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Theme Changer

 Topic: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry

 (Read 11751 times)
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  • Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     OP - March 13, 2009, 11:34 AM

    Along with advising that the best age for girls' to marry was before puberty, & teaching how to have sex with babies,overthrowing the secular Shah- Khomeini was also a Sufi style poet! Proves Sufism is no barrier to obscurantist views or religious extremism! I think these poems are prett dumb, they perhaps indicate that e had a drinking problem!  sloshed

    www.najaf.org/english/book/16/29.htm

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #1 - March 13, 2009, 11:36 AM

    I heard from a Salafi friend of mine that he (Khomeini) violated a 6 year old girl.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #2 - March 13, 2009, 11:47 AM

    I heard from a Salafi friend of mine that he (Khomeini) violated a 6 year old girl.


    Could be, I hadn't heard that one before, here are a selection of the "enlightened" views of this mystic poet. dance

    "A woman may legally belong to a man in one of two ways; by continuing marriage or temporary marriage. In the former, the duration of the marriage need not be specified; in the latter, it must be stipulated, for example, that it is for a period of an hour, a day, a month, a year, or more."

    "A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not comitted a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."

    He certainly preached violating little girls', might as well have practiced it.  wacko

    "A father or a paternal grandfather has the right to marry off a child who is insane or has not reached puberty by acting as its representative. The child may not annul such a marriage after reaching puberty or regaining his sanity, unless the marriage is to his manifest disadvantage."

    "Any girl who is of age, that is, capable of understanding what is in her own best interest, if she wishes to get married and is a virgin, must procure the authorization of her father or paternal grandfather. The permission of her mother or brother is not required."

    "A marriage is annulled if a man finds that his wife is afflicted with one of the seven following disabilities: madness, leprosy, eczema, blindness, paralysis with aftereffects, malformation of the urinary and genital tracts or of the genital-tract and rectum through conjoining thereof, or vaginal malformation making Coitus impossible."

    "If a wife finds out after marriage that her husband is suffering from mental illness, that he is a castrate, impotent, or has had his testicles excised, she may apply for annulment of her marriage."

    "If a wife has her marriage annulled because her husband is unable to have sexual relations with her either vaginally or anally, he must pay her as damages one-half of her mehryeh (her price) specified in the marriage contract. If the husband or wife annuls the marriage for any of the above-mentioned reasons, the man owes nothing to the woman if they have had sexual relations together; if they have not, he must pay her the full amount of the dowry."

    "A Moslem woman may not marry a non-Moslem man; nor may a Moslem man marry a non-Moslem woman in continuing marriage, but he may take a Jewish or Christian woman in temporary marriage."

    "A woman who has contracted a continuing marriage does not have the right to go out of the house without her husband's permission; she must remain at his disposal for the fulfillment of any one of his desires, and may not refuse herself to him except for a religiously valid reason. If she is totally submissive to him, the husband must provide her with her food, clothing, and lodging, whether or not he has the means to do so."

    "A woman who refuses herself to her husband is guilty, and may not demand from him food, clothing, lodging, or any later sexual relations; however, she retains the right to be paid damages if she is repudiated."

    "If a man who has married a girl who has not reached puberty possesses her sexually before her ninth birthday, inflicting traumatisms upon her, he has no right to repeat such an act with her."

    "A man who has contracted a continuing marriage may not leave his wife for so long a time as to allow her to question the validity of the marriage; however, he is not obligated to spend one night out of every four with her."

    "A husband must have sexual relations with his wife at least once in every four months."

    "A woman who has been temporarily married in exchange for a previously established dowry has no right to demand that her daily expenses be paid by her husband, even when she becomes pregnant."

    "A temporary marriage, even though only one of convenience, is nevertheless legal."

    "A man must not abstain from having sexual relations with his temporary wife for more than four months.

    "If a father (or paternal grandfather) marries off his daughter (or granddaughter) in her absence without knowing for a certainty that she is alive, the marriage becomes null and void as soon as it is established that she was dead at the time of the marriage."

    "To look upon the face and hair of a girl who has not reached puberty, if it is done without intention of enjoyment thereof, and if one is not afraid of succumbing to temptation, may be tolerated. It is however recommended that one not look upon her belly or thighs, which must remain covered."

    "To look upon the faces and hands of Jewish or Christian women, if this is not done with intention of enjoyment thereof, and if one does not fear temptation, is tolerated."

    "A woman must hide her body and her hair from the eyes of men. It is highly recommended that she also hide them from those of prepubic boys, if she suspects that they may look upon her with lust."

    "If a man is called upon, for medical reasons, to look upon a woman other than his wife and to touch her body, he is permitted to do so,but if he can give such care by only looking at the body he must not touch it, and if he can give it by only touching, he must not look at it."

    "A woman who becomes pregnant as a result of adultery must not have an abortion. If a man commits adultery with an unmarried woman, and subsequently marries her, the child born of that marriage will be a bastard unless the parents can be sure it was conceived after they were married."

    "A child born of an adulterous father is legitimate."

    "The best person to breast-feed a newborn baby it its own mother. It is preferable that she not ask to be paid for such service, but that her husband pay her for it of his own free will. If the sum the mother asks for is greater than that charged by a wet nurse, the husband is free to take the child from its mother and turn it over to the wet nurse."

    "A man who repudiates his wife must be of sound mind and past the age of puberty. He must do so of his own free will and without any constraint; therefore, if the formula for divorce is spoken in jest the marriage is not annulled."

    "A woman temporarily married, say, for a month or a year, has her marriage automatically annulled at the end of that time, or at any other time when the husband releases her from the balance of her engagement. It is not necessary for this that there be any witnesses, or that the woman have had her period."

    "A woman who has not yet reached the age of nine or a menopausal woman may remarry immediately after divorce, without waiting the hundred days that are otherwise required."

    "A woman who has had her ninth birthday, or who has not yet entered menopause, must wait for three menstrual periods after her divorce before being allowed to remarry. If a woman who has not reached her ninth birthday or who has not entered menopause gets temporarily married, she must, at the end of the contract or when the husband has released her from part of it, wait two menstrual periods or forty-five days before marrying again."

    "If the father or paternal grandfather of a boy has him marry a woman for a temporary marriage, he may prematurely cancel it in the boy's interest, even if the marriage was contracted before the boy reached the age of puberty. If, for example, a fourteen-year-old boy has been married off to a woman for a period of two years, they may return her freedom to the woman before this time has run its course; but a continuing marriage cannot be broken in this way."

    "If a man repudiates his wife without informing her of it, and continues to meet her expenses for a period of, say, a year, and at the end of that time informs her that he got a divorce a year earlier and shows her proof of it, he may require that she return to him anything he has bought or given her during that time, provided that she has not used it up or consumed it, in which case he cannot demand its return."

    "If a child dies within the mother's womb and it is a danger to her life to leave it there, it must be extracted in the easiest way possible; it can. if need be, cut into pieces; this should be done by the woman's husband or a midwife."

    "A woman who wishes to pursue her studies toward the end of being able to earn her living through respectable work, and who has a male teacher, may do so if she keeps her face covered and has no contact with men; but if-that is inevitable, and religious and moral tenets are thus undermined, she must give up her studies. Girls and boys who attend coeducational classes in grammar schools, high schools, universities, or other teaching establishments, and who, in order to legalize such a situation, wish to contract a temporary marriage may do so without the permission of their fathers. The same applies if the boy and girl are in love but hesitate to ask for such permission."


    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #3 - March 13, 2009, 12:04 PM

    Sodomy? That's not even allowed in Islam.
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #4 - March 13, 2009, 12:19 PM

    DAMN! finmad

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #5 - March 13, 2009, 01:10 PM

    Sodomy? That's not even allowed in Islam.

    ==========

    mistranslated,

    it's:  thigh-ing, rather.

    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #6 - March 13, 2009, 01:15 PM

    What's thigh-ing? Is it doggy style?

    Is it something to do with this?

    Jabir (b. Abdullah) (Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Jews used to say that when one comes to one's wife through the vagina, but being on her back, and she becomes pregnant, the child has a squint. So the verse came down:" Your wives are your ti'Ith; go then unto your tilth, as you may desire." (Muslim)

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #7 - March 13, 2009, 01:21 PM

    placing the male organ between her thighs and massage it.


    Shiites believe Mu. did that to the 6 Y/O Aisha,  grin12

    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #8 - March 13, 2009, 01:23 PM

    placing the male organ between her thighs and massage it.


    Shiites believe Mu. did that to the 6 Y/O Aisha,  grin12


    LOL. That's sick.

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #9 - March 13, 2009, 01:27 PM

    Shiites believe Mu. did that to the 6 Y/O Aisha,  grin12

    how do you know that?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #10 - March 13, 2009, 01:31 PM

    I'm surprised Abu Bakr didn't stick a shank in his throat (salallahu alaihi wasallam).

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #11 - March 13, 2009, 01:33 PM

    I'm surprised Abu Bakr didn't stick a shank in his throat (salallahu alaihi wasallam).


    Abu Bakr had asked for Fatima Zahra's hand in marriage, maybe he wanted to do the same to Mohammed's daughter!  Wink

    Prophet Mohammed refused these proposals when Fatima was "nine" coz he said that she's too young. This was ironically Ayesha's age when she married him.Well, one's own daughter is always special! Roll Eyes
    www.ezsoftech.com/islamic/wedding.asp

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #12 - March 13, 2009, 01:35 PM

    placing the male organ between her thighs and massage it.


    Shiites believe Mu. did that to the 6 Y/O Aisha,  grin12

    I've heard this too but haven't seen any evidence for it.
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #13 - March 13, 2009, 01:53 PM

    placing the male organ between her thighs and massage it.


    Shiites believe Mu. did that to the 6 Y/O Aisha,  grin12

    I've heard this too but haven't seen any evidence for it.


    If there are people who worship a guy and believe he did this to a 6 year old girl then... whoa... i mean... WHOA!!! wacko

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #14 - March 13, 2009, 01:58 PM

    Shiites believe Mu. did that to the 6 Y/O Aisha,  grin12

    how do you know that?

    ==========

    Online fatwa, it's link doesn't work anymore (think they deleted after being criticized);

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
    الحمد لله رب العالمين، وأفضل الصلاة وأتم التسليم على سيدنا محمد خاتم الأنبياء والمرسلين، وعلى آله وأصحابه أجمعين، والتابعين، ومن تبع هداهم بإحسان إلى يوم الدين، وبعد:
    فالذي ثبت عن رسول الله صلى الله تعالى عليه وسلم أنه عقد على السيدة عائشة أم المؤمنين رضي الله تعالى عنها عقد زواج شرعي في مكة المكرمة قبل الهجرة وهي في السابعة من عمرها، ودخل بها في المدينة المنورة بعد الهجرة وهي بنت تسع سنين، وربما وقع ذلك منه معها(المفاخذة) بعد العقد الشرعي عليها وصيرورتها زوجة له، أما قبل العقد فمستحيل ذلك، وعلى من يدعي الخلاف إثباته.
    والله تعالى أعلم.

    أ. د. أحمد الحجي الكردي


    http://www.islamic-fatwa.net/viewtopic.php?TopicID=8330


    will try to find another one.

    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #15 - March 13, 2009, 01:59 PM

    placing the male organ between her thighs and massage it.


    Shiites believe Mu. did that to the 6 Y/O Aisha,  grin12

    I've heard this too but haven't seen any evidence for it.


    If there are people who worship a guy and believe he did this to a 6 year old girl then... whoa... i mean... WHOA!!! wacko

    Indeed. Some muslims are a scary bunch. I almost wish I had never gone on Ummah.com, I didn't realise the problem was so bad!
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #16 - March 13, 2009, 02:04 PM

    I'm surprised Abu Bakr didn't stick a shank in his throat (salallahu alaihi wasallam).


    Abu Bakr had asked for Fatima Zahra's hand in marriage, maybe he wanted to do the same to Mohammed's daughter!  Wink

    Prophet Mohammed refused these proposals when Fatima was "nine" coz he said that she's too young. This was ironically Ayesha's age when she married him.Well, one's own daughter is always special! Roll Eyes
    www.ezsoftech.com/islamic/wedding.asp


    I admitted that it was selfish that my daughter was the reason for my apostasy. When you have children you'll understand. There is nothing you won't do for you child. If it means shanking the Messenger of Allah (SWT) you'd do it. I was never a misogynist. I simply denied the various mysognistic hadiths and Quranic interpretations like many Muslims. My apostasy was solely due to the various interpretations. If at all something can be interpreted as misogynistic i don't want my daughter to have to even consider that it could be interpreted as such. I am not ashamed that I left Islam for my daughter - even though Islam helped me immensely. My daughter is more precious to me than Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (salallahu alaihi wasallam). If both of them combined to contrive something that would compromise her freedom I would tell them both to fuck off. One's daughter is special. I respect that about Muhammad even as I despise his other actions.

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #17 - March 13, 2009, 02:23 PM

    I'm surprised Abu Bakr didn't stick a shank in his throat (salallahu alaihi wasallam).


    Abu Bakr had asked for Fatima Zahra's hand in marriage, maybe he wanted to do the same to Mohammed's daughter!  Wink

    Prophet Mohammed refused these proposals when Fatima was "nine" coz he said that she's too young. This was ironically Ayesha's age when she married him.Well, one's own daughter is always special! Roll Eyes
    www.ezsoftech.com/islamic/wedding.asp


    I admitted that it was selfish that my daughter was the reason for my apostasy. When you have children you'll understand. There is nothing you won't do for you child. If it means shanking the Messenger of Allah (SWT) you'd do it. I was never a misogynist. I simply denied the various mysognistic hadiths and Quranic interpretations like many Muslims. My apostasy was solely due to the various interpretations. If at all something can be interpreted as misogynistic i don't want my daughter to have to even consider that it could be interpreted as such. I am not ashamed that I left Islam for my daughter - even though Islam helped me immensely. My daughter is more precious to me than Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (salallahu alaihi wasallam). If both of them combined to contrive something that would compromise her freedom I would tell them both to fuck off. One's daughter is special. I respect that about Muhammad even as I despise his other actions.


    I don't see myself having a child in the near future, & I somehow feel that I keep striking a nerve with you which upsets me, but if I may disagree(again!) there're some stuff I won't do with another's daughter(or son) if I know that they're potentially harmful.

    I really love my baby sister & I'll naturally take better care of her than of other little girls', I'll buy her dolls', invent games etc. But I certainly won't let another little girl get into a potentially harmful situation, which I wouldn't want my sister in.

    Jesus said, "Love your neighbour as yourself," which I certainly won't do & don't do.I don't feel that I'm a crappy human being for it. But I won't intentionally harm my neighbours by doing something that I won't want to happen to me.

    Prophet Mohammed's act in marrying little Ayesha, when he wouldn't let his little girl be married at that age IMO is not a respectable action, its a base action-it shows that he was probably aware that marrying so young is not in a girl's best interest.

    I'm sure you don't love your little daughter's friends as much as you love her & that's perfectly natural,nor would you take as much care of other little girls' as your daughter's but would you go out of your way to do something that might harm a little girl, when you won't let such a thing happen to your daughter?Then that would definitely be a vile act.

    Prophet Mohammed was the one who asked for Ayesha's hand from Abu Bakr, when Abu Bakr was hesitant as they'd made a pact of brotherhood, Mohammed said that its perfectly allright in Allah's sight. Yet, he wouldn't allow such a thing for his own child.

    Would you actively do such a thing to someone else's child, that you know would be unpleasant if it happened to your child?

    Where's the respectable behaviour in that? Pedophiles go to Philippines & Thailand to f*** little girls' although they might never do such a thing to their own daughters' & even go out of their way to protect their own daughters' from potential child abusers. Are such men respectable?

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #18 - March 13, 2009, 02:53 PM

    Quote
    would you go out of your way to do something that might harm a little girl, when you won't let such a thing happen to your daughter?Then that would definitely be a vile act.


    OK. It's unfortunate but I'll admit that in my worst moments, I'm a misanthrope. Fuck people. i don't give a shit about them. I am not interested in young girls, that's not my thing. I accept that the golden rule is a good thing but again, there's nothing I'd do to others that I wouldn't accept for myself. Fuck Muhammad (salallahu alaihi wa sallam) and Allah (SWT). I like the talk but I don't like the walk. Hate to admit it because the reverse is what's considered acceptable.

    My wife asked me today, "do you think that the evil Muhammad did was better than the good that came out of his religion? Weren't the Hazara Buddhist? Couldn't Zen have spread among them had the Arabs not invaded?" I accepted her contention but I still thought that Malcolm X was worth it. Ibn Arabi was worth the carnage. Mansur al-Hallaj, Mahmud Shabistani and a myriad others were worth the death and destruction. I know she's right, but I love to read Kitab al-Ahadiyyah, I love to read Shabistani talk about tawhid being found in idolatory. I love to read about the mulhid taqwa (to borrow a phrase from Awais) of Nazim Hikmet or Mirsaid Sultangaliev.

    I love that Razia Sultana rejected her Turkish traditions and ran away with her Ethiopian lover, the coming of Allah in the person of Master Fard Muhammad, Rabia al-Adawiyya's adventures into innerspace. I love the veganism of Bawa Muhaiyaddeen, the love poetry of Fakhruddin Iraqi,  the iconoclasm of Hassan-i Sabbah. I love "Lantern of the Path" by Jafar as-Sadiq (peace be upon him), and the "Sahifah al-Sajjadiyah" of Zayn al-Abidin (peace be upon him). Even though it was bad that Isabelle Eberhardt had to dress up as a man I love her writing as I do the teachings of Haji Bektas and his predecessor Ahmad Yasawi. I can dig  Badshah Khan being Ghandi's pupil and the numerous drugs consumed by Otman Baba. I love that Amina Wadud could lead a prayer in defiance of the Orthodox consensus and even Zainab al-Ghazali's defiance of Nasser despite her membership of the Ikhwan.

    Lex Hixon was a Buddhist and a Muslim at the same time and Toshihiko Izutsu showed the similarity of Taoism and Islam. You yourself said Asghar Ali Engineer was a good bloke and i think Anthony Mundine is a great role model for the Aborigines of Australia as G.M. Syed was for Sindhis. Sylviane Diouf showed the Muslim origin of many of the slaves in America, and I love the Romani music of Muharem Serbezovski and Saban Bajramovic. Ali Shariati was a communist in disguise and Mohammad Iqbal tried to modernise Islam  in disguise. Fatima Mernissi is a Muslim feminist - even if she is not accepted as Muslim by some. Mulla Sadra was a great philosopher. The Jadid movement of Tatarstan tried to reform Islam in the 19th century but was liquidated by Stalin.

    There is goodness in this religion and reform is entirely possible and I believe that it will happen even if it takes some time. Of course there is great wickedry. Does the good outweigh the wickedry? That was the essence of the discussion I had with my beloved today. All I can say is Allahu Alim - if, indeed there is such as Allah (SWT).




    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #19 - March 13, 2009, 03:04 PM

    If a father (or paternal grandfather) marries off his daughter (or granddaughter) in her absence without knowing for a certainty that she is alive, the marriage becomes null and void as soon as it is established that she was dead at the time of the marriage....  Huh?
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #20 - March 13, 2009, 03:07 PM

    If I rephrase my question & offer an alternate example?

    In Egypt, female circumcision is routine, & between the ages of 4 & 12, little girls' clitorises' are chopped off, leaving them unable to enjoy s** for life, besides many other potential complications' during childbirth.

    Example 1: An Egyptian father circumcises his daughter, because that is the only thing his culture has taught him, his mind has been programmed to accept that as right & desirable & he can't imagine his daughter uncircumcised, any more than he can imagine her running about naked in her late teens!

    What would such a man be? Maybe a misogynist, cruel father-but a victim of his culture for which reason he's forgivable.

    Example 2 An Egyptian father realises the harm that clitoridectomies cause to women's minds's & bodies' & so refuses to let her daughter  be circumcised but he actively encourages another little girl's dad to have his daughter circumcised, even if the other girl's dad was a tad hesitant at first

    What would such a man be? A loathsome, disgusting, evil man, a semi monster of a man? I'd think so.

    What do you make of a father who wouldn't let his little girl be married at 9, yet asked for his friend's daughter's hand in marriage, although his friend was hesitant, he actively encouraged his friend?

    I would never protect such a man, except if I was desperate to praise the faith, despite huge evidence to the contrary.  mysmilie_977

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #21 - March 13, 2009, 03:15 PM

    I realise that there's a great deal of excellent people who came out of an Islamic heritage, & Islam contributed to their goodness, Asghar Ali Engineer & even my grandpa are such people.

    However, I certainly won't defend the stuff I find abhorrent. I can't. I can't defend a Prophet's forced proselytization, religious bigotry or mis- treatment of other men's little girls' just because I hope an Islamic Reformation is possible & I see some good in the faith's teachings & practices.

    I'll defend the nice blokes like Asghar Ali Engineer while still condemning any reprehensible conduct of his Prophet, just like I'd condemn anyone else's reprehensible conduct. Cool

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #22 - March 13, 2009, 03:16 PM

    I know where you're coming from Rashna and I agree with you but Islam is greater than Muhammad. He only kick started it - and even then only with his musings on top of those that came before him.

    You don't need to follow the crap that Muhmmad (sal.) spouted. Just the good bits.

    You want Iran to be Zoroastrian but in their scriptures there's this passage:

    Quote
    As regards the negro one says, "Azi Dahak {Zohak}, during his reign, let loose a dev on a young woman, and let loose a young man on a parik. They performed coition with [the sight] of the apparition; the negro came into being through that [novel] kind of coition. (Bundahishn)


    I know you think that's crap but you still see some good in Zoroastrianism. Yet you deny me the same with Islam.

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #23 - March 13, 2009, 03:21 PM

    I know where you're coming from Rashna and I agree with you but Islam is greater than Muhammad. He only kick started it - and even then only with his musings on top of those that came before him.

    You don't need to follow the crap that Muhmmad (sal.) spouted. Just the good bits.

    You want Iran to be Zoroastrian but in their scriptures there's this passage:

    Quote
    As regards the negro one says, "Azi Dahak {Zohak}, during his reign, let loose a dev on a young woman, and let loose a young man on a parik. They performed coition with [the sight] of the apparition; the negro came into being through that [novel] kind of coition. (Bundahishn)


    I know you think that's crap but you still see some good in Zoroastrianism. Yet you deny me the same with Islam.


    I think it's apparant though that there are Zoroastrians (especially Iranians) who let the whole "Aryan" crap thing go to their heads. Plus if you consider how old the religion is you can see why it can be racialist.

    Islam on the other hand is pretensive and contradictory.

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #24 - March 13, 2009, 03:29 PM

    Quote from: abdalwali
    You don't need to follow the crap that Muhmmad (sal.) spouted. Just the good bits.

    Cherry-picking you mean.

    The "good people" whom you listed mostly arose despite Islam, not because of Islam --and even if Islam inspired them, they were feeding on the meagre nice bits. They are notable precisely because Islamic orthodoxy is so abhorrent and vicious.

    Reducing Islam to harmless, personal mysticism is alright. But you cannot claim that Islam is a wholesome religion because a handful of notable and inspiring Muslims graced the planet in the past, or that the nice bits can somehow redeem the greater malice.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #25 - March 13, 2009, 03:31 PM

    You want Iran to be Zoroastrian but in their scriptures there's this passage:

    Quote
    As regards the negro one says, "Azi Dahak {Zohak}, during his reign, let loose a dev on a young woman, and let loose a young man on a parik. They performed coition with [the sight] of the apparition; the negro came into being through that [novel] kind of coition. (Bundahishn)


    I know you think that's crap but you still see some good in Zoroastrianism. Yet you deny me the same with Islam.


    Well, thanks for that bit. It comes from the Book of Pahlavi, written after the Sassanid Era, long after Zarathrushtra' s demise, it isn't any part of his teachings but his followers' ideas, that Scripture is to Zoroastrians what Timidhi's hadiths are to Muslims.

    I won't reject Islam coz Zawahiri millennia after Prophet Mohammed called Obama a house slave, if I accept Islam on the basis of what the Prophet did regarding Bilal.

    What do you make of this racism allegedly by the Prophet, recorded in Ibn Ishaq?

    I heard the Apostle say: ?Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!' He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks?. Allah sent down concerning him: ?To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom." [9:61] "Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ?If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey's.'
    Ishaq 243

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #26 - March 13, 2009, 03:37 PM

    Quote from: abdalwali
    You don't need to follow the crap that Muhmmad (sal.) spouted. Just the good bits.

    Cherry-picking you mean.

    The "good people" whom you listed mostly arose despite Islam, not because of Islam --and even if Islam inspired them, they were feeding on the meagre nice bits. They are notable precisely because Islamic orthodoxy is so abhorrent and vicious.

    Reducing Islam to harmless, personal mysticism is alright. But you cannot claim that Islam is a wholesome religion because a handful of notable and inspiring Muslims graced the planet in the past, or that the nice bits can somehow redeem the greater malice.


    Man, I don't disagree with you, Rashna or FF (although I think the Bundahishn was a late composition). I'm not a believer - I'm somewhat of an Islamophile. Why is it so terrible? Why are people so averse to this? When I hear Rakim Allah rap "take you out of triple stage darkness" in I Aint No Joke he's actually quoting Surah 39 verse 6. Am I not allowed to dig this?

    As for your last quote.  I don't need to defend Muhammad - I'm not a believer. Anyway it's not in any of the Sihah Sittah  grin12

    Suffice to say, if he said it, fuck him. Ya dig?

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #27 - March 13, 2009, 03:40 PM

    Quote from: abdalwali
    You don't need to follow the crap that Muhmmad (sal.) spouted. Just the good bits.

    Cherry-picking you mean.

    The "good people" whom you listed mostly arose despite Islam, not because of Islam --and even if Islam inspired them, they were feeding on the meagre nice bits. They are notable precisely because Islamic orthodoxy is so abhorrent and vicious.

    Reducing Islam to harmless, personal mysticism is alright. But you cannot claim that Islam is a wholesome religion because a handful of notable and inspiring Muslims graced the planet in the past, or that the nice bits can somehow redeem the greater malice.


    Man, I don't disagree with you, Rashna or FF (although I think the Bundahishn was a late composition). I'm not a believer - I'm somewhat of an Islamophile. Why is it so terrible? Why are people so averse to this? When I hear Rakim Allah rap "take you out of triple stage darkness" in I Aint No Joke he's actually quoting Surah 39 verse 6. Am I not allowed to dig this?

    As for your last quote.  I don't need to defend Muhammad - I'm not a believer. Anyway it's not in any of the Sihah Sittah  grin12

    Suffice to say, if he said it, fuck him. Ya dig?


    It isn't terrible, but it certainly is completely irrational. If you find some bits of the religion good and some bits bad, that doesn't mean you have to disbelieve. Most Muslims seem to cherry-pick Islam and that's why Muslims go through many phases in a lifetime, because they can pick and choose what to practice and what-not. If it is a great thing, surely you would be a Muslim?

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #28 - March 13, 2009, 03:41 PM

    Quote from: abdalwali
    Man, I don't disagree with you, Rashna or FF (although I think the Bundahishn was a late composition). I'm not a believer - I'm somewhat of an Islamophile. Why is it so terrible? Why are people so averse to this? When I hear Rakim Allah rap "take you out of triple stage darkness" in I Aint No Joke he's actually quoting Surah 39 verse 6. Am I not allowed to dig this?

    You are allowed to do anything you like.

    I am aware that you are an apostate, as I am. But I oppose Islam in its entirety --even Islamic culture for me is just an organic extension of its authoritarian nature. So if you are an Islamophile, I am an Islamophobe. We are merely involved in a logical discussion, I am questioning the points you have raised. There is nothing emotional about it.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Ayatollah Khomeini's Mystical Sufi Style poetry
     Reply #29 - March 13, 2009, 03:45 PM

    Quote from: abdalwali
    You don't need to follow the crap that Muhmmad (sal.) spouted. Just the good bits.

    Cherry-picking you mean.

    The "good people" whom you listed mostly arose despite Islam, not because of Islam --and even if Islam inspired them, they were feeding on the meagre nice bits. They are notable precisely because Islamic orthodoxy is so abhorrent and vicious.

    Reducing Islam to harmless, personal mysticism is alright. But you cannot claim that Islam is a wholesome religion because a handful of notable and inspiring Muslims graced the planet in the past, or that the nice bits can somehow redeem the greater malice.


    Man, I don't disagree with you, Rashna or FF (although I think the Bundahishn was a late composition). I'm not a believer - I'm somewhat of an Islamophile. Why is it so terrible? Why are people so averse to this? When I hear Rakim Allah rap "take you out of triple stage darkness" in I Aint No Joke he's actually quoting Surah 39 verse 6. Am I not allowed to dig this?

    As for your last quote.  I don't need to defend Muhammad - I'm not a believer. Anyway it's not in any of the Sihah Sittah  grin12

    Suffice to say, if he said it, fuck him. Ya dig?


    It isn't terrible, but it certainly is completely irrational. If you find some bits of the religion good and some bits bad, that doesn't mean you have to disbelieve. Most Muslims seem to cherry-pick Islam and that's why Muslims go through many phases in a lifetime, because they can pick and choose what to practice and what-not. If it is a great thing, surely you would be a Muslim?


    That's assuming you can believe. Once I could. Now I can't. End of story.

    Quote
    I am aware that you are an apostate, as I am. But I oppose Islam in its entirety --even Islamic culture for me is just an organic extension of its authoritarian nature. So if you are an Islamophile, I am an Islamophobe. We are merely involved in a logical discussion, I am questioning the points you have raised. There is nothing emotional about it.


    I'm sorry if my post came across as emotional. There was nothing emotional intended in my post. For the record, I like your posts and respect you as  a murtad, not that this is of any importance to you.

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
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