    I haven't looked at the article but taking this quote on its own...

    Talking of 'Greece' before the war of independence is strictly speaking anachronistic. The Greek nation and national identity came into existence as a result of nationalism. The boundaries of the Greek state changed radically over its first century of existence. Its current boundaries are a historical accident. If Greek military adventures at the end of WW1 had been a little more successful 'Greece' would now include Thrace, Constantinople and the Aegean coast of Anatolia, along maybe with Cyprus and the Black Sea coast around Trabzon, and the borders would seem just as natural as the current borders do. What did exist throughout the Ottoman period was an identity linked to the Orthodox Church that was mainly, but never completely, Greek speaking. In Anatolia over time there was a lot conversion to Islam, which mostly also led to the adoption of the Turkish language as well. This wasn't always the case though and there are still villages in the mountains around Trabzon where the people are Muslims speaking a dialect of Pontic Greek. Elsewhere in central Anatolia there were Orthodox communities that became Turkish speaking and wrote Turkish using the Greek alphabet. In what is now mainland Greece there seems to have been much less conversion, though there were some groups of Greek Muslims. The area east of Thessaloniki may be an exception to this and the largely Muslim Turkish speaking population there probably originated in part from Greek speaking converts. The most obvious and visible example of conversion to Islam within the modern boundaries of Greece was in Crete, where the Muslims were almost entirely Greek speaking and in the early 19th century probably accounted for nearly half the population. This changed as a result of a conscious policy of ethnic cleansing by the Greek state. Hundreds of thousands of people in Turkey, Syria and elsewhere are the descendants of Muslim refugees from Crete. Some of them, especially in Syria, still speak Greek. All of them are the descendants of Greek speaking converts from Orthodox Christianity.
  • The guardian sent me here
     Reply #61 - November 02, 2015, 01:10 PM

    Your grasp of Islamic history is very poor. I will link you up with documentaries/articles by credible western and Jewish scholars and historians soon... Not saying it was perfect, but far better than has been credited.
    Uri Avnery is a Atheist Jew: (read the full article)
    Quote
    For many centuries, the Muslims ruled Greece. Did the Greeks become Muslims? Did anyone even try to Islamize them? On the contrary, Christian Greeks held the highest positions in the Ottoman administration. The Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians, Hungarians and other European nations lived at one time or another under Ottoman rule and clung to their Christian faith. Nobody compelled them to become Muslims and all of them remained devoutly Christian.



    I really begin to doubt your grasp of Islamic history and history in general.

    I'm just continuing with what both Quod and Zeca said.

    Let me give you some statistics. Around year 1000 AD, the Byzantines made a census and the population was around 16 millions, around 10-11 millions Greeks. Now the ethnic Greeks are around 15-16 millions worldwide. The historians estimates that there were less  than 6 millions Germans around 1000 AD. Now ethnic Germans make up around 150 millions despite the fact Germany has been through some terrible wars. You do now understand how terrible has been the Ottoman occupation for the Greek people? And even worse for Armenians, Assyrians, Yazidis, etc...

    In Hungary where fortunately The Ottoman occupation lasted only 150 years, it's estimated that half of population has been enslaved, massacred and deported to the other Ottoman territories , and large areas depopulated.  

    That's how bad it was under the Ottoman rule for non-Muslims.
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