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Theme Changer

 Topic: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?

 (Read 8853 times)
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  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #30 - November 09, 2010, 10:32 PM

    No it was probably down to cost & future earning capacity, but this idea of shame peddled by Muslims on pre-Muhammed Arabia is not one I buy either. If female infanticide did occur, then I wonder if it were for the same reasons. 

    Sounds like a justification by Muslims to prove that they enhanced womens rights, when in fact they didnt.   Lets not forget the in pre-Islamic Arabia Khadija  was born, she was in charge of her own business empire & asked Mo for his hand in marriage.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #31 - November 09, 2010, 10:37 PM

    yeah it seems that they sacrifice the babies to some goddess so they can get rich ....
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #32 - November 09, 2010, 11:49 PM

    Hindus had  "Satti" tradition that was broken during British rule of India. When a husband die, they used to cremate the wife too alive.. (Not vice versa)

    Initially Britishers tried to ban it, but Hindus objected that it is part of their culture. Britishers then replied, if it is your culture then we have a culture too. Any adult man involved in taking life of a woman, we would execute him. You practice your culture, and after that we would practice our culture to every man involved in it. (I don't have exact words)

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #33 - November 10, 2010, 05:31 AM

    Muddy,

    its unfair to club all Hindus together regarding sati. The British did try to ban sati but it was the Hindu reformers like Raja Ram Mohan Roy who actually succeed in getting it abolished. (The Hindu reformers were influenced by the British.) Also sati was practiced in north India and Bengal and not in South India.

    In Hindu mythology as far as I remember there is only one character who burnt herself on her husband's pyre. Pandu had 2 wives, when he died, his second wife Madri burnt herself while his first wife Kunti dint.

    Regarding the position of women, many of the seers (Rishi) of the vedas were women. I guess the position of women in Ancient India was similar to pre-islamic Arabia, baby daughters were buried but powerful women like Khajida also existed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_%28practice%29#Modern_times

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishi

    It is better to remain quiet and have people think that you are an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #34 - November 10, 2010, 06:57 AM

    This my wiiife, Kunti.

    Grin

    Sorry.
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #35 - November 10, 2010, 07:53 AM

    Because the structure of monotheistic faith systems are great tools of mass-subjugation and pacification? Used to great effect by the empires that conquered large parts of the world and left their ideas and myths deeply-rooted to this day. Monotheism is evolution of religion. Its had millennia to hone its methods of control, evolving symbiotically alongside people and culture. It is a very successful pyramid scheme that has kept the anointed clerical hierarchy at the right hand of political leaders all the way up to this day and the foreseeable future.

    I don’t think its so much that the main prophets came from that part of the world, but more that those prophets belong to the system of control that was most effective and popularised during the time that great empires were established, and they are the foundation on which massive parts of the modern world is built upon.

    Also, the history of the prophets as we know them now is saturated with myth and legend, mixed up with other heroes of the time, and copied or stolen from figures of long before. How many pagan prophets or mystics do you think were absorbed or buried in the expansion of Abrahamic monotheism? I’d say a hell of a lot.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #36 - November 10, 2010, 01:38 PM

    This my wiiife, Kunti.

    Grin

    Sorry.



    This calls for.... a new chat login  piggy

  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #37 - November 10, 2010, 01:50 PM

    Muddy,

    its unfair to club all Hindus together regarding sati. The British did try to ban sati but it was the Hindu reformers like Raja Ram Mohan Roy who actually succeed in getting it abolished. (The Hindu reformers were influenced by the British.) Also sati was practiced in north India and Bengal and not in South India.

    In Hindu mythology as far as I remember there is only one character who burnt herself on her husband's pyre. Pandu had 2 wives, when he died, his second wife Madri burnt herself while his first wife Kunti dint.

    Regarding the position of women, many of the seers (Rishi) of the vedas were women. I guess the position of women in Ancient India was similar to pre-islamic Arabia, baby daughters were buried but powerful women like Khajida also existed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_%28practice%29#Modern_times

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishi

    And why do you think anybody here cares about all these details? It was a practice, and it is banned. End of story..

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #38 - November 10, 2010, 01:51 PM

    This is a common point mentioned by non-theists in religious debates.  But from a secular & logical perspective, why were 2 of the worlds largest religions, along with Judaism, born in this region only?  

    Or should we simply put it down to chance?  


    Its probably to do with it being a locus of various factors, civilisational, developmental, cultural, political, intellectual (or not), structural, that saw it arise this way, all interlinked and inter-twined, feeding off each other. Mo had those traditions close to hand when he went off on his mission.

    The same way we can ask, why did ancient Greece produce so many philosophers, why did ancient India produce so many sages and philosophers like Buddha and so on? Why was early twentieth century Paris the locus for so many great artists who created the modernist movement?

    Throughout history we can see how different societies do become centres for these kinds of things, there is a swell of activity and cultural significance in a sustained period of time and age. The reasons are multiple.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #39 - November 10, 2010, 01:55 PM

    The question should be why ancient kafir civilizations like China and India never had a prophet?


    They had gurus and sages and philosophers and men who became individualised spiritual figures. The tone of the Asian spiritual / philosophical tradition is different though.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #40 - November 10, 2010, 01:58 PM

    Hindus had  "Satti" tradition that was broken during British rule of India. When a husband die, they used to cremate the wife too alive.. (Not vice versa)

    Initially Britishers tried to ban it, but Hindus objected that it is part of their culture. Britishers then replied, if it is your culture then we have a culture too. Any adult man involved in taking life of a woman, we would execute him. You practice your culture, and after that we would practice our culture to every man involved in it. (I don't have exact words)


    I like that anecdote, it has a mordant ring to it, but its also cheeky, because the British soldiers were there to steal the resources of the Indians. Colonialism was barbarism in the guise of civilisation.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #41 - November 10, 2010, 03:16 PM

    They had gurus and sages and philosophers and men who became individualised spiritual figures. The tone of the Asian spiritual / philosophical tradition is different though.



    Why no prophet from Allah?

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #42 - November 10, 2010, 03:18 PM

    I like that anecdote, it has a mordant ring to it, but its also cheeky, because the British soldiers were there to steal the resources of the Indians. Colonialism was barbarism in the guise of civilisation.

    Still better.. If there wasn't an invasion, we would still be living in 6th century there..

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #43 - November 10, 2010, 03:20 PM

    Why no prophet from Allah?

    Because Allah doesnt exist dummy.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #44 - November 10, 2010, 04:19 PM

    And why do you think anybody here cares about all these details? It was a practice, and it is banned. End of story..


    yes and my point is that it was not only due to the British but also due to the Hindu reformers that sati was banned. Your post indicated that all Hindus burnt widows which is just not true.

    It is better to remain quiet and have people think that you are an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #45 - November 10, 2010, 04:28 PM

    I did not say that.. Muslim women are supposed to wear burqa. Does all wear it? No.. But it would always remain a selling point to trash islam.

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #46 - November 10, 2010, 04:47 PM

    This is a common point mentioned by non-theists in religious debates.  But from a secular & logical perspective, why were 2 of the worlds largest religions, along with Judaism, born in this region only? 

    Or should we simply put it down to chance?   


    Yeah, historical accident.

    Islam became a major religion because early Muslims from Arabia were able to take advantage of a power vacuum in the Middle East and North Africa, and conquered those lands. Then later they moved East.

    Christianity became a major religion because it spread in the declining Roman Empire, Constantine happened to convert and made Europe Christian, then later the major European Colonial powers spread Christianity to the New World and Africa by force/conquest much as the Muslims had done before them.

    fuck you
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #47 - November 10, 2010, 07:38 PM

    Still better.. If there wasn't an invasion, we would still be living in 6th century there..


    Thats certainly how colonialists and imperialists of all stripes, nationalities and religions view things.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #48 - November 10, 2010, 07:40 PM

    Why no prophet from Allah?


    Because the men who invented Allah only knew about the world as far as their donkey or camel could ride.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #49 - November 11, 2010, 02:50 AM

    Because the men who invented Allah only knew about the world as far as their donkey or camel could ride.




    Muhammad probably thought that the size of the earth only consisted of Arabia, Jerusalem, Egypt and Abyssinia.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #50 - November 12, 2010, 01:50 AM

    Regarding the position of women, many of the seers (Rishi) of the vedas were women. I guess the position of women in Ancient India was similar to pre-islamic Arabia, baby daughters were buried but powerful women like Khajida also existed.


    No. There weren't. Females cannot be Sages.

    Not to even speak of the fact that

    1) females were not allowed access to revealed scriptures
    2) females were not allowed to initiate prayers or recite hymns in a gathering that includes males
    3) females were not allowed to bear law
    4) females were not allowed to perform rituals that were exclusively spiritual

    Ancient Vedic society was patriarchal, especially in matters of religion.

    Which is a good thing if you ask me. Females should be relieved off, the fuss of 'sprituality' and all that nonsense.

    However there are instances in the Vedas, of the Sage's wives having conversations with them or others. Interestingly this too is only so after their wives initiate them into doing so by first asking profound questions i.e displaying intelligence and eagerness for wisdom.

    (genuinely)intelligent women are hard to find. Roll Eyes *sigh*




    Celestial nymphs often tried to seduce the Sages in order to break them of their austerities.


    Sages were men who were supposed to have a strong sense of control over their own passions. Sages were ascetics during certain periods of their lives. This cannot be, if they were females.

    It is very difficult for a woman to do without a male, providing her sexual, emotional-psychological and economical needs. Especially so in those ancient times. Women need a male figure to be their source of comfort and security. Some women tend to want them from two seperate males. Geek friend to pour out to. And a randomn stud for security.

    I can't be either of the two because I need a female who I can pour out to myself (considering I tend to perceive things deeply) ohmy and also her being the same female figure to relate to sexually thoroughly.  I look at sex as a matter of skill.(that's how the Sages saw - Kama Sutra etc) But sex that is without any type of connection is not the most enjoyable or noble.

    Because sometimes you talk to her emotionally about important and personal decisions or experiences in life, and then your eyes dazzle under the moonlight and you look into her eyes... you feel a deep connection and romantic...

    I guess you can call me as a loser or whatever, but I need a lover who is also a mother, sister and friend.

    Mother - you lie on her lap and she brushes her fingers against your hair and offers sweet words
    Sister - her being stubborn and feisty and throws tantrums and have playful arguments
    Friend - to have long and deep conversations with and she being interesting to listen to (often you have to bite your teeth when listening to attractive females talk  Angry )

    And a man's standards is based upon the type of women he has intimacies with.

    Why?

    Men are "weaker" when it comes to sexuality. Men's needs are stronger sexually compared to women's. Men's sexual impulses drive them more, a man gets more easily attracted to the opposite gender. Men tend to have more frequent urges that compel them to seek females. And men tend to be attracted to more females simultaneously. Sex also is more pleasurable and satisfying for males.

    Any man can find himself a prostitute. That puts you in the category of the average wanker.

    The man who restricts himself to a proper suitable woman is the one who has a mastery over himself.
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #51 - November 12, 2010, 08:15 AM

    Actually the orthodox sects dont allow women to take up sanyas however it does not change the fact that many women have contributed to the Vedas. They are called Brahma-vadinis. Some of the women are Gargi, Lopamudra, Maitreyi, Shradda, Yami vak etc. Now the orthodox sects believe that a womans duty lies in marrying and serving her husband but it wasnt always so.

    There are smritis that allow for a woman to study the Vedas if she undergoes Upanayana, but again the sects debate the validity of these scriptures.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sannyasa
    http://kamakotimandali.com/misc/womenveda.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreyi

    It is better to remain quiet and have people think that you are an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
  • Re: Why did the main Prophets only come from the Middle East?
     Reply #52 - November 12, 2010, 08:38 AM


    I guess you can call me as a loser or whatever, but I need a lover who is also a mother, sister and friend.

    Mother - you lie on her lap and she brushes her fingers against your hair and offers sweet words
    Sister - her being stubborn and feisty and throws tantrums and have playful arguments



    eugh i nearly threw up, please warn with a disclaimer before you write shit like that.

    I almost imagined you and your feisty sister playing a game of grab-ass.

    *starts crying*
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