Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry

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- HenriMonier
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #30 - March 13, 2009, 03:48 PM

Quote from: abdalwali on March 13, 2009, 03:45 PM
Quote from: FinallyFree on March 13, 2009, 03:40 PM
Quote from: abdalwali on March 13, 2009, 03:37 PM
Quote from: Zaephon on March 13, 2009, 03:29 PM
Quote from: abdalwali
You don't need to follow the crap that Muhmmad (sal.) spouted. Just the good bits.

Cherry-picking you mean.

The "good people" whom you listed mostly arose despite Islam, not because of Islam --and even if Islam inspired them, they were feeding on the meagre nice bits. They are notable precisely because Islamic orthodoxy is so abhorrent and vicious.

Reducing Islam to harmless, personal mysticism is alright. But you cannot claim that Islam is a wholesome religion because a handful of notable and inspiring Muslims graced the planet in the past, or that the nice bits can somehow redeem the greater malice.

Man, I don't disagree with you, Rashna or FF (although I think the Bundahishn was a late composition). I'm not a believer - I'm somewhat of an Islamophile. Why is it so terrible? Why are people so averse to this? When I hear Rakim Allah rap "take you out of triple stage darkness" in I Aint No Joke he's actually quoting Surah 39 verse 6. Am I not allowed to dig this?

As for your last quote. I don't need to defend Muhammad - I'm not a believer. Anyway it's not in any of the Sihah Sittah

Suffice to say, if he said it, fuck him. Ya dig?

It isn't terrible, but it certainly is completely irrational. If you find some bits of the religion good and some bits bad, that doesn't mean you have to disbelieve. Most Muslims seem to cherry-pick Islam and that's why Muslims go through many phases in a lifetime, because they can pick and choose what to practice and what-not. If it is a great thing, surely you would be a Muslim?

That's assuming you can believe. Once I could. Now I can't. End of story.

Quote
I am aware that you are an apostate, as I am. But I oppose Islam in its entirety --even Islamic culture for me is just an organic extension of its authoritarian nature. So if you are an Islamophile, I am an Islamophobe. We are merely involved in a logical discussion, I am questioning the points you have raised. There is nothing emotional about it.

I'm sorry if my post came across as emotional. There was nothing emotional intended in my post. For the record, I like your posts and respect you as a murtad, not that this is of any importance to you.

That's nonsense, lying to yourself is easy, learned Muslims do it all the time.

"I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #31 - March 13, 2009, 03:50 PM

Quote
That's nonsense, lying to yourself is easy, learned Muslims do it all the time.

Which part is nonsense? I assure you that I am not emotional at this present time. Perhaps there's something beneath my apparent feelings of which I'm not aware.

The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
- HenriMonier
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #32 - March 13, 2009, 03:52 PM

Quote from: abdalwali on March 13, 2009, 03:50 PM
Quote
That's nonsense, lying to yourself is easy, learned Muslims do it all the time.

Which part is nonsense? I assure you that I am not emotional at this present time. Perhaps there's something beneath my apparent feelings of which I'm not aware.

No, that once you stop believing you can't go back and start believing again, it's rubbish, you can believe in anything if you truly want to.

"I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #33 - March 13, 2009, 03:55 PM

Quote
No, that once you stop believing you can't go back and start believing again, it's rubbish, you can believe in anything if you truly want to.

Why do you think I believe? I can't believe. I wish I could but I don't but it doesn't mean that I don't see any good in the religion. This is interesting.

The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #34 - March 13, 2009, 04:19 PM

Ironically Rashna seems to be the only one here (aparts from the one person I've chatted to privately) who actually believes that I am an ex-Muslim and probably not a jihadi or anti-feminist. If you push someone's back against the wall s/he will react, at least in my experience. I won't say it's a good thing to have that much of an ego; it's one of a number of things I have to work on.

My 2 cents: bashing Muslims/Islam and seeing only the most pessimistic and cynical motives in Muhammad is not the way to go. If you want a better result, subtle propaganda and humour are far better. Hassan's videos are superior to anything I've read on this site.

Anyway, I wish y'all the best. Yet again.

The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
- HenriMonier
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #35 - March 13, 2009, 04:23 PM

Quote from: abdalwali on March 13, 2009, 04:19 PM
Ironically Rashna seems to be the only one here (aparts from the one person I've chatted to privately) who actually believes that I am an ex-Muslim and probably not a jihadi or anti-feminist. If you push someone's back against the wall s/he will react, at least in my experience. I won't say it's a good thing to have that much of an ego; it's one of a number of things I have to work on.

My 2 cents: bashing Muslims/Islam and seeing only the most pessimistic and cynical motives in Muhammad is not the way to go. If you want a better result, subtle propaganda and humour are far better. Hassan's videos are superior to anything I've read on this site.

Anyway, I wish y'all the best. Yet again.

Not true, I believe you are a ex-Muslim also, and I think Zaephon said something along the lines. A Muslim is anyone who believes the Shahada, an Ex-Muslim is anyone who used to believe in the Shahada, which makes you an ex-Muslim.

However I do still find it very odd that you have such a stand on Muhammad, I can understand the whole "reform Islam" stuff and the "good parts of Islam", but to see the good in such a person is very difficult and in my view, it serves no purpose. If Muhammad was a prophet and had a few good characteristics and actions, what was he? A historical figure, there are thousands upon thousands of historical figures, so being an Islamophile without being a Muslim is also hard to comprehend.

But hey it's your own belief, even if it makes no sense. I'm just happy you're an ex-Muslim to be perfectly honest.

"I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #36 - March 13, 2009, 04:29 PM

Yeah. I love Vladimir Lenin and Nikita Krushchev. Do I want a Soviet state? Nope.

Do I agree with the invasion of Hungary? Nope.

Ok I'm weird. If that's my crime then I can live with it.

And i change what I said about wishing everyone the best. I had good will 10 seconds ago but I'm a misanthrope right now so Fuck y'all

The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
- PeruvianSkies
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #37 - March 13, 2009, 04:37 PM

Quote from: abdalwali on March 13, 2009, 04:29 PM
Yeah. I love Vladimir Lenin and Nikita Krushchev. Do I want a Soviet state? Nope.

Do I agree with the invasion of Hungary? Nope.

Ok I'm weird. If that's my crime then I can live with it.

And i change what I said about wishing everyone the best. I had good will 10 seconds ago but I'm a misanthrope right now so Fuck y'all

I see nothing wrong with wanting to see the good in Mo. No one is completely evil. The reason I think many people criticise him so much in this forum is because he is a very influential figure and for this he carries a great burden. He messed it up quite badly.

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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #38 - March 13, 2009, 04:41 PM

Damn. I wanted "Fuck y'all" to be my last words on this forum but you're right Peruvian and I said that to my beloved just today. Muhammad made a complete balls-up. If only...

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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #39 - March 13, 2009, 04:44 PM

Quote from: abdalwali
However I do still find it very odd that you have such a stand on Muhammad, I can understand the whole "reform Islam" stuff and the "good parts of Islam", but to see the good in such a person is very difficult and in my view, it serves no purpose. If Muhammad was a prophet and had a few good characteristics and actions, what was he? A historical figure, there are thousands upon thousands of historical figures, so being an Islamophile without being a Muslim is also hard to comprehend.

+1

You are an apostate alright, I wrote it above.

Islam is not pure evil: no ideology can claim that title. Communism caused the deaths of tens of millions of people, but one cannot say it never had any positive effects. Pure evil cannot exist, because "evil" is defined and perceived as the anti-thesis of "good." There is no such thing as a pure disease, we can only talk about fatal diseases. Take a good look at the worst tyrants of the past: I am sure with enough digging, you can find good acts that each one did. Hitler allowed Germany to rebuild from the ashes of WWI, and get rid of the Treaty of Versailles, which was unjustly imposed upon the Weimar Republic. There wered moments when Mohammad was moved with compassion, pardoning people, giving alms etc. Is this what you want to hear?

There are a few good bits in Islam, Mohammad was occasionally a kind person. Actually, his initial career in Mecca was almost admirable, before the Hijrah. But this cannot change the fact that Mohammad devolved into a vile pedophile, a bloody marauder, and an intolerant monster in Madina. He became the worst tyrant he could create out of himself when circumstances allowed it.

You can admire Mohammad or Islamic culture, it is your choice. It is my choice to loathe them both.

Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #40 - March 13, 2009, 05:55 PM

I'm going a bit off topic but the link I gave to the article where Mohammed refused to give his 9 year old in marriage has this to say about the wedding of Fatima Zahra & Ali. http://www.ezsoftech.com/islamic/wedding.asp

The Prophet (S.A.W.) then asked for a jug of water; he sipped a small amount of the water and after gargling with it, placed it back in the jug. He then called for Fatima and sprayed her head and shoulders with that water and did the same thing to Ali (A.S.).

Is this a custom for the father in law in Muslim weddings? I haven't seen it though.

Or was this another sign of Mo's megalomania, the guy believed his gurgled water is very pious or something?

To be drenched with Mohammed's gargled water when you're all dolled in a nice wedding outfit!!Ewww!!

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #41 - March 13, 2009, 06:22 PM

Quote from: Rashna on March 13, 2009, 05:55 PM
I'm going a bit off topic but the link I gave to the article where Mohammed refused to give his 9 year old in marriage has this to say about the wedding of Fatima Zahra & Ali. http://www.ezsoftech.com/islamic/wedding.asp

The Prophet (S.A.W.) then asked for a jug of water; he sipped a small amount of the water and after gargling with it, placed it back in the jug. He then called for Fatima and sprayed her head and shoulders with that water and did the same thing to Ali (A.S.).

Is this a custom for the father in law in Muslim weddings? I haven't seen it though.

Or was this another sign of Mo's megalomania, the guy believed his gurgled water is very pious or something?

To be drenched with Mohammed's gargled water when you're all dolled in a nice wedding outfit!!Ewww!!

Nice wedding outfit? In Desert Arabia in the 7th Century? Lol

In all seriousness, this is another oddity found in the behaivour of Muhammad, one of those juicy bits that adds to the comedic value.

"I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #42 - March 13, 2009, 06:35 PM

He should have done something useful like change the water into wine.

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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #43 - March 13, 2009, 06:55 PM

Quote from: FinallyFree on March 13, 2009, 06:22 PM
Nice wedding outfit? In Desert Arabia in the 7th Century? Lol
In all seriousness, this is another oddity found in the behaivour of Muhammad, one of those juicy bits that adds to the comedic value.

Well, it'd be very disgusting even if he drenched a black niqab!

Quote from: Cheetah on March 13, 2009, 06:35 PM
He should have done something useful like change the water into wine.

Thats' what lesser & earlier Prophets' did. For Allah's last & greatest Prophet, the Quran is the biggest miracle, as Mo himself stated!

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
- PeruvianSkies
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #44 - March 13, 2009, 09:21 PM

Her silence indicates consent! Jesus! At least teach them to say yes ffs!

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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #45 - March 13, 2009, 10:33 PM

Quote from: awais on March 13, 2009, 11:36 AM
I heard from a Salafi friend of mine that he (Khomeini) violated a 6 year old girl.

Not for nothing, but Salafis also tell lots of stories of Shiahs having holy orgies in the dark. I like the one that ends, 'Then, the next morning the bro and sis discovered they had been with each other!' So not only are their beliefs deviant, not only do they have orgies, but they also do incest!

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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #46 - March 13, 2009, 11:11 PM

^ I know

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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #47 - March 13, 2009, 11:25 PM

Quote from: abdalwali on March 13, 2009, 04:29 PM
so Fuck y'all.

=========

Cool down.

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Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
Reply #48 - March 14, 2009, 11:41 AM

I read in a book, if IIRC by Bernard Lewis, some years ago that Khomeinny married an 11 years old when he was 27 and that she had a miscarriage when she was 12.

I have tried to look it up on the Net, but the references I find there says she was 10 and he was 28. Whatever - disgusting.

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