Well you didn't really say that in the title, but now that you've said it, *opens pandora's box*
I feel really judged physically by guys. I even saw my lecturer's eyes slip somewhere while I looked at the paper and looked back up. I guess he didn't expect me to look up so soon. And I'm always so covered...I wish I knew how to deal with it, but the way I was raised, girls are sinful + media images of all these women and how they use their bodies. Gosh, it's so hard, I don't even know how to explain it. But I feel so defensive around guys and I think I come across as cold and bitchy when I don't mean to..... but I'm scared of falling into the category of a giggly/flirt/slut stereotype. I don't know how to balance coming across as smart/respectful but still warm enough for someone to smile to.
Sometimes I notice that the person keeps a serious face/tone with me, until I crack a smile, and only then they smile back and relax a bit. Plus, seeing movies and overhearing the way guys talk about girls...It scares the shit out of me knowing that someone could bring me up in a convo that way..
Ok folks, this thread is back from the dead like Zombie Jesus. Hold onto your hats and don't piss your pants.
I promised Jila I'd take an honest crack at Pandora's Box, since I'm thoroughly steeped in the culture that she's finding rather odd.
Warning: my post may contain stereotypes!Oh dear! How will civilisation ever survive such horrors?
Chill out. Stereotypes are just generalisations. Everyone uses generalisations from time to time. They can be useful for brevity, so I'm going to use them. I'll be using cultural stereotypes, racial stereotypes, sexual stereotypes, gender stereotypes, and whatever other stereotypes I feel like using. If you like stereotypes, you're gonna love this.
Welcome, stereotype lovers! 
Now on the other hand, some people claim to be vehemently against stereotypes. They don't really mean this, of course. You can verify this by looking back through what they're on record as saying. If you do this, you'll see them casually using stereotypes on occasion, and casually agreeing with other people's casual use of stereotypes.
When they claim to be vehemently agianst stereotypes, what they really mean is that they are vehemently against any stereotypes that they regard as being somehow threatening to their personal agenda of the moment. They wont actually say that of course, because it rather lacks the desired sense of divinely mandated righteousness.
It is, nonetheless, true.
So, if you see a stereotype in a post and require clarification regarding the author's view of its appropriate limits of applicability, there's certainly no harm in asking for such clarification. However, if you just want to flip out because you encountered a stereotype and found it apparently indigestible, and if flipping out and ranting about what you think the point is seems the most important thing in the world to you, and if you're determined to continue on said course despite any and all efforts to persuade you that perhaps a change of course might be beneficial, then don't read the whole goddammed post and then start bleating about how much you didn't like it.
Just fuck off now. Kthnx.
Teh PostThis is the good bit.
Well you didn't really say that in the title, but now that you've said it, *opens pandora's box*
I feel really judged physically by guys. I even saw my lecturer's eyes slip somewhere while I looked at the paper and looked back up. I guess he didn't expect me to look up so soon. And I'm always so covered...I wish I knew how to deal with it, but the way I was raised, girls are sinful + media images of all these women and how they use their bodies.
I asked Jila, via PM, whether she meant physically judged or morally judged. Apparently it's both.
I'm not going to bother commenting about how men who have recently immigrated to Australia from an Islamic country might react. I'm not one of them anyway, and I think everyone is clear on their likely views. I'll address how the Average Australian is likely to see things. Yes, that's a stereotype. Told ya you'd love this.
For a start, it's unlikely that you're being morally judged. Why not? Because Australians are infinitely more slutty than you'll ever be.
By the standards you were raised with, Australia is a really slutty place. The locals are so far ahead of you in the slutty stakes that you'll probably never catch up, and they're so used to it that they'll probably never notice. Their concept of slutty is so far off your charts that it's not a category you need to worry about falling into. Worrying about that is much like worrying that your favourite aunty is going to turn into Buraq and fly out the window. It's just not gonna happen in practice.
We're talking about a country where it is regarded as normal, and not the slightest bit daring, shameless, immoral or whatever, for women to walk around in shorts and a t shirt. Nobody thinks this is sinful. Nobody thinks those woman are "using their bodies". Nobody gives a rat's arse. Most Aussies hardly even have a concept of "sinful". Not really. They can probably give a reasonable definition of the word if pressed, but it's not something that enters into their daily thoughts in any way.
"But Os!" you exclaim "That means women having
legs! In public!"
Umm, yeah. Well y'see, I know it's totally against sharia and all that, but over here legs are regarded as the normal method by which a woman keeps her arse off the ground. Nobody is surprised to see them. If you made a fuss about it, nobody would understand what the fuss was about.
If you need some general tips about how to dress in public in Australia, I suggest using your dear old Iraqi mother's opinions as a good guideline.
Take 1: Put some outfit on, and go ask Mum what she thinks.
Reaction: She says you look fine.
Conclusion: FFS, that will never do. The locals will think you're a cross between Osama's missus and the Mother Superior of the local convent.
Take 2: Put next outfit on, and go ask Mum again.
Reaction: Mum goes red in the face, and starts lecturing you about how no daughter of hers blah blah blah blah....
Conclusion: Hmm. Not bad. Probably suitable for funerals, or for a job interview with a particularly stuffy firm of accountants.
Back to the wardrobe for Take 3: Put third outfit on, and go ask Mum again.
Reaction: Mum's eyes bug out, her jaw hits the floor, and she immediately faints without saying a word.
Conclusion: Bonzer. Looking good, mate. Time to hit the streets.
Physically? Yes, you are being judged physically. It's not just something that you feel is happening. It really is happening. This will happen regardless of what you wear. The only way to avoid it is to spend your life hiding in a dark corner.
Now before anyone gets wound up about that, let's be perfectly honest here. I've known enough women long enough and well enough to know that women judge men physically too. If anyone even thinks about claiming that "Oh that's different", I'll have no hesitation in calling bullshit. It's not different at all. Not only that, but I've known enough women well enough and long enough to know that, yes folks, women judge women physically too. Sometimes there's a sexual motive for this. Sometimes it's just competitiveness.
Speaking of competitiveness, I have even heard some women say that in general they prefer the company of men, because they find that women are far too bitchy and competitive with them, while men aren't. Obviously this is going to depend on the individual, and on which members of either sex they happen to be familiar with, but I have heard it said by perfectly sane women.
The point here is: what, exactly, is the big deal about men judging women physically? You may have been programmed to feel it is intimidating, but the vast majority of the time it is not going to be any threat to you at all. Can it be overdone? Sure. If you catch some bloke staring at your tits you are perfectly entitled, under Australian federal law, to bail him up and tell him to stop being such a bloody dickhead. It's what our Prime Minister would do, so don't feel you have to be shy about it.
Ok, the next bit. Don't worry about being seen as giggly or flirty. In general, you wont be seen as flirty unless you are actually flirting. I mean really flirting, not just smiling. Giggly? Well that'll depend on how much you giggle, which I gather is not much. So no, probably not a big deal either.
Smiling? Yes, you're allowed to. Nobody is going to want to stone you for it. Just chill (as much as you can) and be yourself. If there's a minor misunderstanding along the way, you can easily straighten it out. It's not going to be the end of the world.
Slutty? Mate, seriously, you wouldn't know how. If you really need definitions for "slutty" in Australian terms I can give you pointers, but I really doubt you are going to go anywhere near there. Said definition would involve things like mumblepants and entire football teams. Not your department, methinks.
Guys talking about girls? Yes, they can be bloody crude about it. If they are
serious about their crudeness, as in having no actual respect of liking for women, then they're dickheads. The best thing to do with dickheads is to shoot them and improve the gene pool. Unfortunately this is illegal, and will result in a lot of boring paperwork, so just ignore dickheads and/or tell them to fuck off. As an Australian sheila, you are required to develop this skill and will find it very handy.
Will they ever talk that way about you? Probably. My guess is that if you live long enough it'll be inevitable, sooner or later. It may well have happened already, without you even noticing. This may give you some idea of how much of a problem it really is (ie: about as big as you choose to make it).
Oh, by the way, did I mention that women talk crudely about men at times?
Ok, all joking aside, was that helpful? Anything else you'd like clarified or raised?
Topic: The complete idiot ex-Muslim man's guide to understanding women