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 Topic: The Objectification Of Men In Media

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  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #150 - April 01, 2013, 06:26 AM
    Quote from: Al-Alethia on April 01, 2013, 06:07 AM
    A few different blogs/sites/forums but most of it is from Chateau Heartiste, which is more about pick-up artistry

    And I thought I was odd for obsessively reading a cycling doping forum.
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #151 - April 01, 2013, 02:05 PM
    Quote
    There's menarebetterthanwomen.com (it's a riot Cheesy) and a forum with the same name.


    I remember this video from a long time ago.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJRwIf1FF0
    Skip to 2:29 onwards, though his views are outrageous, I have to admit his comeback at the end was hilarious whistling2.
    He is a mighty good troll.
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #152 - April 04, 2013, 03:02 AM
    Quote from: Abood on March 30, 2013, 03:08 PM
    A List of “Men’s Rights” Issues That Feminism Is Already Working On
    notes.husk.org


    From Lindy West’s post for Jezebel, “If I Admit That ‘Hating Men’ Is a Thing, Will You Stop Turning It Into a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?”, a list:

    • Feminists do not want you to lose custody of your children. The assumption that women are naturally better caregivers is part of patriarchy.
    • Feminists do not like commercials in which bumbling dads mess up the laundry and competent wives have to bustle in and fix it. The assumption that women are naturally better housekeepers is part of patriarchy.
    • Feminists do not want you to have to make alimony payments. Alimony is set up to combat the fact that women have been historically expected to prioritize domestic duties over professional goals, thus minimizing their earning potential if their “traditional” marriages end. The assumption that wives should make babies instead of money is part of patriarchy.
    • Feminists do not want anyone to get raped in prison. Permissiveness and jokes about prison rape are part of rape culture, which is part of patriarchy.
    • Feminists do not want anyone to be falsely accused of rape. False rape accusations discredit rape victims, which reinforces rape culture, which is part of patriarchy.
    • Feminists do not want you to be lonely and we do not hate “nice guys.” The idea that certain people are inherently more valuable than other people because of superficial physical attributes is part of patriarchy.
    • Feminists do not want you to have to pay for dinner. We want the opportunity to achieve financial success on par with men in any field we choose (and are qualified for), and the fact that we currently don’t is part of patriarchy. The idea that men should coddle and provide for women, and/or purchase their affections in romantic contexts, is condescending and damaging and part of patriarchy.
    • Feminists do not want you to be maimed or killed in industrial accidents, or toil in coal mines while we do cushy secretarial work and various yarn-themed activities. The fact that women have long been shut out of dangerous industrial jobs (by men, by the way) is part of patriarchy.
    • Feminists do not want you to commit suicide. Any pressures and expectations that lower the quality of life of either gender are part of patriarchy. The fact that depression is characterized as an effeminate weakness, making men less likely to seek treatment, is part of patriarchy.
    • Feminists do not want you to be viewed with suspicion when you take your child to the park (men frequently insist that this is a serious issue, so I will take them at their word). The assumption that men are insatiable sexual animals, combined with the idea that it’s unnatural for men to care for children, is part of patriarchy.
    • Feminists do not want you to be drafted and then die in a war while we stay home and iron stuff. The idea that women are too weak to fight or too delicate to function in a military setting is part of patriarchy.
    • Feminists do not want women to escape prosecution on legitimate domestic violence charges, nor do we want men to be ridiculed for being raped or abused. The idea that women are naturally gentle and compliant and that victimhood is inherently feminine is part of patriarchy.
    • Feminists hate patriarchy. We do not hate you.
         



    What's this one about? I have an idea, but I want to be sure.

    Also, can anyone elaborate on what you think of this idea that as women, if we want to get pregnant, usually we need to find a man willing to be with us and stay with us (ie. a serious relationship of any sort) who we have to get the "okay" from before we start trying to get pregnant. I feel like this makes it difficult for some women. Personally, it gives me little hope that I'll ever find a man who will want to have a baby with me if I so desire it (I'm still undecided about having kids). Because it puts it all on them. If they don't OK it, I can't get pregnant. They are, in a way, in control of my reproductivity.

    I'm not sure hetero men face this problem as much because generally speaking, they're not usually the ones with the strong desire to reproduce. And if they do, even if they're single and still looking - once they find a woman, it's likely that it's easier to convince her to have kids with him (vs. a woman trying to convince a man).

    So where does that leave women?
    Again, not only with romantic pursuits, we're taught to just sit there and wait? Maybe it will come along, maybe it won't - too bad? It seems like the man has the last say on everything.
    I know in relationships it takes two people to decide major things like this - BOTH sides must agree - but I can't help but feel this is more true than not in many instances.
    Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in.
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #153 - April 04, 2013, 03:26 AM
    The first thought when a man plays with a kid is generally that he's a pedophile. I actually fear being friendly with random kids for that reason.

    The article claims that this assumption against men is a result of patriarchy, because patriarchy propagates the idea that men are nothing but sexual beings who want to hump everything around them to satisfy their biological needs.
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #154 - April 04, 2013, 04:53 AM
    Quote from: Peppermint Tits on April 04, 2013, 03:02 AM
    What's this one about? I have an idea, but I want to be sure.

    Also, can anyone elaborate on what you think of this idea that as women, if we want to get pregnant, usually we need to find a man willing to be with us and stay with us (ie. a serious relationship of any sort) who we have to get the "okay" from before we start trying to get pregnant. I feel like this makes it difficult for some women. Personally, it gives me little hope that I'll ever find a man who will want to have a baby with me if I so desire it (I'm still undecided about having kids). Because it puts it all on them. If they don't OK it, I can't get pregnant. They are, in a way, in control of my reproductivity.


    I'm gonna go ahead an call bullshit on this one. Men aren't in control of women's reproduction by any means. If they choose to wear a condom, they're in control of their sperm, and hence their own reproductive capacity. However, if a woman conceives with a given man then she is under no obligation to not carry that pregnancy. Hell, in the US she's much more likely to have the opposite problem of having to jump through hoops (based on government restrictions) to terminate the pregnancy. So I don't really see women's reproductive potential being limited here in any way.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #155 - April 04, 2013, 09:00 AM
    Quote from: Abood on April 04, 2013, 03:26 AM
    The first thought when a man plays with a kid is generally that he's a pedophile. I actually fear being friendly with random kids for that reason.

    The article claims that this assumption against men is a result of patriarchy, because patriarchy propagates the idea that men are nothing but sexual beings who want to hump everything around them to satisfy their biological needs.

    I think it has less to do with patriarchy and more to do with the fact that most sex offenders -- including those who target children -- are men. I guess you could argue that the old-school notion (patriarchy?) that playing with/cooing over babies/children is a woman's thing can also contribute to the paranoia and suspicion some people get over a man playing with children who aren't his own. 
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #156 - April 04, 2013, 09:06 AM
    @ Peppermint Tits
    I think I agree with asbie on this one; both men and women are as in control of their reproductive capacity as biology allows. Both sexes need each other for reproduction, so a man can't have children if he can't find a woman willing to carry a pregnancy to term, just as a woman's options are limited if she can't find a willing man. 

    You could always poke holes in the condom or not take the pill without telling him or whatever. I must be a bitch for even thinking that Cheesy Yes, that is HIGHLY unethical and not something I'd ever do or encourage but it demonstrates that women actually have the upper hand by a LONG shot when it comes to control over reproduction. 

    If you want a baby, you can -- not that you should -- trick a guy into getting you pregnant; if you don't want a baby, you've got an array of BC options; if you still get pregnant unintentionally, you can get an abortion, or adopt the child out, or dump him/her on a church doorstep. Men essentially have NO reproductive rights, other than condoms and abstinence, they've got no way of opting out of an unwanted pregnancy and subsequent fatherhood. 

    I guess you can't make a man want to have children, but it can't be that hard to find a guy who wants children, especially when you consider that most people do end up having children at some point. If all else fails, there's always sperm banks Tongue
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #157 - April 05, 2013, 09:28 PM
    Quote from: Abood on April 04, 2013, 03:26 AM
    The first thought when a man plays with a kid is generally that he's a pedophile. I actually fear being friendly with random kids for that reason.

    Depends on the circumstances. If you rock up to a kids' playground and start being nice to random kids, people will probably look at you sideways. If kids you already know want to play with you, just because kids usually do, most sane people would see nothing wrong with you playing with them. The little buggers can be fun. grin12

    Quote
    The article claims that this assumption against men is a result of patriarchy, because patriarchy propagates the idea that men are nothing but sexual beings who want to hump everything around them to satisfy their biological needs.

    I call bullshit. Some people take this All Powerful PatriarchyTM shit way too seriously.

    Pulling the old fart card on ya Old geezer I can say that it's not "patriarchy" that is responsible for the fear of male paedophiles these days. It's due to the (very necessary) greater awareness of sexual abuse. Decades ago, western society was even more biased towards males than it is today (varies according to country/region, but still exists to a degree) but there was no problem with everyone freaking about male paedophiles, simply because sexual abuse was never spoken about and was something hidden.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #158 - April 05, 2013, 10:05 PM
    Quote
    Depends on the circumstances. If you rock up to a kids' playground and start being nice to random kids, people will probably look at you sideways. If kids you already know want to play with you, just because kids usually do, most sane people would see nothing wrong with you playing with them. The little buggers can be fun.


    Common sense is not so common, eh
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #159 - April 29, 2013, 04:58 PM
    Gender portrayal in the media, with a reversal experiment.
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #160 - April 29, 2013, 09:09 PM
    Ok, so I got to three minutes before it became tedious. The point is obvious, and valid, and not something that has escaped my attention for the past thirty years or so. However, I think the vid is a bit off target in a couple of respects.

    Take the claim that depression in men has doubled in the past couple of decades. I don't think this is the case. I think that what has doubled is acknowledgement of depression in men, because it used to be seen as something to be covered up rather than acknowledged. In that way, it's similar to several other social ills which have probably always existed in much the same proportion as they do today, but which weren't acknowledged in the past. So, I doubt that current depression statistics for men can be blamed on modern advertising.

    The other claim about the increase in breast augmentations is difficult to pin down to advertising, because the majority of female models do not have larger than average breasts. In fact, usually the opposite, if anything. Advertising often uses runway models, or models with a similar build to runway models. So, while I agree that augmentations have increased dramatically, and while I think this is ridiculous and not a good thing, I'm not sure it can be pinned on mainstream advertising. It seems more likely (IMO) to be associated with other factors.

    The vid does make some very good points, but also gets a bit carried away and misses the mark sometimes. The male models used in the "reversal experiment" are going to render it ineffective for stimulating thought among those who need to do some thinking. Why? Because they are such phsycially unattractive male models that the experiment runs the risk of being seen as a send up that shouldn't be taken seriously.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #161 - April 29, 2013, 09:28 PM
    I'll give you an analogy about the "send up - not to be taken seriously". I don't know about Canada, but over here there's a sort of weird tradition of rugby types dressing up as women for special occasions. Beats me why, but they do. It happens on footy shows and the like, and sometimes for novelty games.

    Now of course, these are real blokey blokes. Rule Number 1: no poofters. As far as I can tell, the whole thing is based around the idea of "Fuck, it's a bloke dressed as a sheila! That's fukn funny, mate." It's certainly not done to stimulate thought, or as an exercise of walking a mile in someone else's shoes. It's pure bogan pisstake. Presumably, it's this sort of bloke that the video would be trying to talk to, but the reversal experiment has zero chance of working on them.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #162 - April 29, 2013, 10:15 PM
    I think the video is for anyone, not just blokey blokes. It's pointing out how the media portrays gender, sometimes subtly, sometimes not so much. Their analysis may be off, and the reversals at the end are obviously not professionally done, but it's an interesting concept to consider.
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #163 - April 29, 2013, 10:44 PM
    Ok, more food for thought: what's the end game?

    I don't think it's realistic to expect that all sexual innuendo will be removed from advertising. I don't even think it's necessarily desirable. Sex is part of life and I'm not inclined to get too uptight about references to it, provided that they're the sort of references that aren't likely to cause any real harm.

    It stands to reason that when using models, of either sex, in an attempt to sell products advertisers will select models that are physically attractive.  Using physically attractive models gives a presentation that most people will find instinctively more appealing than using ugly models. Advertisers aren't going to select models who are as ugly as a sack full of arseholes because, after all, they are trying to make their product seem appealing.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #164 - May 02, 2013, 05:12 PM
    +1

    using sex in advertising is not bad in itself.

    It only becomes bad when the advertisements belittle or encourage sexual violence or if they degrade a person because of their gender.

    Like the ads in the vid that showed a women being raped and another where i showed a woman under to foot of a man. 

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #165 - May 02, 2013, 07:57 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 05, 2013, 09:28 PM
    Depends on the circumstances. If you rock up to a kids' playground and start being nice to random kids, people will probably look at you sideways. If kids you already know want to play with you, just because kids usually do, most sane people would see nothing wrong with you playing with them. The little buggers can be fun. grin12
    I call bullshit. Some people take this All Powerful PatriarchyTM shit way too seriously.

    Pulling the old fart card on ya Old geezer I can say that it's not "patriarchy" that is responsible for the fear of male paedophiles these days. It's due to the (very necessary) greater awareness of sexual abuse. Decades ago, western society was even more biased towards males than it is today (varies according to country/region, but still exists to a degree) but there was no problem with everyone freaking about male paedophiles, simply because sexual abuse was never spoken about and was something hidden.


    "Stranger Danger" isn't, and never has been, the real problem with child abuse. Tabloid newspaper inspired hysteria has meant that our children are locked up at home and prevented from having an out of doors fun childhood because of mythical dangers from men in white macs. Sadly, this means they are exposed to the far more real dangers extant behind their front doors.
    Anyway, I was victim of this suspicion of men thing the other day whilst exercising the dog and keeping an eye on six year old grandson playing on the play apparatus.
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #166 - May 02, 2013, 09:09 PM
    How does this make you a victim?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #167 - May 02, 2013, 09:33 PM
    Yep good point. Bad word. Edited.
  • The Objectification Of Men In Media
     Reply #168 - May 02, 2013, 09:34 PM
    Quote from: Rob on May 02, 2013, 07:57 PM
    "Stranger Danger" isn't, and never has been, the real problem with child abuse. Tabloid newspaper inspired hysteria has meant that our children are locked up at home and prevented from having an out of doors fun childhood because of mythical dangers from men in white macs. Sadly, this means they are exposed to the far more real dangers extant behind their front doors.
    Anyway, I was subjected to this suspicion of men thing the other day whilst exercising the dog and keeping an eye on six year old grandson playing on the play apparatus.

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