4D7920626C6F67

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4D7920626C6F67
OP - November 06, 2011, 07:09 PM

Have been meaning to start a blog here and with the discussion in the arranged marriage thread this seems like a good time to do so.

I am just going to use this first post to respond to some of the comments.

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on November 06, 2011, 02:40 AM
Surely it's not beyond you to put your foot down? This is your life.

Indeed, I could and have in the past. However I have lost all motivation to do so anymore.

Quote from: -Tmp- on November 06, 2011, 02:43 AM
Maybe I misread your posts, but it just seemed to me that you are not happy with marrying this girl but you are still going through it anyway because of your parents.

I'm not assuming you're ruining the girls life. I just noticed that you will get to know her 1-2 years before marrying so that's good.

You have misread my posts. I am not happy with marrying, it does not matter to me who I am marrying, just I find the whole process degrading.

Quote from: toor on November 06, 2011, 07:53 AM
Marrying someone you're indifferent to isn't really a recipe for happiness. You'll be living with someone very closely indeed, where you won't exactly have the option of ignoring them. That sort of commitment isn't worth making to please anyone else.

Have you considered that your mum is actually holding you hostage? It's not up to her how you live your life, and yet you treat your relationship with her as somehow worth the sacrifice (of a divorce settlement - not cheap, generally, and I'm not just speaking financially - if not just an unhappy marriage). Why?

If you think your apostasy is sufficient to drive potential suitors away, fine, but you've still not addressed the underlying problem.

Your post makes the most sense. I have thought about it from multiple angles and I know the girl and her personality, I am certain there will be no problem in that area (though I guess I will have a good amount of time to work that out).

As for your second point, a few years back this was the case. Back then, I got kicked out of my home for disagreeing with what was planned for me. I failed college as a result and was living like a hobo for approximately 6 months and did not speak to my mother for a whole year. That experience is still fresh on my moms mind, she was too afraid to even ask me directly. I see no reason to torture my mom for the sake of western ideologies, and its not like arranged marriages do not work. The only problem was my apostasy and my conscious which made me feel horrible for lying. I have passed that hurdle, and in truth I was expecting my mother to kick me out of the home again, but I guess the previous experience has made her somewhat afraid of that. I wanted a chance to find my own partner, she accepted that and I have not been able to.

The underlying problem is, my mom wants me to marry. Left up to me, I will NEVER marry, girls aren't into me and neither do I try very hard to go after them. Arranged marriage is my mothers solution, a solution I do not like since it hurts my pride and self image. However I have no other solution. If I went to my mom and said "this is the chick I want to marry" she would be fine with that, but I have not done that and she is worried about me. She feels her duty is to get me married even more so than me being a Muslim.

Quote from: Sir Wankalot on November 06, 2011, 10:48 AM
VHD: I'm confused as to how this will all work out... The woman will find out in 1-2 years time that you are an atheist? If she decides to call it off, isn't that a year or two wasted of her life when she could have been looking at other proposals? And she will relay this info about your apostacy to her family. Would it not then cause problems? In other words, news of your apostacy will cause issues - it's just a matter of now or later. Or do you plan on pointing the finger at your mum and say 'she was supposed to tell you this'?

I have told my mum, and explained to her that its important that she knows. I trust my mom in that she will discuss the topic with her (but probably not the parents). My mom knows me, and she knows I will tell her so she will avoid embarrassment by clearing it up before getting serious. I mean, I have made it clear enough that I will let her know prior to marriage so I doubt my mum will keep it a secret. If it does not go this way, well then that's a shit storm I can create without any remorse for my mum.

For now I will leave it at that. For now.

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Re: 4D7920626C6F67
Reply #1 - November 06, 2011, 07:26 PM

Maybe it's because I barely have any relationship at all with my parents, but I'll never understand how people could let their parents live through them. My mother would probably be very upset if I married a white girl (or, shock horror, a black one) but she'll just have to get the fuck over it. If she's expecting me to put up with being unhappy for someone else's sake, well she can live up to her own challenge.
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Re: 4D7920626C6F67
Reply #2 - November 06, 2011, 07:50 PM

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on November 06, 2011, 07:26 PM
If she's expecting me to put up with being unhappy for someone else's sake, well she can live up to her own challenge.

Well said.

An alternative to religion;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
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Re: 4D7920626C6F67
Reply #3 - November 06, 2011, 08:53 PM

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on November 06, 2011, 07:26 PM
Maybe it's because I barely have any relationship at all with my parents, but I'll never understand how people could let their parents live through them. My mother would probably be very upset if I married a white girl (or, shock horror, a black one) but she'll just have to get the fuck over it. If she's expecting me to put up with being unhappy for someone else's sake, well she can live up to her own challenge.

You know that is one of the things I keep thinking. I have a very close relationship with my mom. Sometimes based on the advice people throw around on the forum, I seem to get the feeling that they are not close to their family. That is not to say I disagree with such advice. I also think the concept of happiness does not register to them, this seems like a wholly western concept. Either that or they assume they know better and that you wont truly be unhappy.

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Re: 4D7920626C6F67
Reply #4 - November 06, 2011, 09:29 PM

What would your mother do if you refused to get married?
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Re: 4D7920626C6F67
Reply #5 - November 06, 2011, 09:32 PM

Quote from: VHD on November 06, 2011, 07:09 PM
As for your second point, a few years back this was the case. Back then, I got kicked out of my home for disagreeing with what was planned for me. I failed college as a result and was living like a hobo for approximately 6 months and did not speak to my mother for a whole year. That experience is still fresh on my moms mind, she was too afraid to even ask me directly. I see no reason to torture my mom for the sake of western ideologies, and its not like arranged marriages do not work. The only problem was my apostasy and my conscious which made me feel horrible for lying. I have passed that hurdle, and in truth I was expecting my mother to kick me out of the home again, but I guess the previous experience has made her somewhat afraid of that. I wanted a chance to find my own partner, she accepted that and I have not been able to.

But it's nothing to do with ideology, western or otherwise. It's to do with what you want and how much you will allow yourself to be dominated by someone else. I think that it is not good - much less natural - for an adult to give someone else that much power.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in this scenario, nobody really wins. You don't, your future prospective bride doesn't, and woe betide you if your mum decides to take the part of an active mother-in-law; I'd be willing to bet any happiness you give her by marrying will be relatively short-lived. How do you know she won't then decide to dictate to you how your married life will go? It's not like she wouldn't be following a substantial precedent..

Quote from: VHD on November 06, 2011, 07:09 PM
The underlying problem is, my mom wants me to marry. Left up to me, I will NEVER marry, girls aren't into me and neither do I try very hard to go after them. Arranged marriage is my mothers solution, a solution I do not like since it hurts my pride and self image. However I have no other solution. If I went to my mom and said "this is the chick I want to marry" she would be fine with that, but I have not done that and she is worried about me. She feels her duty is to get me married even more so than me being a Muslim.

But that's just it. It's her solution, not yours. If she railroads you into a marriage, she's fairly unlikely to accept any blame if it all goes pearshaped, no?

576861746576657220796f752063686f6f736520746f20646f2c20676f6f64206c75636b2e

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Re: 4D7920626C6F67
Reply #6 - November 06, 2011, 09:34 PM

Have you thought about telling the girl who your mother chose for you that you are in fact an atheist? In that case she and/or her partents would perhaps refuse you!

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Re: 4D7920626C6F67
Reply #7 - November 06, 2011, 09:55 PM

In my view, respect and love is a two way street. Parents want the best for us but true unconditional love and respect involve taking your children's feelings into consideration and not coercing or blackmailing them into something that they would not willingly do on their own, especially once they reach adulthood. There will always be a generation gap and like any relationship, there will be disagreements. But you can still love and accept a person for who they are even if you don't always agree with their choices or decisions. Failure to understand a person's point of view is seriously disrespectful and self-centered. But that's just me. I just like to be treated as an intelligent equal.

Only you know your situation and family dynamics best. You don't need to be here justifying your reasons if you have already thought all of this through and have decided on a course of action. Unless you are having doubts and second thoughts. Are you?
At the end of the day, only you have to live with the decisions you make. Whatever you choose, I hope it leaves you happy and fulfilled
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Re: 4D7920626C6F67
Reply #8 - November 07, 2011, 02:49 AM

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on November 06, 2011, 09:29 PM
What would your mother do if you refused to get married?

I honestly wouldnt know.

Quote from: toor on November 06, 2011, 09:32 PM
But it's nothing to do with ideology, western or otherwise. It's to do with what you want and how much you will allow yourself to be dominated by someone else. I think that it is not good - much less natural - for an adult to give someone else that much power.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in this scenario, nobody really wins. You don't, your future prospective bride doesn't, and woe betide you if your mum decides to take the part of an active mother-in-law; I'd be willing to bet any happiness you give her by marrying will be relatively short-lived. How do you know she won't then decide to dictate to you how your married life will go? It's not like she wouldn't be following a substantial precedent..
But that's just it. It's her solution, not yours. If she railroads you into a marriage, she's fairly unlikely to accept any blame if it all goes pearshaped, no?

576861746576657220796f752063686f6f736520746f20646f2c20676f6f64206c75636b2e

Dominated? Maybe, I thought about this and while I dont like it, maybe you are right. I guess I have become weak, maybe from an innate fear of being alone or a desire for someone to look after my mum or maybe its both of these things.

I dont plan to play the blame game, I have always accepted my fate whether it be good or bad. I also understand what will be expected of me. I see it more like a transaction more than anything.

5468616E6B732C20796F752068656C706564206D6520636F6E7369646572206173706563747320746861742049206775657 37320492061766F696465642E

Quote from: Hallakuf on November 06, 2011, 09:34 PM
Have you thought about telling the girl who your mother chose for you that you are in fact an atheist? In that case she and/or her partents would perhaps refuse you!

Read my response to Sir Wankalot in OP.

Quote from: Sir Wankalot on November 06, 2011, 09:55 PM
In my view, respect and love is a two way street. Parents want the best for us but true unconditional love and respect involve taking your children's feelings into consideration and not coercing or blackmailing them into something that they would not willingly do on their own, especially once they reach adulthood. There will always be a generation gap and like any relationship, there will be disagreements. But you can still love and accept a person for who they are even if you don't always agree with their choices or decisions. Failure to understand a person's point of view is seriously disrespectful and self-centered. But that's just me. I just like to be treated as an intelligent equal.

Only you know your situation and family dynamics best. You don't need to be here justifying your reasons if you have already thought all of this through and have decided on a course of action. Unless you are having doubts and second thoughts. Are you?
At the end of the day, only you have to live with the decisions you make. Whatever you choose, I hope it leaves you happy and fulfilled

Of course, who doesnt? In an ideal world I would love for it to be like you say. The best I can do now is make it easier for my nephews and neices so they dont have to face the same issues I do. Thats what I can change, I have given up on changing what I cannot, my mum cannot change.

I am always having doubts for every decision I make. I did not expect to have to defend my position when I originally posted it (and probably would have kept it a secret had I known it would). I reply because it would be rude not to, but also it helps me make sure that my decision is not ill thought out.

Happy? Fullfilled? I gave up on that waaay back. Now I just care for making life easier for those around me.

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Re: 4D7920626C6F67
Reply #9 - November 07, 2011, 07:55 AM

Quote from: VHD on November 07, 2011, 02:49 AM
Of course, who doesnt? In an ideal world I would love for it to be like you say. The best I can do now is make it easier for my nephews and neices so they dont have to face the same issues I do. Thats what I can change, I have given up on changing what I cannot, my mum cannot change.

I am always having doubts for every decision I make. I did not expect to have to defend my position when I originally posted it (and probably would have kept it a secret had I known it would). I reply because it would be rude not to, but also it helps me make sure that my decision is not ill thought out.

Happy? Fullfilled? I gave up on that waaay back. Now I just care for making life easier for those around me.

You say you have no idea of what your mother would do if you refused to marry. But you must have some idea of what she is like and how she may react. I'm guessing you would have already discussed the topic and heard what she had to say about it?

Initially she might worry and get upset, but in time she might learn to accept it?

I know my mum is very disappointed in my decisions, but she is learning to accept it and move on. Like you said, I've come to the realisation that my mum cannot change, so I can't expect her to be this open minded, loving person who will praise and support my decisions. But I think she is realising that the world hasn't ended just because I've done things differently.

And I think that happens to a lot of people's parents. Eventually they realise that the world hasn't ended just because their son or daughter bucked the trend. They are still the same children and the relationship continues.

I'm sorry to hear you sound so beaten down though, but if you think that is the solution to your situation then so be it.
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