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Theme Changer

 Topic: Religious Post Traumatic Stress

 (Read 6044 times)
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  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     OP - January 21, 2014, 09:49 PM

    I have now been out of Islam for five years after having been Muslim for the previous 15 as an intensely religious Salafi Muslim.
    The experiences and sacrifices I made in my life and career in the name of Islam are enormous.  I was only 21 years old with a bright future ahead of me. Long story short, I threw it all away in the name of this and that being "haram" and what have you. Fast forward fifteen years and I'm a 36 year old trying to rebuild (build) my life essentially from scratch. I did not have any credit cards or own a home (because of prohibitions on "riba"). And because I spent all of my extra money on "trying to establish the dawah", attending Islamic conferences, going to Hajj and Umrah and making other such trips, I didn't have any savings to speak of. I was broke and broken.

    Another issue was that being a strong adherent to the concept of wala wal bara (those unfamiliar with the concept, and with the stomach can read about it here: http://altahleel.com/assets/uploads/media/ebooks/all-muslims/Aqeedah%28Creed%29/alwalaawalbaraa.pdf) ALL of my friends and associates were Muslim. I did not have any non-Muslim friends and as much as I would have liked to maintain a few of my Muslim relationships, for them that was simply an impossibility.

    I managed to rekindle a few old friendships from the past, but things just weren't the same. While still friendly and it was great to catch up, they had moved on with their lives. It had been 15 years. They had different (regular) experiences. And they could not relate to what I had gone through as a Muslim.  This was also the case with my family. In those 15 years I missed weddings, births, funerals, vacations, Christmases, Thanksgivings and so much more. I can remember going through my family photo album and seeing so many events I had missed.

    Plus a lot of "regular" things for them were quite new to me. For example, having not listened to music in 15 years, I was unfamiliar with a lot of songs and pop culture references. I was damaged. My saving grace was that I have some close friends that also left Islam.

    Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a "pity me" post because I could go on and on with my mistakes.

    The issue that made me realize that I may be suffering from some sort of mental trauma is that I have had a recurring nightmare over the past 4 years or so in which I find myself trapped back at the masjid against my will and/or being forced to be Muslim again. I had the nightmare AGAIN just last night, and the fact that it keeps coming back tells me that the trauma I suffered was much deeper. This is a big reason why this forum is so very important. We can share these things and understand them on a level that NO ONE ELSE can.

    Doing some reading I have found that many ex-cult members (and the brand of Islam I was in was indeed a CULT) suffer from a form of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Some of the symptoms I think I personally suffer from are:

    - intense sense of shame and guilt (HOW, could I have been so stupid?? Why didn't I leave earlier? Look at my life now that I have sacrificed for Islam! I feel embarrassed.)
    - preoccupation with thoughts of anger at leaders of the cult (That dickhead LIED to me to get me to convert!! But I remained Muslim anyway [see point above]. At various times my anger at myself and/or the 'leaders' was so intense it was paralyzing and admittedly unhealthy)
    - sense of loneliness and difference from others, belief no other person can understand (self explanatory)
    - persistent distrust/expecting the worse in people (hard to develop new bonds when you've been burned)
    - recurring dreams/nightmares (been having those for four years)
    - isolation and withdrawal (many times I am happier just sitting by myself)

    When I get enough money, I plan to get some counseling, but in all honesty, what psychologist really understands these issues? I also know that on an intellectual level, I should "get over it", but that is much easier said than done.

    I can imagine that with born Muslims it would be the opposite with family and friends. In other words, the sadness that one will possibly miss future weddings, births, funerals, and holidays with the family. Eid was never much of a holiday for me as a convert, but I know that it can be a festive occasion for Muslim families. The sense of loss must be devastating. This is why the respect I have for those who "come out" to their families is very high. There are many who would rather remain "in the closet" because the cost is so high.

    All in all, I am very glad to have this forum and others' blogs who have so graciously shared their similar experiences. Although I did not formally join this forum until a couple of months ago, I would regularly read the posts and other similar blogs. It is therapeutic to see that others had the same exact thoughts and experiences. Never underestimate the importance of the sense of community that these forums establish!
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #1 - January 21, 2014, 10:45 PM

    You had 21 years of happiness? You bastard!

    But in all sincerity, yes I do sometimes feel sad and angry for myself when I start thinking back. But I'm also happy that I'm out so I try to hold on to that. I think you know what you should do and that's to try to stop beating yourself over it. At least it didn't take you another 50+ or 70+ more years of your life, and I think you more than anyone knows how lucky you are under the circumstances.
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #2 - January 21, 2014, 10:52 PM

    You had 21 years of happiness, you bastard!


    Indeed I did! Forgot to mention that I was perfectly happy before I ran into a da'ee. Haven't been truly happy since then
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #3 - January 21, 2014, 10:56 PM

    I co-sign everything you just said, Ex-Salafy. It's hard to add any more. Nails and heads.
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #4 - January 22, 2014, 12:11 AM

    At least it didn't take you another 50+ or 70+ more years of your life, and I think you more than anyone knows how lucky you are under the circumstances.


    Yes indeed. I know some people who - though I have no way to prove it - I am convinced that if they had to do over, they would NOT convert. Some of them dove in much deeper than I did and reach a certain point of no return. I know a person that was right on the verge of "apostasy" before he turned on his heels. He changed his name to an Arabic name, got married and has 6 children he's raised as Muslim and taught that Islam is the absolute truth all of these years. There was just no 'clean' way that he could see to "apostate". I know that he must think about all of the proof I showed him and we discussed THOROUGHLY (and he agreed) that showed that Islam was not divine.

    Anyway, he went back and is still living life as a Muslim. I am glad to not be in that situation.

    I could have easily chosen to be a B-Ser and become a "professional Muslim" (while keeping my disbelief quiet) and cash in as some others have done (I suspect that some of the more famous professional Muslims are closet atheists). Seems some Muslims would prefer people do that to openly disbelieving.
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #5 - January 22, 2014, 12:26 AM

    Wow. Your story closely mirrors my own, and I have experienced nearly everything you described to a T, including the recurring dreams and all the other symptoms you listed. It's hard to find people who can even come close to understanding, which is why this forum is so valuable and has been such a staple for me the past six years. yes

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #6 - January 22, 2014, 12:31 AM

    Quote
    We've heard confusing drivel like this our whole lifes. Growing up means religion, reality, and relationships all start having the most rancid orgy of lies in the basement of your brain. So you try shooing em off with words, with ideas, and with empathy. Everytime thinking its your last. You try to weaponise your thoughts, to deliver that one perfected peice of excerpt. You know? The one thats supposed to cure ignorance, but only ends up encouraging it. Contamination levels are off the scale, so now your left with your only option. You seal off that basement, and you've done what you had to do in order to keep your own values alive.

    But no matter how committed you are to your newly found sense of morality, they always find a way back in, dont they? And you always think they're gonna pop back in through the vents or throught the walls. But no, you think you're different this time. You're too old for suprises now, you're watching out for that shit. Until they come wandering thru the front door wearing those familiar faces. And thats when it hurts the most.

    But hey! On the bright side if he's right. You're definitely Hunger games ready.


    Sans a Saudi apostate friend.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #7 - January 22, 2014, 01:39 AM

    It's the rare person who leaves islam (or other intense faiths/cults) and doesn't feel what you feel.

    Let me ask you a question. Do you ever miss it? Even though you may think it's damaging, even though you know it's bullshit, do you ever think about the past and long for it even though you think you shouldn't? If you do, let me be the first to tell you you're not alone in that.

    Islam was such a big part of your life. Your entire identity was muslim. It's s huge thing to no longer believe in. There's no shame in feeling this way. There's a song I came across years ago I used tolistn to a lot. In a way it was like it was describing me (mockingly) but I thought I'd share it. I got to the point I could listen to it, shake my head and just laugh at myself. Over it now.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3V2Ium02gQ

    More when I'm sober Wink

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #8 - January 22, 2014, 03:08 AM

    http://journeyfree.org/rts/

    That brings a little clarity.

    You and I have similar experiences.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #9 - January 22, 2014, 03:18 AM



    I could have easily chosen to be a B-Ser and become a "professional Muslim" (while keeping my disbelief quiet) and cash in as some others have done (I suspect that some of the more famous professional Muslims are closet atheists). Seems some Muslims would prefer people do that to openly disbelieving.


    My life would be easier right now if I had done this. I wanted to do the right thing, though, instead. I have lost my Muslim discount and gotten off the Ummah train.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #10 - January 22, 2014, 03:20 AM

    Let me ask you a question. Do you ever miss it? Even though you may think it's damaging, even though you know it's bullshit, do you ever think about the past and long for it even though you think you shouldn't?


    Honestly, I can't say that I do. As I said, there are a few relationships that I wish that I could have maintained though. To put this in context, in my circle (the Salafi world) it was hyper-critical, filled with judgement and religious hair splitting and social policing from others. Someone checking the length of your thobe. Someone checking your "manhaj" (methodology). And on and on. Maintaining one's good standing as a good and proper salafi was very stressful way of life.

    On the other hand, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that every single moment was hell by any means. There was a sense of community (the hypercritical atmosphere not withstanding) that I do look back on and smile at times. Guys were really "down" with you when they were close. I think this sense of community is what religion brings. But overall I can't say that I miss it.
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #11 - January 22, 2014, 03:25 AM

    http://journeyfree.org/rts/

    That brings a little clarity.

    You and I have similar experiences.


    Thanks for that link. It really brings clarity
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #12 - January 22, 2014, 03:36 AM

    Anytime. Someone on here gave it to me, I wish I could remember who, so I could give a shout out.
    I have had a really tough time with the internal shifting away from Islamic thought. It has been a very slow process for me.
    That link reminded me that other people have the same problem, all of us who are leaving a religious system, that Islam is not the only thing that grips the mind and won't let go. Besides the fact that it is accurate.
    When I first came to this forum, I was terrified. In my intro thread, I got such great support and advice, I stayed. In the short months since then, I am changed. I swear.
    My therapist, (I do hope you can get to one soon) says the change is so profound, that she wants to do all my testing over, from just a year ago. This is from CEMB and DA, only. There is nothing else different in my life. In fact, I might test normal.
    I am grateful.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #13 - January 22, 2014, 11:15 AM

    Thank you for sharing your story Ex-Salafi. I was a Muslim for 9 years, the difference with me was that even during the 5 or so years I was radical (like, jihadi, salafi strict radical), I never let go of my dreams and aspirations. the last 3 years or so I slowly de-radicalised and started my de-islamization process so once I renounced the faith both in heart and in practice, it felt liberating more than anything. That is why I alsways felt trapped and confined by the very rigid norms that I as a Muslim woman had to conform with if I wanted to be accepted and "rightly guided". So I kept all my "transgressions" very secret between myself and eventually between myself and my husband. We did a lot of things that other Salafis and Salafi-ish Muslims would condemn.

    Now, I still feel the chackles of Islam holding me down. My relationship with my husband could have been wonderfull if he had looked for help with his depression, and if I hadn't lost faith in god and Islam in particular. The thing is that I hated Islam so much that I had to get out of there. Life really sucks as a Muslim. I was never happy as a Muslim even though I was told that real happiness is found with god...

     I sometimes feel bitter about how much I have missed of my youth, friendships I missed, bad decisions regarding career and education I made because of "haram" this and that. Everything you mentioned. But I think we have to look at it from the "bright side". At least you could get out of there... and your whole life hasn't passed, you were in your early 30s when you escaped. You have so much time to build up your life. Hopefully, our experiences can work in our favour in the long term.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #14 - January 22, 2014, 04:03 PM

    the last 3 years or so I slowly de-radicalised and started my de-islamization process so once I renounced the faith both in heart and in practice, it felt liberating more than anything.


    My last two years or so was similar. I started to trim my beard down, started listening to a little music and going to the movies. But the biggest step was that during this time I started looking into sites that dispassionately criticized Islam itself. It melted away after that. Within 6 months I realized that I did not believe in Islam and quite frankly did not like the guy described in the hadith (Muhammad) and I declared that I was no longer Muslim.  I couldn't do it anymore. Couldn't even pretend. It was gone. The process of building my life had to begin in earnest. And THAT was/is the challenge.

    Truth is that I probably ceased to be Muslim the moment I developed the courage to start reading anti-Islam polemics and sites by ex-Muslims. I was looking for the exit.
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #15 - January 22, 2014, 10:33 PM

    Anytime. Someone on here gave it to me, I wish I could remember who, so I could give a shout out.
    I have had a really tough time with the internal shifting away from Islamic thought. It has been a very slow process for me.
    That link reminded me that other people have the same problem, all of us who are leaving a religious system, that Islam is not the only thing that grips the mind and won't let go. Besides the fact that it is accurate.
    When I first came to this forum, I was terrified. In my intro thread, I got such great support and advice, I stayed. In the short months since then, I am changed. I swear.
    My therapist, (I do hope you can get to one soon) says the change is so profound, that she wants to do all my testing over, from just a year ago. This is from CEMB and DA, only. There is nothing else different in my life. In fact, I might test normal.
    I am grateful.


    Moi!  Actually, does anyone want to write up something similar to what Winnell is saying from an Islamic perspective?  Her work is being discussed academically, arguments with examples from Islam might be very important, she is on facebook sand am sure would be willing to discuss taking things further.

    I would love to move from individuals putting their heads above the parapet to real massive changes.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #16 - January 22, 2014, 11:08 PM

    Ex salafy.   

    If you don't mind me asking if your life was going really good for you at 21 what made you convert to Islam ?

    Was it the appeal of something exotic ?

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #17 - January 23, 2014, 12:12 AM

    If you don't mind me asking if your life was going really good for you at 21 what made you convert to Islam ?

    Was it the appeal of something exotic ?


    Nah. It was my massive savior's complex at the time. I was looking around the black community (I am black) and I was worried about its collapse.

    A friend of mine at the time who had been in the military called and told me that he had accepted Islam and had even traveled to perform the pilgrimage to Mecca (on the dime of the Saudis). This friend had similar concerns to mine about the condition of the black community. He told me of his travels and shared magical tales of how everyone got along, there were no schisms amongst the Muslims (he didn't know) and most of all that there was no racism amongst the many races of Muslims (he didn't know the reality of that either).

    Long story short, this friend told me that Islam was the solution for all our ills and gave me some pamphlets and video tapes of Ahmed Deedat which were very convincing.
       Deedat was funny and entertaining, but most importantly, he made a very convincing case for there being many serious errors and mistakes in the Bible so therefore the solutions to our problems could not possibly be in Christianity. Besides, look at the failure that Christianity was in our communities, right? Christianity split into many schisms and sects and Islam had not! (Yes, I know! I know that Islam did too, but give us a break. We just didn’t know!) Deedat’s attacks on Christians and Christianity were biting and unrelenting, while his praise of Muslims and Islam was effusive. He painted a wonderful picture: “Muslims have no racism!”, “Muslim nations have no crime problems!”, “Muslims have no drunkards!” So on and so forth.
       Man, he had me convinced, and after a few weeks of reading Islamic books and pamphlets, and watching those videos, I became Muslim.

    Also during this time (the early 90s), being Muslim was more akin to a hip-hop black consciousness movement (think rap group Public Enemy). No, I was NOT seeking the Nation of Islam, but that was the image of Muslims at the time. The Muslim was seen as a sort of a black nationalist warrior and protector of the black community (an image owed to the Nation of Islam). He did not dress in Saudi clothing or grow an unkempt beard. He was viewed as clean, honest and upstanding. I mention all of that to say that I had no reason to think that my personal life would be destroyed 15 years later. To the contrary, I thought it would be enhanced.

    Of course after becoming Muslim the goal posts began to move and I was taught that much of what I thought was Islam was not "real" Islam. In the 1990s the salafi influence over the black Muslim community and the youth (like myself) who had entered Islam because of hip hop was very strong. That was because many of the most popular speakers of the time were young black salafis who graduated or attended the Islamic University of Madinah in Saudi Arabia. Of course I wanted to please Allah and be a "real" Muslim, so I complied with their teachings. There was no nationalism in Islam (except of course for Arab nationalism) and getting involved in the community was frowned upon at that time. Voting was haram. Music was haram. Culture was haram.

    How ironic that many of us became Muslim to "save" the black community but ultimately abandoned it because of Islam.

    I could go on and on, but that makes a long story short. I just didn't think that I would destroy myself like that.
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #18 - January 23, 2014, 12:55 AM

    great, fascinating posts Ex Salafy. Thanks for posting them.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #19 - January 23, 2014, 01:17 AM

    Moi!  Actually, does anyone want to write up something similar to what Winnell is saying from an Islamic perspective?  Her work is being discussed academically, arguments with examples from Islam might be very important, she is on facebook sand am sure would be willing to discuss taking things further.

    I would love to move from individuals putting their heads above the parapet to real massive changes.


    moi! Yes! Thank you, to moi!
    It all seemed to me, to be relevant. I was reading stories about women who left Quiverfull and feeling a real connection, before you gave me this link, before I joined up here, even.
    Are you trying to organize something?

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #20 - January 23, 2014, 02:25 AM



    Cut from the exact same cloth.
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #21 - January 23, 2014, 02:33 AM

    ^

    I think you've found your Doppelgänger   




    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Religious Post Traumatic Stress
     Reply #22 - January 23, 2014, 08:51 AM

    I've discussed this on another forum and already begun writing on it from an islamic view point. I'll post it when I have access to a working laptop.
    It would be interesting if we could all contribute since we all have our personal experiences.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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