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Theme Changer

 Topic: Atheism+

 (Read 4524 times)
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  • Re: Atheism+
     Reply #30 - September 07, 2012, 02:24 PM

    I am an Atheist ; Therefore,------------------ ?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBH92H2BOPk&feature=g-all-lik



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Atheism+
     Reply #31 - September 13, 2012, 02:14 PM

    http://atheismminus.com/


    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Atheism+
     Reply #32 - September 13, 2012, 03:26 PM

     Cheesy Cheesy  Can you expect  pureatheism.com after this?



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Atheism+
     Reply #33 - September 13, 2012, 09:52 PM

    Sam Harris on the problem with atheism.

    Quote
    My concern with the use of the term “atheism” is both philosophical and strategic. I’m speaking from a somewhat unusual and perhaps paradoxical position because, while I am now one of the public voices of atheism, I never thought of myself as an atheist before being inducted to speak as one. I didn’t even use the term in The End of Faith, which remains my most substantial criticism of religion. And, as I argued briefly in Letter to a Christian Nation, I think that “atheist” is a term that we do not need, in the same way that we don’t need a word for someone who rejects astrology. We simply do not call people “non-astrologers.” All we need are words like “reason” and “evidence” and “common sense” and “bullshit” to put astrologers in their place, and so it could be with religion.

    If the comparison with astrology seems too facile, consider the problem of racism. Racism was about as intractable a social problem as we have ever had in this country. We are talking about deeply held convictions. I’m sure you have all seen the photos of lynchings in the first half of the 20th century—where seemingly whole towns in the South, thousands of men, women and children—bankers, lawyers, doctors, teachers, church elders, newspaper editors, policemen, even the occasional Senator and Congressman—turned out as though for a carnival to watch some young man or woman be tortured to death and then strung up on a tree or lamppost for all to see.

    Seeing the pictures of these people in their Sunday best, having arranged themselves for a postcard photo under a dangling, and lacerated, and often partially cremated person, is one thing, but realize that these genteel people, who were otherwise quite normal, we must presume—though unfailing religious—often took souvenirs of the body home to show their friends—teeth, ears, fingers, knee caps, internal organs—and sometimes displayed them at their places of business.

    Of course, I’m not saying that racism is no longer a problem in this country, but anyone who thinks that the problem is as bad as it ever was has simply forgotten, or has never learned, how bad, in fact, it was.

    So, we can now ask, how have people of good will and common sense gone about combating racism? There was a civil rights movement, of course. The KKK was gradually battered to the fringes of society. There have been important and, I think, irrevocable changes in the way we talk about race—our major newspapers no longer publish flagrantly racist articles and editorials as they did less than a century ago—but, ask yourself, how many people have had to identify themselves as “non-racists” to participate in this process? Is there a “non-racist alliance” somewhere for me to join?

    Attaching a label to something carries real liabilities, especially if the thing you are naming isn’t really a thing at all. And atheism, I would argue, is not a thing. It is not a philosophy, just as “non-racism” is not one. Atheism is not a worldview—and yet most people imagine it to be one and attack it as such. We who do not believe in God are collaborating in this misunderstanding by consenting to be named and by even naming ourselves.

    Another problem is that in accepting a label, particularly the label of “atheist,” it seems to me that we are consenting to be viewed as a cranky sub-culture. We are consenting to be viewed as a marginal interest group that meets in hotel ballrooms. I’m not saying that meetings like this aren’t important. I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t think it was important. But I am saying that as a matter of philosophy we are guilty of confusion, and as a matter of strategy, we have walked into a trap. It is a trap that has been, in many cases, deliberately set for us. And we have jumped into it with both feet.

    While it is an honor to find myself continually assailed with Dan [Dennett], Richard [Dawkins], and Christopher [Hitchens] as though we were a single person with four heads, this whole notion of the “new atheists” or “militant atheists” has been used to keep our criticism of religion at arm’s length, and has allowed people to dismiss our arguments without meeting the burden of actually answering them. And while our books have gotten a fair amount of notice, I think this whole conversation about the conflict between faith and reason, and religion and science, has been, and will continue to be, successfully marginalized under the banner of atheism.

    So, let me make my somewhat seditious proposal explicit: We should not call ourselves “atheists.” We should not call ourselves “secularists.” We should not call ourselves “humanists,” or “secular humanists,” or “naturalists,” or “skeptics,” or “anti-theists,” or “rationalists,” or “freethinkers,” or “brights.” We should not call ourselves anything. We should go under the radar—for the rest of our lives. And while there, we should be decent, responsible people who destroy bad ideas wherever we find them.


    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Atheism+
     Reply #34 - September 13, 2012, 10:55 PM

    ^ I agree with Sam Harris but I lose him when he moves on to terms like secularist, humanist, and naturalist. 

    I agree that Atheism, non-theism, agnosticism are just as meaning less as non bigfootist or atoothfariest BUT the terms Naturalist, Secularist and Humanist actually do have meaning because they illustrate ideas, concepts and values that the person using them actually believes in unlike atheism which just describes what people don't believe.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Re: Atheism+
     Reply #35 - September 13, 2012, 11:58 PM

    This Is Atheism Plus
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqlW0WdB5lM

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Atheism+
     Reply #36 - September 14, 2012, 01:22 AM

    the enormous amounts of racism that surrounds the discourse around Islam

    Hasn't proper discussion of Islam been hampered for decades by excessive sensitivity to the fact that most Muslims are not white?

    This excessive sensitivity is in itself a form of racism, and happily it's on the wane. But the process of waning ain't always pretty.
  • Re: Atheism+
     Reply #37 - November 12, 2012, 01:23 PM

    From rationalskepticism.org:

    Quote from: surreptitious57
    I have been an active member from day one at Atheism Plus but have now decided to stop posting. I may lurk from time to time but that will be it for me. This is mutually beneficial - it stops me from unnecessarily dominating their space and them from wasting time and energy in engaging me. What follows are my thoughts based upon my experience there.

    The majority view is that I as a straight white male am responsible for all the homphobia, racism and misogyny that pervades society. A charge I absolutely reject. I cannot help my sexuality, race or gender so should not have that used against me as a reason to explain discrimination. I wish society was absolutely equal where such division did not exist but I personally am not responsible for that. I do accept that I should listen more to those who are the victims of discrimination. That I do agree with. But where I live being white and male is actually not the default position anyway and I have no problem with that. But the mere referencing of an opinion coming from one apparently as privileged as I has to be curtailed in language so politically correct it stifles debate and I am not interested in that.

    When language manipulation is required just to post, I get worried as this is one step away from thought control and is something I absolutely reject. An example : you cannot refer to prostitutes as hookers unless you happen to be or have been one yourself. Now I am all in favour of avoiding offence, but denying anyone their right of free speech within the boundaries of acceptability is not on. I was told that it is not my place to decide what words are acceptable or unacceptable. My take on that is to consult the acknowledged authority on this: The Oxford English Dictionary. If they say a word can be used in a particular way, then that is good enough for me. I am all in favour of avoiding offence but not at the expense of being censored by someone else because they decide my choice of language is unacceptable to them. Many have given their lives to protect my freedom to exercise free speech. No one takes that away from me. No one. I do not censor the words of others so please do not censor mine.

    I think that the hate that has been refrenced of the site is sad. There are those who say that this is inevitable on the net but there is no justification for it. The posting of it whether it be homophobic or racist or misogynistic is unacceptable and  I condemn it outright. I am all in favour of absolute free speech but with rights come responsibilities and while one can say whatever one wants, one needs to be aware of the power of words. They are more so than you might think. I hope those responsible desist in spreading such hate - they are harming others and It is not right.

    I sincerly wish Atheism Plusall the best. I hope they can become what they want to - a place for the marginalised. I hope the abuse stops and I hope the moderation becomes less so over time. It has been a learning curve and at times uncomfortable. But it is good to go beyond one's comfort zone once in a while. I agree with what they are doing, just not the way they are doing it. I engaged for as long as i could. I tried my best. I have taken some good from it and hope to understand more as a consequence. Learning is a continuous thing. It is not something you ever stop doing. I wish you all the best Atheism Plus in trying to make the world a better place. I am sorry I did not make it but I will try to improve as a human being nonetheless. Thank you and all the best.


    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »