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Theme Changer

 Topic: Mohammad, the Pedophile

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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #420 - December 28, 2009, 02:50 AM

    Jesus wept. Just when you think you have heard all there is to hear about Mo, you hear another thing so vile and disgusting. And this is insaan al kamil, the perfect man for eternity? Did his creepiness and perversion know no boundaries?

    What disgusts me is that people SEE HIM as a SAINT, I used to at one point but only because his characters is adorned WAY more then it needs to be.  =/

    "A donkey with a load of holy books is still a donkey"-Sufi Proverb

    "Where there is great doubt, there will be great awakening; small doubt, small awakening, no doubt, no awakening."-Zen Saying
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #421 - December 28, 2009, 03:17 AM

    The story of Muhammad's life makes me astagfirullah like I've never astagfirullah'd before.

    It makes me want to say "Salla Allahu Allaihi Wa Sallam" everytime I say his name. Maybe Allah will not punish him so hard if I say it.


    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #422 - December 28, 2009, 04:08 AM

    @BLACKDOG

    One of the muslim I met asked me to read the same book  "Losing my religion". I asked him the question why Allah tests us when he is all knowing . He asked me to read the chapter 1 from the book which tells us why Allah tests us. I couldnt find the book. Can you tell me what it says about Allah testing us? I suppose you have read the book. I want to know this so that I can prepare a response.I would be grateful to you if you could just summarize .
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #423 - December 28, 2009, 04:16 AM

    Quote from: Baal
    In the last year of his life he saw a baby girl and said she will soon 'grow up' to become his wife. He was 62. How much 'growing up' you think he meant?


    It cannot be definitely 15-18 . Its evident from his marriage with Aisha at the age of 6. Muhhamad would certainly not marry Aisha at 6 if he didnt consider 6 as  grown up.So grown up here means anywhere after 6.We can also prove this using 65:4 that marrying pre pubescent girls is allowed.According to hadiths,tafsirs and quran one can marry prepubescent kids so they must be considered as grown ups.

    Also  how can anyone get a thought of marrying after seeing a baby? No matter what age Muhhamad meant by saying "after she grows up" , getting such a thought after seeing a baby itself is disgusting!
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #424 - December 28, 2009, 07:16 AM

    It makes me want to say "Salla Allahu Allaihi Wa Sallam" everytime I say his name. Maybe Allah will not punish him so hard if I say it.




    ROTFL

    Btw habibi does that means prayer as in salat? Or prayer as in blessings? Salamat?



    Also, can you take a quick look at this? I tried to Google Translate but the results are a mess.
    ---------------------------------


    It is permissible for a father to give his minor daughter away in marriage as the wali (guardian).



    In such a situation, sexual intercourse will be prohibited with her until she matures or her body is fit for that.



    In fact, even if the wife is an adult and is unfit for intercourse, then too intercourse is prohibited.



    ويجوز نكاح الصغير والصغيرة إذا زوجهما الولي بكرا كانت الصغيرة أو ثيبا

    (Al-Hidaya, 2/316, Maktaba Shirkah)



    واختلفوا في وقت الدخول بالصغيرة فقيل لا يدخل بها ما لم تبلغ وقيل يدخل بها إذا بلغت تسع سنين ، كذا في البحر الرائق .

    وأكثر المشايخ على أنه لا عبرة للسن في هذا الباب وإنما العبرة للطاقة إن كانت ضخمة سمينة تطيق الرجال ولا يخاف عليها المرض من ذلك ؛ كان للزوج أن يدخل بها ، وإن لم تبلغ تسع سنين ، وإن كانت نحيفة مهزولة لا تطيق الجماع ويخاف عليها المرض لا يحل للزوج أن يدخل بها ، وإن كبر سنها وهو الصحيح

    (Fatawa al-Hindiyya, 1/316, Ilmiyya)



    الثاني واختلفوا في وقت الدخول بالصغيرة ، فقيل لا يدخل بها ما لم تبلغ ، وقيل يدخل بها إذا بلغت تسع سنين وقيل إن كانت سمينة جسيمة تطيق الجماع يدخل بها وإلا فلا

    (Al-Bahr al-Raaiq, 3/119-120, Rashidiyya)





    وقد صرحوا عندنا بأن الزوجة إذا كانت صغيرة لا تطيق الوطء لا تسلم إلى الزوج حتى تطيقه .

    والصحيح أنه غير مقدر بالسن بل يفوض إلى القاضي بالنظر إليها من سمن أو هزال .وقدمنا عن التتارخانية أن البالغة إذا كانت لا تحتمل لا يؤمر بدفعها إلى الزوج أيضا ، فقوله لا تحتمل يشمل ما لو كان لضعفها أو هزالها أو لكبر آلته .

    وفي الأشباه من أحكام غيبوبة الحشفة فيما يحرم على الزوج وطء زوجته مع بقاء النكاح قال : وفيما إذا كانت لا تحتمله لصغر أو مرض أو سمنة . فعلم من هذا كله أنه لا يحل له وطؤها بما يؤدي إلى إضرارها

    فيقتصر على ما تطيق منه عددا بنظر القاضي أو إخبار النساء ، وإن لم يعلم بذلك فبقولها وكذا في غلظ الآلة ، ويؤمر في طولها بإدخال قدر ما تطيقه منها أو بقدر آلة الرجل معتدل الخلقة ، والله تعالى أعلم

    (Raddul Muhtar, 3/204, HM Saeed)



    (Fatawa Mahmudiyya, 18/627, Faruqiyya)
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #425 - December 28, 2009, 07:25 AM

    @BLACKDOG

    One of the muslim I met asked me to read the same book  "Losing my religion". I asked him the question why Allah tests us when he is all knowing . He asked me to read the chapter 1 from the book which tells us why Allah tests us. I couldnt find the book. Can you tell me what it says about Allah testing us? I suppose you have read the book. I want to know this so that I can prepare a response.I would be grateful to you if you could just summarize .


    I feel like cursing. MOTHERFUCKDONKEYFUCKER. Yeah the first chapter. WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT WHAT JEFFERY LANG THINKS? Was Jeffery Lang raped, mutilated, did he have acid thrown in his face, shot at, tortured? No? Even if he went through every single of one these things, and he still believed what the fuck would that prove? This argument is moronic. But I used to fall for it all the time, like a innocent school-girl walking into a big, dark van because the driver said "I?ll just drive you down the block, it's dark outside and somebody might hurt you".

    Anyways, summary, he said his main reason for not believing in God was because Pain was around. His father was a raging alcoholic who beat up his mother routinely, and him as well, along with his brothers. He lived in a shitty neighbourhood and refused to believe in God out of this reason MORE or LESS. He read the Quran, he hade many difficulties, but says because the passage of the Angels going "Why would you let a vicegerent on earth that will cause bloodshed when you have us" and God goes "D'Fuck do you care? Now shut the fuck up and prostrate before I bitch slap you". So this somehow made sense, and he goes at a diatribe how this along with feelings of faith when praying, reading Quran churning in his wee little belly made him go Allah Hu SnaaAkbar.  

    But I have a request, I beg you, I implore you, please read it yourself Smiley I think I?m a bit too angry right now, and my above post might show why.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #426 - December 28, 2009, 07:29 AM

    Everybody else needs to read this:

    From this site: http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=3cf3014d2b3296e55afa30dfca4275bf

    Quote

    QUESTION:
    There is a issue which has been troubling me and affecting my iman greatly.

    I read your paper: http://www.al-inaam.com/Books/ETIQUETTES_MARITAL.pdf but couldnt find an answer to my question

    As confirmed by the four majour schools of thought it is allowed in Islam for a father in Islam to give his prepubescent daughter in marriage without her consent.

    From what I understand these schools also say that a man can have sexual relations with that prepubescent girl which do not harm her ie fondelling, touching etc as the Nikkah contract has been performed and her body is legal for him to enjoy.

    So a father can give his 3yr old daughter to a grown man for nikah and that man can enjoy that child sexually as long as she is not harmed by penetration.

    Please can you clarify this issue for me.   

    ANSWER:
    It is permissible for a father to give his minor daughter away in marriage as the wali (guardian).

    In such a situation, sexual intercourse will be prohibited with her until she matures or her body is fit for that.

    In fact, even if the wife is an adult and is unfit for intercourse, then too intercourse is prohibited.


        
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #427 - December 28, 2009, 07:40 PM

    Everybody else needs to read this:

    From this site: http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=3cf3014d2b3296e55afa30dfca4275bf
        


    So basically the imam is saying that it is permissible for the guardian or parent to give his/her daughter away for marriage without her consent to a man who can however old? On top of that he does not deny sexual molestation but says just intercourse is forbidden until her body is 'fit' for it. All this explained casually makes me somewhat sick and angry.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #428 - December 28, 2009, 08:09 PM

    Wow - just wow BlackDog 

    Why don't they include stuff like this when producing the leaflets and posters of FAQ's about Islam during Islam Awareness Week and all that kind of thing  Roll Eyes

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #429 - December 28, 2009, 08:11 PM

    * Panoptic, the fvck what mehammad did, does not exhibit the behavioral terms. The reality of Mohammad's action contradicts the statement you made.
    * He had an adult wife and still preferred a child.
    * Later he had a dozen wives, and the child was still his favored.
    * When One adult wife realized he will divorce her, she offered her day to the child, so he kept that adult wife.
    * All his wives were pretty much as young as he could get away with.
    * In the last year of his life he saw a baby girl and said she will soon 'grow up' to become his wife. He was 62. How much 'growing up' you think he meant?
    As it is, your reluctance to use something (i.e. psychology for social policy), does not give you the right to make a wrong statement regarding what you are reluctant to use.


    He wasn't primarily attracted to children.

    I know therapists who work with paedophiles.

    Perfectly 'normal' heterosexual men abuse children. Society still has problems admitting it. Insist on it if you want, though. I didn't write textbooks or tell institutions what to call things.

    Quote
    Excellent, so since Arabs decided to take the word 'television' then they can have televisions in their countries. But since the Arabs decided to not take the word 'pedophile', then the arab world does not have pedophiles either. Just like Iran does not have homosexuals either.


    It's not like they collectively make a decision to use the word. There are a number of reasons why some words aren't widely used, one would be the prevalence of psychology, another the willingness to tackle the problem by patriarchal governments and societies.

    Quote
    You are a good preacher Panoptic, but you need to work on your material a bit more.


    I'm not preaching. Roll Eyes Call him what you want.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #430 - December 28, 2009, 08:49 PM

    It cannot be definitely 15-18 . Its evident from his marriage with Aisha at the age of 6. Muhhamad would certainly not marry Aisha at 6 if he didnt consider 6 as  grown up.So grown up here means anywhere after 6.We can also prove this using 65:4 that marrying pre pubescent girls is allowed.According to hadiths,tafsirs and quran one can marry prepubescent kids so they must be considered as grown ups.

    Also  how can anyone get a thought of marrying after seeing a baby? No matter what age Muhhamad meant by saying "after she grows up" , getting such a thought after seeing a baby itself is disgusting!



    I don't think he saw her as an adult. He kept his friend, cant remember which one, from marrying his own daughter, who was older than Aisha. According to 65:4 and several ahadith, there is a conscious recognition of the fact that girls who have not yet reached puberty, and therefore adulthood (by their own terms), can be married, nor is there a Quranic injunction against having sex with a wife who fits this description.

    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #431 - December 28, 2009, 08:56 PM

    I don't think he saw her as an adult. He kept his friend, cant remember which one, from marrying his own daughter, who was older than Aisha. According to 65:4 and several ahadith, there is a conscious recognition of the fact that girls who have not yet reached puberty, and therefore adulthood (by their own terms), can be married, nor is there a Quranic injunction against having sex with a wife who fits this description.


    Well the link by blackdog shows that they can get married but intercourse is not permissible. However, the Imam never denied any other forms of sexual contact.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #432 - December 28, 2009, 08:59 PM

    @Angel54

    You're talking about Ali, his cousin. Abu Bakr and another companion wanted to marry Fathima when was 10. Mo said she is too young. SHe got married to ALi when she was 12. Not sure how old he was, in his 20's? Also somebody wanted Ali to marry their daughter, and Mo said no. What hurts Fatima hurts me, if Ali wants to marry another woman he needs to divorce Fatima.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #433 - December 28, 2009, 09:01 PM

    Well the link by blackdog shows that they can get married but intercourse is not permissible. However, the Imam never denied any other forms of sexual contact.


    Yes the logic is because they havn't had their menses, therefor no penetration. Everything else is ok. Although we dont read that Aisha had her menses and she was still playing with dolls. Al though Mo was married to Aisha when she was 6? Who knows if he was frotting with her? But there is no proof of that.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #434 - December 28, 2009, 09:02 PM

    Wow - just wow BlackDog 

    Why don't they include stuff like this when producing the leaflets and posters of FAQ's about Islam during Islam Awareness Week and all that kind of thing  Roll Eyes


    It's up to us mate. We need to start writing, academic, well researched articles. And send them to the exact same places the dawaghandis go to. Damn now I do feel like a traitor. Nobody in their right mind would do any of this today. But it is done. And this is the actual religion of Islam. There is no denying it.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #435 - December 28, 2009, 09:08 PM

    Yes the logic is because they havn't had their menses, therefor no penetration. Everything else is ok. Although we dont read that Aisha had her menses and she was still playing with dolls. Al though Mo was married to Aisha when she was 6? Who knows if he was frotting with her? But there is no proof of that.


    I know there is no evidence for this but I amore ashamed that the Imam in the question did not even think to address that part, he just said no intercourse - kind of vague really since that could be interpreted as everything apart from sex is ok. I'm not a violent person but if I cam across such a person I would struggle to restrain myself from punching him in the face.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #436 - December 28, 2009, 11:11 PM

    Well the link by blackdog shows that they can get married but intercourse is not permissible. However, the Imam never denied any other forms of sexual contact.


    Yeah, but its based on a bunch of other fatwas I think, so we have another case of somebody being more compassionate than the Quran, if you can call it that. I cant read Arabic so I don't know what any of that stuff underneath says. Are any of them hadiths? Im not aware of any that prohibit sex or sexual acts with children. And as was said above, the imam's fatwa doesn't go far enough by doing so.

    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #437 - December 28, 2009, 11:18 PM

    Yeah, but its based on a bunch of other fatwas I think, so we have another case of somebody being more compassionate than the Quran, if you can call it that. I cant read Arabic so I don't know what any of that stuff underneath says. Are any of them hadiths? Im not aware of any that prohibit sex or sexual acts with children. And as was said above, the imam's fatwa doesn't go far enough by doing so.


    Ye i know read my post above your last one.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #438 - December 29, 2009, 12:31 AM

    Oh whoops sorry, I thought it was said by someone else grin12

    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #439 - December 29, 2009, 12:34 AM

    Oh whoops sorry, I thought it was said by someone else grin12


    No worries. Are u an ex-muslim? I might have forgotten your introductory post.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #440 - December 29, 2009, 01:01 AM

    Yeah I am--living in Canada. I joined back in June I think, but didnt post til abt August.

    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #441 - December 29, 2009, 01:05 AM

    Yeah I am--living in Canada. I joined back in June I think, but didnt post til abt August.


    Koool. I started posting on this site round about Ramadhan period as well. Came here as a Muslim would u believe it?
    Times have changed.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #442 - December 29, 2009, 01:11 AM

    Lol, I know, my thinking is so different from 6 months ago. I wonder how Muslims come here and still believe in Islam after everything. How much of a believer were you?

    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #443 - December 29, 2009, 01:19 AM

    Must have been a very liberal Muslim by the time I came here. I remember I messaged Hassan on youtube and told him I was curious 2 know what made him leave he directed me to here and his videos. I hated the intellectual inconsistency of being a liberal Muslim. I had basically, as many Muslims do, shaped my own form of Islam from the concepts in the Qur'an I found to be inspiring and of good value, and tried to rationalised the bullshit and other bad stuff. I ad many doubts. I'm assuming you were already an ex-muslim before u came ?

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #444 - December 29, 2009, 01:30 AM

    Pretty much. Id started researching islam because of an ex born again xtian friend of mine--still belives in jesus though- dont know how that works. I went through some agnostic/atheist facebook groups and found that there were some muslims turned agnostic or atheist (who knew such a thing existed??). at the time i found the idea of an ex muslim novel. I never liked the religion but i assumed you could never leave. After doing some research about the history of islam and the other two I found this site. spent many hours a day soakin it up and there was no way i could turn back after that. the whole thing took abt 3 days.

    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #445 - December 29, 2009, 01:37 AM

    Pretty much. Id started researching islam because of an ex born again xtian friend of mine--still belives in jesus though- dont know how that works. I went through some agnostic/atheist facebook groups and found that there were some muslims turned agnostic or atheist (who knew such a thing existed??). at the time i found the idea of an ex muslim novel. I never liked the religion but i assumed you could never leave. After doing some research about the history of islam and the other two I found this site. spent many hours a day soakin it up and there was no way i could turn back after that. the whole thing took abt 3 days.


    Ye i never knew lol. Interesting story though. Once u lose faith that's the end of it I think.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #446 - December 29, 2009, 02:10 AM

    Yeah thats true. though somehow, some people manage to gain it back. Not many, but still, the minds a pretty fuckin funny thing sometimes.

    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #447 - December 29, 2009, 05:16 AM

    Well the link by blackdog shows that they can get married but intercourse is not permissible. However, the Imam never denied any other forms of sexual contact.

    The link states that intercourse is not permissible only if she can not withstand intercourse.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #448 - December 29, 2009, 01:07 PM

    I don't think he saw her as an adult. He kept his friend, cant remember which one, from marrying his own daughter, who was older than Aisha. According to 65:4 and several ahadith, there is a conscious recognition of the fact that girls who have not yet reached puberty, and therefore adulthood (by their own terms), can be married, nor is there a Quranic injunction against having sex with a wife who fits this description.


    I think Muhhamad considered some age  limit for a girl to get married otherwise why would he say I will wait till she grows up? Why not marry the baby right away?


    The point that I wanted to make was that while debating a muslim he is bound to tell us that Muhhamad didnt specify the age at which he will marry that baby so you cant say that Muhhamad wanted to marry a kid and hence is a paedophile.


    In such a case to refute him we can show him that since Muhhamad married Aisha at 6 he must be considering 6 as  " grown up " so anything after 6 must be grown up for Muhhamad. Tafsirs and hadiths also back your claim when they say you can marry a pre pubescent kid. So while debating a muslim you can always say that grown up here means anything after 6.


    Edit:

    Muhhamad refusing to marry his daughter with Ali at 10 because she was too young further adds to muslim's woes as it makes Muhhamad a hypocrite.That is a different story!
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #449 - December 29, 2009, 01:10 PM

    It took me so long to accept that it's a 7th century practise and we don't do it anymore. The man is not fit to be a leader for the 21th century. End of story.

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