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 Topic: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so

 (Read 20430 times)
  • Previous page 1 23 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #30 - November 09, 2008, 10:30 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on November 08, 2008, 09:15 PM
    It isn't a question of initiation rites. It's a question of factual content, or at least of perceptions of factual content. You made several statements which were disputed. On an international discussion board this is likely to happen. It isn't, or shouldn't be, regarded as a particularly big deal.


    Yes, you are right, some of what I wrote could be regarded as contentious, but that does not PROVE that I am incorrect. Perhaps I did not word it to suit everyone's taste, and for that reason, as I have said, I am grateful for the criticisms because as soon as I can get down to it, my remarks will be edited. But that does not mean that those who do not agree with those remarks have the right to tear it down without giving authentication that it was erroneous? That is what the web is for, to bounce ideas around and to learn from it. I have learned where I may have used inappropriate wording and it is to my benefit to be criticised. I thank everyone who took the effort to do so.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #31 - November 09, 2008, 02:35 PM
    Quote from: gonzo on November 08, 2008, 12:54 PM
    Quote from: elle on November 08, 2008, 12:41 PM
    This is a negative attitude and must change.


    I think the problem was that you came across as a self-claimed expert on Islam attempting to preach to the converted.  My disagreement wasn't with your opinions or attitudes towards Islam - many of which I share, but with the factual errors you presented.  When writing an article criticizing Islam it is essential to ensure your facts are correct, or it will be more likely to be dismissed.  Others have asked you to merely chill out not because you came across as angry but bullheaded.

    Regards,
    Gonzo 

    Gonzo: I mostly agree. However I did detect personal attacks on Elle above and beyond the article. Particularly aggravating was the fact that Elle was new, and had no idea how to separate clowns (tut,jt) from genuine people.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #32 - November 09, 2008, 02:38 PM
    I thought Tut did ok, went above being a 'clown'
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #33 - November 09, 2008, 03:29 PM
    Quote from: awais.x on November 09, 2008, 02:38 PM
    I thought Tut did ok, went above being a 'clown'

    Thanks Elle, I think you brought out the best in Tut today. And we don't have initiation rites, just a well practised way of rubbing along together.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #34 - November 09, 2008, 10:34 PM
    I am glad I have done some good here, sojournerlumus
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #35 - November 10, 2008, 08:08 AM
    Quote from: awais.x on November 09, 2008, 02:38 PM
    I thought Tut did ok, went above being a 'clown'

    Yes Tut's last Two posts were normal. But my clock started a little bit earlier then the last 2 posts.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #36 - November 10, 2008, 12:05 PM
    Sorry, I have only been here a few days and I have no idea who is who and what they are like. As far as I am concerned, everyone is the same to me, except some are friendlier than others.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #37 - November 10, 2008, 03:25 PM
    Quote from: elle on November 10, 2008, 12:05 PM
    Sorry, I have only been here a few days



    Seems like much longer Smiley
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #38 - November 10, 2008, 05:40 PM
    JackTorrance: My first post here was on 06:11:08 at 3:44 PM It is now 17:38 on 10:11;08 That makes it 3 and a bit days. So it will take a little while to find out who has what views.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #39 - November 10, 2008, 05:46 PM
    Quote from: elle on November 10, 2008, 05:40 PM
    JackTorrance: My first post here was on 06:11:08 at 3:44 PM It is now 17:38 on 10:11;08 That makes it 3 and a bit days. So it will take a little while to find out who has what views.



    Yeah, I guess you're right, How are you finding settling in? Have you been on many forums before? Are you a campaigner?
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #40 - November 10, 2008, 06:54 PM
    JackTorrance, I guess I should call myself an old hand at Forums/blogging> I started with Google Groups Forums almost when they offered that service to the public and have owned and managed several Google groups myself. I was very active with the DailyTelegraph Blogs almost from its inception. I have never yet been banned or excluded from any group although I have unsubscribed myself from several.

    I once knew nothing about Islam/Buddhism/Hinduism/Taoism/Imperialism but through research I know quite a lot today. And I would now like to share what I have learned with anyone who will listen. No, I only attempt to look at the truth, hopefully without bias, and to draw my own conclusions based on historical and evidential facts. I believe I do not have any political or religious bias except I will call a Spade a Spade even if it is coloured Black.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #41 - November 10, 2008, 07:11 PM
    Quote from: elle on November 10, 2008, 06:54 PM
    JackTorrance, I guess I should call myself an old hand at Forums/blogging> I started with Google Groups Forums almost when they offered that service to the public and have owned and managed several Google groups myself. I was very active with the DailyTelegraph Blogs almost from its inception. I have never yet been banned or excluded from any group although I have unsubscribed myself from several.

    I once knew nothing about Islam/Buddhism/Hinduism/Taoism/Imperialism but through research I know quite a lot today. And I would now like to share what I have learned with anyone who will listen. No, I only attempt to look at the truth, hopefully without bias, and to draw my own conclusions based on historical and evidential facts. I believe I do not have any political or religious bias except I will call a Spade a Spade even if it is coloured Black.

    Excuse me, Daily Telegraph, no bias? That tells me everything.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #42 - November 10, 2008, 07:15 PM
    Quote
    I was very active with the DailyTelegraph Blogs almost from its inception.


    Everybody has a political or religious bias of some sort, and that includes readers of the Daily Telegraph.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #43 - November 10, 2008, 07:19 PM
    Especially readers (excuse the slight kneejerk) of the chain-maily bellylaugh.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #44 - November 10, 2008, 07:21 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on November 10, 2008, 07:19 PM
    Especially readers (excuse the slight kneejerk) of the chain-maily bellylaugh.


    Well, I've never read the thing, but I wouldn't trust it as an impartial political source, because there's no such thing.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #45 - November 10, 2008, 07:43 PM
    Do the words 'seigheil' and 'tory faced bastard' mean anything to you?
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #46 - November 10, 2008, 09:06 PM
    Never heard them before. Wouldn't know what they mean.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #47 - November 10, 2008, 09:23 PM
    Quote

    Excuse me, Daily Telegraph, no bias? That tells me everything.

    Sorry, I do not recall that I ever said that the Daily Telegraph had no bias?
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #48 - November 10, 2008, 09:42 PM
    Quote from: elle on November 10, 2008, 09:23 PM
    Quote

    Excuse me, Daily Telegraph, no bias? That tells me everything.

    Sorry, I do not recall that I ever said that the Daily Telegraph had no bias?


    Everybody has some extent of bias.

    Where do you get your facts from which you base your views/arguments on, on CEMB? The internet? Newspapers? Magazines? They are full of bias!
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #49 - November 10, 2008, 09:50 PM
    heartbomb, some people have perception and some do not, some have powers of cognisance others do not. That make the differences in peoples perceptions. Some remember and follow by rote and without question and call it devoted faith others look and question. A lot depends on how your mind works and how it was conditioned.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #50 - November 10, 2008, 09:54 PM
    Quote from: elle on November 10, 2008, 09:50 PM
    heartbomb, some people have perception and some do not, some have powers of cognisance others do not. That make the differences in peoples perceptions. Some remember and follow by rote and without question and call it devoted faith others look and question. A lot depends on how your mind works and how it was conditioned.


    That doesn't refute that everybody has some extent of bias.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #51 - November 11, 2008, 07:42 AM
    heartbomb it could mean that some people are very conditioned in their perceptions, and to me that spells one word, bigotry.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #52 - November 11, 2008, 07:46 AM
    Not necessarily. Not everyone who is slightly bias can be classified as a bigot. A bigot is someone who is intolerant towards another individual, or group of individuals because of their choice of lifestyle, religion or culture.

    If a news source was to incite hatred towards a certain group through bias, that would be bigotry.

    Everyone is conditioned in their perception, even you.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #53 - November 11, 2008, 06:13 PM
    Hearthomb: Merrian-Webster's definition:

    Bigot:: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices ; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

    I refer to the first, you may be referring to the latter.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #54 - November 12, 2008, 01:53 AM
    You seem to refer to the English dictionary a lot. Maybe I should clarify that it's all well and easy to define a word using a dictionary, but a definition is often derived from the context of it's use.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #55 - November 12, 2008, 01:57 AM
    I must stress that it is the intent behind a word that really matters, the semantics. A word with no intent has no meaning. Semantics plays a huge role in the way we communicate a certain word.

    Bigotry is a very widely and loosely used term. Even though you say that everyone is limited by their perception, how does that refute my point that everyone has some form of bias? As humans, we are far from perfect.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #56 - November 12, 2008, 10:01 AM
    Heartbomb, of course anyone with an opinion will find some other person with another opinion. Who is right? Only one person has no bias, and that is god.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #57 - November 12, 2008, 10:02 AM
    God is seen as an entity not a person.  Wink
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #58 - November 12, 2008, 10:02 AM
    Quote from: elle on November 12, 2008, 10:01 AM
    Only one person has no bias, and that is god.

    god is dead
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Define a Muslim, and a Ex-Muslim, and explain why it is so
     Reply #59 - November 12, 2008, 10:04 AM
    Xipe Totec FTW!  dance
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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