Fear & Islam

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- Jack Torrance
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Re: Fear & Islam
Reply #90 - May 17, 2009, 09:24 AM

Quote from: heartbomb on May 17, 2009, 09:17 AM
Quote from: Jack Torrance on May 17, 2009, 09:04 AM
Quote from: heartbomb on May 17, 2009, 08:40 AM
Words and structure that gave meaning to my life - or at least I thought it did and I was in denial for a long, long time.

Interesting, that seems to be the regular answer for most followers of religions. It's like putting the cart before the horse really. Like saying 'Yeah, I love that song.' before you've even heard it. Almost as if the spiritual side is secondary/a 'bonus', which quite ridiculous in my view.

I didn't feel any spiritual connection. Honestly, I tried my best, but there was no spiritual connection whatsoever.

That is part of the reason why I rejected it (besides the absurdities).

I'm not really surprised. The Koran doesn't read very well as a source of spiritual inspiration! I guess I'm surprised at me really, for thinking that converts must have had an 'awakening' when in most cases, it is nothing of the sort. Joining religion, on the whole, seems to be an attempt to leave an old life behind and start again - possibly in the hope that spiritual revelations will follow, but again, that side of it doesn't see so important to followers.

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Re: Fear & Islam
Reply #91 - May 17, 2009, 09:32 AM

Quote from: Jack Torrance on May 17, 2009, 09:24 AM
Quote from: heartbomb on May 17, 2009, 09:17 AM
Quote from: Jack Torrance on May 17, 2009, 09:04 AM
Quote from: heartbomb on May 17, 2009, 08:40 AM
Words and structure that gave meaning to my life - or at least I thought it did and I was in denial for a long, long time.

Interesting, that seems to be the regular answer for most followers of religions. It's like putting the cart before the horse really. Like saying 'Yeah, I love that song.' before you've even heard it. Almost as if the spiritual side is secondary/a 'bonus', which quite ridiculous in my view.

I didn't feel any spiritual connection. Honestly, I tried my best, but there was no spiritual connection whatsoever.

That is part of the reason why I rejected it (besides the absurdities).

I'm not really surprised. The Koran doesn't read very well as a source of spiritual inspiration! I guess I'm surprised at me really, for thinking that converts must have had an 'awakening' when in most cases, it is nothing of the sort. Joining religion, on the whole, seems to be an attempt to leave an old life behind and start again - possibly in the hope that spiritual revelations will follow, but again, that side of it doesn't see so important to followers.

That's the problem...they hope and they hope for that spiritual connection, and sometimes become so delusional by it that they believe they have achieved that spiritual high.

My mother is very much like that, even though she cannot justify some aspects of Islam to me. When I questioned her, she said that I should write to our local mosque and ask them, they will be able to explain it 'best'. My problem lies in the fact that she follows it but she cannot explain it to me, nor can she justify it.

This reminds me of a youtube clip I watched last night...this woman frightens me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7EDD-3T7wU

She doesn't have extremist view points against non-Muslims, but she is acting as a 'recruiter' so to speak. Also she mentions in one of her videos that she is spreading the message of Islam, so non-Muslims watching these videos have no excuse to turn away from Islam - and that there's a possibility these videos will be replayed to you on judgment day...
- kope
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Re: Fear & Islam
Reply #92 - May 17, 2009, 10:06 AM

Quote from: Hassan on May 17, 2009, 08:04 AM
Quote from: kope on May 16, 2009, 10:51 PM
God hates atheist because ideology of atheist says there are no eternal consequences so, "if it feels good, do it!".

I don't know of any atheist that believes that there are no consequences for actions.

i talked to atheists about sex before marriage almost all atheists said it is ok to have sex before marriage as many people as you like

please read my blog, read how islam will win
the clash of civilization.

http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Fear & Islam
Reply #93 - May 17, 2009, 10:11 AM

Wow! I'm convinced and will be returning to Islam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eaiuuar4Omk
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Fear & Islam
Reply #94 - May 17, 2009, 10:19 AM

Quote from: kope on May 17, 2009, 10:06 AM
Quote from: Hassan on May 17, 2009, 08:04 AM
Quote from: kope on May 16, 2009, 10:51 PM
God hates atheist because ideology of atheist says there are no eternal consequences so, "if it feels good, do it!".

I don't know of any atheist that believes that there are no consequences for actions.

i talked to atheists about sex before marriage almost all atheists said it is ok to have sex before marriage as many people as you like

That doesn't mean they believe there are no consequences for actions.

They only believe there are no consequences in an after-life.

And I repeat:

Unless you can show me some undeniable evidence that God exists and that Islam is true - then you are saying God hates atheists for not believing in something that God himself has left in doubt.

In other words God hates atheists for something that is not their fault (but is actually his fault for not making his existence known to everyone beyond any doubt)

Get it?
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Re: Fear & Islam
Reply #95 - May 17, 2009, 10:20 AM

Quote from: Jack Torrance on May 17, 2009, 08:36 AM
Quote from: Hassan on May 17, 2009, 08:04 AM

Unless you can show me some undeniable evidence that God exists and that Islam is true - then your words are meaningless.

I'll answer for them - 'Unless you can provide evidence that God deosnt exist and that Islam isnt true...' round and round it goes.

This is for you Hass, and any other ex muslim - during your time as a Muslim, was there nothing you experienced beyond the dogma, like a flash of 'spiritual intuition' (or whatever you wanna call it) that transcended the books and the imams and the miswak, that stayed with you after you'd left Islam behind? Or was it all just words and the structure that gave meaning to your life?

Yes I had - and still have - a spiritual feeling/intuition that transcends words. (As you know I'm not an atheist.)

I'm trying to get kope to see the faulty logic in his belief in a God that hates atheists and tortures them for something that is not essentially their fault.

And yes I know it's a waste of time.
- Saif Rahman
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Re: Fear & Islam
Reply #96 - May 17, 2009, 10:54 AM

Quote from: Jack Torrance on May 17, 2009, 08:36 AM
during your time as a Muslim, was there nothing you experienced beyond the dogma, like a flash of 'spiritual intuition' (or whatever you wanna call it) that transcended the books and the imams and the miswak, that stayed with you after you'd left Islam behind? Or was it all just words and the structure that gave meaning to your life?

'A flash of spiritual intuition' - Sounds like bollocks to me, you been smoking something? Its the kind of thing people say when they see the "light".

Why do you think the 'spock' types never see or hear these things, is it because they have a closed mind or because they dont allow irrationality to explain internal conflicts or weird phenomena?

Answers "No" if you have not guessed already. Have you

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- kope
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Re: Fear & Islam
Reply #97 - May 17, 2009, 11:06 AM

Quote from: Hassan on May 17, 2009, 10:19 AM
Quote from: kope on May 17, 2009, 10:06 AM
Quote from: Hassan on May 17, 2009, 08:04 AM
Quote from: kope on May 16, 2009, 10:51 PM
God hates atheist because ideology of atheist says there are no eternal consequences so, "if it feels good, do it!".

I don't know of any atheist that believes that there are no consequences for actions.

i talked to atheists about sex before marriage almost all atheists said it is ok to have sex before marriage as many people as you like

That doesn't mean they believe there are no consequences for actions.

They only believe there are no consequences in an after-life.

And I repeat:

Unless you can show me some undeniable evidence that God exists and that Islam is true - then you are saying God hates atheists for not believing in something that God himself has left in doubt.

i will start a new thread for that topic

please read my blog, read how islam will win
the clash of civilization.

http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Fear & Islam
Reply #98 - May 17, 2009, 12:03 PM

Quote from: IsLame on May 17, 2009, 10:54 AM
Quote from: Jack Torrance on May 17, 2009, 08:36 AM
during your time as a Muslim, was there nothing you experienced beyond the dogma, like a flash of 'spiritual intuition' (or whatever you wanna call it) that transcended the books and the imams and the miswak, that stayed with you after you'd left Islam behind? Or was it all just words and the structure that gave meaning to your life?

'A flash of spiritual intuition' - Sounds like bollocks to me, you been smoking something? Its the kind of thing people say when they see the "light".

Why do you think the 'spock' types never see or hear these things, is it because they have a closed mind or because they dont allow irrationality to explain internal conflicts or weird phenomena?

Answers "No" if you have not guessed already. Have you

I dunno what you mean with the Spock thing.

Ok smart ass, tell me how you would describe 'a flash of spiritual intuition'? I just chose those words because I thought you'd get my point. Anyway, whatever you call it, just coz iy has never happened to you, does not mean it hasn't happened to others - whatever you wanna call it. Anyway, you're going off the point.

Ha Ha.
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Fear & Islam
Reply #99 - May 17, 2009, 12:04 PM

Quote from: Hassan on May 17, 2009, 10:20 AM
And yes I know it's a waste of time.

Ha Ha.
- Saif Rahman
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- Je suis Haram
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Re: Fear & Islam
Reply #100 - May 17, 2009, 12:23 PM

Quote from: Jack Torrance on May 17, 2009, 12:03 PM
Quote from: IsLame on May 17, 2009, 10:54 AM
Quote from: Jack Torrance on May 17, 2009, 08:36 AM
during your time as a Muslim, was there nothing you experienced beyond the dogma, like a flash of 'spiritual intuition' (or whatever you wanna call it) that transcended the books and the imams and the miswak, that stayed with you after you'd left Islam behind? Or was it all just words and the structure that gave meaning to your life?

'A flash of spiritual intuition' - Sounds like bollocks to me, you been smoking something? Its the kind of thing people say when they see the "light".

Why do you think the 'spock' types never see or hear these things, is it because they have a closed mind or because they dont allow irrationality to explain internal conflicts or weird phenomena?

Answers "No" if you have not guessed already. Have you

I dunno what you mean with the Spock thing.

Ok smart ass, tell me how you would describe 'a flash of spiritual intuition'? I just chose those words because I thought you'd get my point. Anyway, whatever you call it, just coz iy has never happened to you, does not mean it hasn't happened to others - whatever you wanna call it. Anyway, you're going off the point.

People who see the world like Spock - 100% mathematically/rationally or those on the atheist scale of 10. I would not attempt to describe a 'flash of spiritual intuition' because I dont know what it means, as it has never happened to me and my guess it never will. Best to leave you to describe it, as it appears to have happened to you.

Reminds me of how some describe outer body experiences in a religious light, when they are close to death. Muslims describe meeting Allah, xtians describe meeting Jesus, rationalists like Sojournlemous saw nothing of the sought, just a flash of light as per his post.

So how do you describe people who have seen ghosts, UFOs etc?

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- Baal
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Re: Fear & Islam
Reply #101 - May 18, 2009, 12:31 AM

Quote from: PeruvianSkies on May 15, 2009, 10:48 PM
God is an ass, it's hard to imagine that people actually believe that such a cruel being deserves any kind of respect!

I started reading the Quran today, it sounds so damn paranoid at the beginning when it talks about people who pretend to believe but are actually trying to decieve you :\ No wonder muslims have a tendency to believe in conspiracies!

It will make it a bit easier to read the koran if you understand that muhammad and the writers, believed that, a person picks whatever they want to believe in and then should just stick to it. Like picking a favored color or picking your soccer team.

Formal proof and logic were not developed concepts yet and as such were not given much consideration.

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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