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Theme Changer

 Topic: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"

 (Read 313373 times)
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1110 - September 04, 2010, 09:19 AM

    Chapter 4  - The Miraculous Nature of  the Qurʾān (cont...)

    Part 8 - Weakness of the Qurʾān (cont...)

    3. "Whoso disbelieves in Allah after his belief save him who is forced thereto and whose heart is content with the Faith but whoso opens (his) breast to disbelief on them is wrath from Allah and for them a mighty punishment." (16:106)

    I implore you by all you hold dear: Did you understand anything of that? I said to myself perhaps this verse has a mistake in transcription, or perhaps there is a word missing or corrupted. So I went to examine many different copies of manuscripts that were written at different periods to see if I could find some difference between them. But it was in vain. For there is complete accord between the all the manuscripts in all the times and places. Is this really the speech of the Lord of the worlds who challenged man and Jinn to bring the like of it? May God help the exegetes ho have to chisel through rock with their fingernails to get a tiny bit of water!

    All Muslims from the East to the West recite this verse every day morning and evening in their prayers and worship and they hear it in recitations of the Noble Qur'an, without any of them sensing any weakness in it or confusion or jarring.

    Indeed the blades of arrows are breaking the against blades of arrows*  (i.e. he has become 'punch-drunk'), so that the believer no-longer cares on which side falls his mortal blow. His linguistic sensitivity has become dulled, his taste slipshod, his instinct feeble. Indeed his awareness of the grating disharmony has died where verses of the Qur'an are concerned, but remain intact and healthy regarding everything else. Everything in him is still in it's original natural disposition. Nay, it has become more refined and accomplished. He has acquired skills, expertise and gifts in all things except here in this. For when faith reigns supreme reason diminishes and faith can do what reason can't!!

    I confess in all honesty that I wasn't fully attentive to this verse and many like it until now. If it hadn't been for the fact that I - in a pragmatic way - studied the Qur'an critically and analytically, examining it verse by verse. If I hadn't divided them into categories and indices for this purpose, the veil would have remained over my eyes. So what do you say about the faithful who pay no attention to this!? Don't you see that large number of Muslim thinkers and university professors who are no less ardent in their conviction in the fairytale of the Miraculous Nature of the Qur'an than any ordinary person? They are not in a position to dissect the Qur'an and tear open the shrouds that envelope it. No, they are not capable of doing that.

    Reading (the Qur'an) is of two types: Firstly there is devotional reading that is blind to flaws that the eye almost pops out at, due to their contradicting what is reasonable and acceptable. If there is any deep thinking in this type of reading, then it is the deep thinking of defense and justification that sees in the verse the wisdom of the ages. Secondly there is investigative, critical and analytical reading that exposes flaws and puts our hands on that which the faithful do not want to see or acknowledge and for that reason they try to dodge and maneuver to conceal its defects with all kinds of excuses, pretexts and justifications! Perhaps this book can bring about within them - or within some of them at least - a painful jolt. For there is a new form of therapy, which is therapy through shocks!

    4. Here is another verse for you that is similar to the previous verse in weakness and feebleness even though understanding it is not difficult. So let your eyes peruse it in the hope that you may be more skilled linguistically and more eloquently capable than I. But distance yourself from the blessed exegetes who do not find any flaw nor fault in it. There's no harm in consulting the books of Tafseer to a degree. In fact you should consult them, so long as it's with extreme caution:

    "It is He Who sends down water from the skies, then We bring forth with it buds of every kind, then we bring forth from it green (foliage) from which We bring forth grain piled up." (6:99)

    Would that I knew if you notice anything odd when you hear this verse? This verse contains two divine secrets - or two examples of exemplary eloquence, if you will. The eloquence of "Iltifaat" (sudden transition of pronoun) "It is He Who sends down water from the skies, then We bring forth...", that is the first, while the second is repetition of the the verb "bring forth" three times. A repetition that tears at the ear and makes it feel uneasy and uncomfortable - unless uneasiness and discomfort are amongst the signs of Miraculousness! Had Ibn Muqaffa' or al-Jahiz or others from amongst the princes of eloquence fallen to such depths of feebleness they would have ripped them apart and heaped upon them criticism and vitriol. But what can one do when polishing, repetition and devotional recitation has bequeathed to the faithful dullness of taste and inability to sense the jarring.

    * From a line of poetry by al-Mutanabbi - it means he has been struck by so many arrows (of misfortune and sorrow) that the ones that strike him now have no place to pierce and are just hitting the ones already there. In other words he can no-longer defend himself, nor cares.

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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1111 - September 04, 2010, 09:21 AM

    Quote
    3. "Whoso disbelieves in Allah after his belief save him who is forced thereto and whose heart is content with the Faith but whoso opens (his) breast to disbelief on them is wrath from Allah and for them a mighty punishment." (16:106)

    I implore you by all you hold dear: Did you understand anything of that?

    tbh there's loads of stuff like that in the Quran, which sends your brain in a spin if you even attempt to try & understand it.

    Perhaps it was done on purpose so nobody ever read the scriptures, despite them being supposedly from God.  Well it worked didnt it  Wink

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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1112 - September 05, 2010, 08:38 AM

    but the author doesn't exist -_-" no one knows him. Also, there's no person with this name who studied in al azhar and had this life story. I read an article about this.

    Any ideas what the real story is?
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1113 - September 05, 2010, 08:45 AM

    but the author doesn't exist -_-" no one knows him. Also, there's no person with this name who studied in al azhar and had this life story. I read an article about this.

    Any ideas what the real story is?


    Can you link me to this article - I would like to read it/  thnkyu

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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1114 - September 05, 2010, 10:05 AM

    http://ibrahim-awad9.maktoobblog.com/1567393/عباس-عبد-النور-محنته-مع-الإسلام-أم-محنت/

  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1115 - September 05, 2010, 10:40 AM

    Thanks, I cant read arabic but used google translate to translate it.

    if anyone else is interested to read it in English, then here it is in 2 parts because of character limit (this guy sure must have taken it seriously!)

    Quote
    Abbas Abd al-Nur:
    Ordeal with the Koran
    Or with his mind?
    D. Ibrahim Awad
    Ibrahim_awad9@yahoo.com
    http://awad.phpnet.us/

    Suddenly and unexpectedly hit in the sites and forums Muhajaria Christian Book name: "my plight with the Koran" is printed on its cover that it is published in Damanhur years old in 2004 and author Dr. Abbas, an Egyptian named Abdel Nur and that the books banned from circulation. The tone of joy and schadenfreude clear but stark in those forums and sites on the grounds that the book Muslim scholar turned to Islam and declared acquitted him and his kufr tags, taking attacking and attacking the book that came down to His Prophet, stressing that it did not come down from heaven, and there is no God does not grieve. I got the book right now on two and began to read it a little bit on some days of Ramadan, despite some busy work of major importance. I blog what I suggest to the observations in the book whenever I read something called that.

    The first thing for me from these observations is: Is there a real person on behalf of Abbas Abdel Nour? Where is it? And what people know him in Egypt, and Damanhur in particular, as the city where he lived and his family live by generation after generation, graduated senior religious scholars and sheikhs roads? Jcmt have a friend of mine to explore this matter contact with some acquaintances in Damanhur so they deny that the family in their city this title or a person with these qualities. Indeed, the rights of puzzled wonder: Is the title of "Abdel Nour" is common among Egyptian Muslims? I have stressed my mind and I started to squeeze me for I can remember the people I know or have heard it or read about bearing this title was not possible to me, despite the great effort had been made. And the same answer I heard from each of the polled on that subject. All we were able to disaster incidents in mind is the title of "Abu Nour," "The Abdel-Nour," Both A and both.

    Moreover, the promoters of the book, along with writer introduction, recall the author's collections of poetry and books of philosophy and religion and the interpretation of the Koran, and they say to the effect that he was an orator Msqa, which meant that he was famous long-known, how missed our world and a poet and preacher and author in this way? We do not remember the floor of the well-known employers of the people of Damanhur d only. Abdul Wahab Messeri, as well as Abdel Muti Messeri, who was the owner of a cafe there, and who have not read him only one book. If Abbas Abd al-Nur's all those books and poems, and was outspoken preachers adults, and was above the holder of a doctorate in philosophy from Paris, how Jhlnah and ignorance of others across the country and referred to this as reprehensible? Oulu Abdel Nour real person, not a fake as people say everything written about him by the author of the book's introduction and the book is about the same in degree, we ignore Okna and ignored by all people to this degree? See where these books and government offices, established Abbas Alhlas? Why did not we hear something from them?

    The mention of hospice, which provided the writer says that Abbas Mahtas was director of the one in Damanhur, is there really a hospice in Damanhur? Where is it then? It was there one or more hospice in Cairo, but we have not heard of the existence of Tkaya in the capital of the lake. I have read for the Egyptian artist Fine Esmat Daustashy for hospice in Cairo thought once to turn to Islamic Group (which had a relationship with his father) to live away from the family home in Alexandria, fleeing from his mother, which had been tightening Brsome and caused her fatigue in the cleaning Toeschh of Furniture, home, and how transportation rode until he reached the city of Damanhur, where began to fear supplement the project, there was also returned a few of bills that remain with him to Alexandria without reference to the hospice's alleged he writes those memories, but without notifying the mere sight of gravity.

    This text is written by the painter known for this Modoafy book: "memories of dreams old": "Before, almost three years (ie in 1959) had packed a bag Scouting Bmtalqati, I took the Cairo-Alexandria Agricultural goal for me on my feet, which decided to Jilt family and the cities and the whole world and retire in Altkipbakcanivep Bjblaljyoshi and walking clothes Scouting that protect me from the curiosity of others because I did not have enough men to ride the train, walk to Cairo on his way to hospice in the cliffs to live there with the dervishes from the problems of my family, and that reminds my mother repeated to me because I am painted Fayalmenzl, Fitsch furniture they do not bear such things. I remember I walked a few kilometers until the car stopped the transfer of the boarded up entrance to the city of Damanhur Vodechlha with the night and take off Intabnielkhov ticket back to Alexandria with me from the little money Droushtealmbkr project delayed to another time has not come yet. "

    Not only that, but if there was such a hospice's alleged Damanhur is passed the matter over in silence and they had a hospice would in public life resembles, at least to some extent, like hospice, which was in Cairo on what it depicts our Registry Daustashy himself when he visited in the early sixties of the last century, accompanied by his father: "It was a costume dervishes composed of Jelbabitosth wide belt was placed, which in the past some things, and possibly arms and stick Bakcanivep. and, above robes and belt cloth draped over the center wear the mantle of light cotton summer, and heavy wool winter, then wear Fez or turban Bakcanivep, a 12-sided polygonal number twelve imams in Shi'ism, and then placed around the neck collar of stone Amaocbh stone talc in the form of star twelve decimal is also, as I recall. Perhaps Altvasilbalsour more clearly, look where the clothes are light color white to gray. okay color images have appeared after I do not know the colors accurately. and I have to find pictures of Mlonplababa secret hospice Maghawry his clothes. and I remember that magazine, the "last hour" had his picture Faihyate daily Baltkip is wandering in the vegetable market or with guests. was celebrity daughters of the time, the hospice forum international figures is different: some of the kings and princes, and other tourists, Orientalists, and Njumalesinma, politics and society in Egypt. at that time in 1962, I was Alamrtsap ten-year-old full of life and movement. It is not my religion has matured, did not I Osaliala Friday prayers in a mosque with my father that Abu Abbas, did not dreamed to become royals, and Inkint fascinated by their lives, especially in hospice Maghawry legendary. "


    The author of the article "Damanhur" in the encyclopedia "wikipedia" monuments that characterizes the city of Damanhur Vuordha as follows: "Mosque of Repentance second mosque in Africa after the Mosque of Amr Ibn El-Aas, the Mosque of al-Habashi was built in the early twentieth century, an architectural masterpiece wonderful, and Opera Damanhur: built in the reign of King Fouad. renovated Opera House and the restoration to return to form the first beautiful, and the building of the municipal library: built in the reign of King Fouad, and a school building Damanhur military secondary: architectural masterpiece a wonderful built in the reign of King Fouad, and the building of Dar Ambulance: built during the reign King Fuad, the teaching hospital, and Bridge Flagah mobile. " As the reader can see, There is no reference to any hospice in the city oppressed with Abbas Alhlas. Nor did I find no reference to the hospice in the city of Damanhur site or anywhere else on the Almchaabak.
    He wrote Naguib Mahfouz hospice in most of the work nonfiction him, how did happen to talk about hospice Damanhur one of took that city in their work or who were children or had their strong relationship, Ktoviq-Hakim, who said he wrote his novel: " Diary of vice in rural areas "at a cafe writer Abdel Muti Elmessiri where, Muhammad Farid Abu Hadid, the" man of the people "or Abdul given Mosery in any of his books or Oqasis, or facilitated the elephant (who worked as a writer area Damanhur education, one of the founders Jmaipalodaba Damanhour) in Oomsarhyate any of his poems or stories, or d. Abd al-Wahhab Elmessiri in his autobiography, or Mohammed Sidqi Marxist writer in any of his stories, Khairy Shalaby or in the "gift of agency," for example?
    And shrewd Aldhiae is that the writer says that Abbas made Alhlas working "manager" of the hospice. God when the supervisor was Welteke called: "Administrator"? Are we in the Consumer Society? That such a supervisor but nicknamed the "chief hospice." Incidentally, there is the story of the early fifties were remnants of the century in a series of "Read" the Egyptian title "chief hospice" by Mohammed Abdo Azzam. "Sheikh" is not the "manager"! But God, who does not appear to him the will in spite of the author of the infidel who oppose Allaah and His Messenger to expose the thieves directors of this movie India's severe Vooukahm in the evil of their actions to commit this blunder and people know that it is not anywhere in the world for what is called "the perfect crime."
    Also signed by author presented at the disaster struck again scandalous, as was used for the expression of the "Ministry of Endowments" the words "Islamic Waqf" (p. 5), which does not know the Egyptians, they say: "The Ministry of Awqaf" no "to the Department of Awqaf," as well as we in Egypt not to describe as "Islamic" because there is no us in the government but an Islamic Waqf. It is known that non-Egyptian Arabs use the term "cycle" refers to the government's interests. This means that the author made was not Egyptian. This reminds me of what erupted in the sixties of last century on a policy document stating the name of the "Soviet Union" a thousand after AZ (sic: Soviet), was this evidence that it is fabricated in Beirut and not issued by Egypt because in Egypt we write Biaeen the reversal in Lebanon, as write them a thousand after AZ. Look, dear reader how to be such micronized summer in these serious cases. Which is similar to where we are now. Not only that, they called Abbas bin Nisnas liquorice: "The water mites" (p. 262), according to our brothers in Syria, for example, is what you do not find in Egypt at all. The mention of licorice is my friend, scholars of Syria was working with us in the Umm Al Qura University in Saudi Arabia, and whenever I visited him at his home said to me: What do you think of that brought you "licorice"? Because he knows how much I loved the Licorice!


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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1116 - September 05, 2010, 10:41 AM


    Quote
    But I do not imagine that the book has been printed in Egypt at all, let alone Damanhour small town that if the book had been reprinted by the known character on the spot and was a scandal. But I imagine that the writer is not Egyptian, and probably not a Muslim, despite all the verses and Hadiths, which discussed and cited. So that such citations are not difficult. It is perhaps necessary, to the significant meaningful, to draw the attention to the way forward by the writer to places Quranic verses, which was based in most cases mentioned Sura number norm of the Orientalists and missionaries, not its name, and in rare instances in which name the Sura see followed by a remembrance of her own. Not far of the book "The True Furqan", which is more than a fabricated Christian Palestinian Koranic terms of revenue and imitation and replication. There Abdullah Arab, translator provided by the cradle of the British lawyer who was born at the end of the seventeenth century: George Sale (or Zarzis Wissal) for the English translation of the Holy Quran. I have formulated called: Abdullah Arab Barabiyp solid Ojas or Arab sheikh of Azahari Alozahrp Almodgkin Moreover, he is a Christian right of the Christians in the Levant imagine.
     Can you also believe that a man goes to Paris and get a PhD in philosophy and then return in high spirits at a mosque preacher, like any ordinary person who does not have PhD? And ridiculous to claim that the author submitted the Egyptian Ministry of Awqaf is sent to the capital Afrencs in scholarship for a doctorate in philosophy. See what is the relationship of Awqaf philosophy? But what relationship Mahtas Abbas, he did not graduate flower, but he has obtained a Bachelor of Arts from the University College Fouad? It is to say loudly that he had left by the Faculty of Theology, in his third year to the Faculty of Arts. Is this possible?
    The non-Alklten Mtnazertin so may prevent the student papers from one to the other, as well as the origins of religion, a flower, while the Arts of the University of King Fuad, Valthoil their permission is not possible. However, the author does not distinguish between the elbow and Buah, and thought that read "Kaorca" Mokhtmon on Agafahm like him! Disappointment upon you, O Abu Alabapit, O descendant of monkeys, piglets! But is there a man can lahd he is the chief had exceeded eighty, and after that was devout believer longevity? See also says that after the death of his father has become "the scientists of the city." Is there something in the Egyptian cities named: "Scholars of the city"? Yes, there were in Cairo, "the senior scientists," but did not hear the "City Scholars" This is only now.

    Then look at the composition of each character in the title of the book In the name of the author! Since when is the Egyptian titles of their books this way, and in particular that the title is totally devoid of any word you need to form? It is significant in this context that the promoters of the writers and publishers in the positions they are criminals of Christians abroad who hope to wake up from their delusion and lack of literature before it comes on does not work when Europe or America, says the infidel when he sees the devil disown him and let him face his fate Black alone, and beaten with a shoe without hide the creature to its rescue: "I wish I were dust", as well as they are the only ones who knew the issuance of the book, that they put in their positions and their forums, then known by Muslims.

    It is known that the habit of writing books attacking Islam anonymously (as a book, "Tess Azazel," the father of Utah'm Alabitp, a name that does not exist, and the book "a frank dialogue about Islam," Sheikh alleged ass Mohammad Najjar, and "Comparison of Christianity and Islam," Sheikh Maqdisi, who does not exists only in the delusions of Almtaiss retarded from Christians abroad, and the book "Is the Qur'an infallible?", by: Abdullah Redeemer, He is also the name of the hyped up, and my book "The True Furqan" and "Holy People", which were issued without being on the cover of any of them the name of the author). May attach to those books the names of the Muslim does not mean anything (like a book, which includes the Arabic translation of the introduction, which was issued by George Sale translated the Qur'an into English, which attribute to Abdullah the Arab guest home Alifranjip as they said on the cover), and I always argue that Sheikh Doe or Islamic Group leader, publicity was the safest. It is in this way also is known that many of the protesters at the site of atheism "unaffiliated Arabs" are in fact Christians make ridiculous to pretend that the opportunity to undermine Islam twisted park outside their own way, despite this. Also striking that the Zakaria quotes in his book so much that what could be, but what must be, to return it to the other, and when the reference is used as an intermediary rather than by reference to the source or reference that was quoted Abbas Abdel Nour. This is important information that will help in detecting the authority that issued the book, though it does not require more after all that has been stated here from the information and evidence.

    Finally, it is usually some of the infidels of old writing books and attributing them to others and so be saved from liability and watching on the full costs of a trial are rubbing their hands with joy what they see without being to blame or harm and without knowing the people around them that they are the owners of all the hullabaloo. In this pleasure in it. In the chapter held by. Abdel Rahman Badawi, Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi (Muslim doctor famous accused of atheism true or hero) in his book: "From the History of Atheism in Islam," a reference to some atheists Arabs in the age of Abbasi who wrote books kufr and attributed to the scholars of the Greeks (p. 256 of the i 2 / Dar Sina Publishing / 1993).

    This, and when about to reply and quote from the hands of the reader and propaganda found a book in some locations Abbas says that he was Ostamajamaia. This is another lie of lies Odhart previous, or otherwise at any university you see he was a professor that shameless liar who Hereafter God? As well as the propaganda says that the version on the site is the other edition of the book is banned from trading in the Arab and Islamic countries. The question now is: If the book was banned from circulation and distribution in the country of all Muslim not Tabatm him a new edition, and you will not be able distribution, and in particular that you have Internet Tnscherouna the widest No you can have a ten Maer if Tabatamoh print paper? This is further proof that everything about this book is a lie.

    And to the reader now call mentioned convey entirety as found at the site referred to it: "The Book of my plight with the Koran and with God in the Quran - the second edition, which is an improved version too. Abasabdalnormen Born in Damanhur, a Sunni doctrine. Jurist. Director of hospice. Has spent sixty years of Arab Muslim vomiting, and the imam of a mosque, a brilliant orator and writer, poet and interpreter of the Koran, and then publish his book: "tribulation with the Koran", and Kafr when he was eighty years old. His book is the most dangerous books of atheism. joined the Faculty of theology in an Al-Azhar. and grant assistance from the Islamic Waqf , go to the University of Sorbonne in Paris to attend a PhD in Philosophy of Science, and managed to philosophy and science together. When he returned to his hometown has become an imam and preacher in one of the mosques, and had the Dreadlocked, Ncohm on good faith and worship, as a university professor, and author of books, philosophical and scientific many., but his intellectual were not without concern and his faith without doubt. It was his mind, raises thorny issues, and faith is sufficient answer to every dilemma. conflict of science and faith began to Andabaspakra, the conflict have not had the opportunity to present publicly. even out of the underground since its inception, when it came to this reduction of violence as expressed in this book that rare. "

    By the way, did not tell us how the author provided Twelfth reached manuscript as long as Abbas Abdul FLA have died. This is another gap of the many glaring gaps. And how you see the new edition has been improved, the author has been decimated and remained in a sixty shrewd? Is it one has the right to dispose of the book improves when the owner died, and add or delete it? It gave him this right? This slip of the tongue slip, which reveals that the author is still alive, and then look at his idea and improve it Tnqejeh the tradition of authors with new editions of their book. Then what was the position of his wife and children after him is heresy and wrote this book? And they are supposed known, at least: according to the people's knowledge of Abbas bin Nisnas as Sheikh method and the imam of a mosque, orator and author of a remarkable and a university professor, poet and retribution, and el pins, combs and Vlayat and candy, and says: Hat? Why silent author provided Bakash them did not come about them, even one word? There is a blackout on this issue, a serious gap added to the many holes in the past and future.

    If the jinn out of the book to the home the first thing we notice that Abbas mentioned the confessional that he would now sit on a chair to recognize and prefer to speak, his heart to us, quite frankly, this slip of the tongue scandalous It was not Muslims bearings confession, such a man, "a devout already! " Can not be notified him of the idea of confessional at all. Like that saying: "Blessed are the Balla, theirs is the kingdom of heaven" (p. 32), is subject to the impact of evangelical clear. Likewise, also confirmed that "religion is for Allah, and repatriation of all" (p. 50), it is the Christians, the Copts were fined and the fundamentalist always to distract the Muslims from Islam, but now they declare openly and shameless that Muslims are not Egyptians, but Arabs and came to the land of Egypt from the peninsula Arab and should go back where they came from and let them carry sentences as they enjoy good cheer, as the Egyptians are the only truly and sincerely. It is in this valley as well as margin can be read page-ninth session of the description of the seven missionary stupid like taken the conscience of the combined return to God in the Koran evidence on the health of the Trinity as "one of the missionaries are smart." This is a serious slip of the tongue was significant. And it also says (p. 124): "But to whom are you preaching, Mr. David?", A phrase written with distinction.

    There is also emphasized (p. 207) that the Koran is not in a single level of quality, elegance and perfection, but "the wheat, the weeds", ie good and bad. And weeds is what he calls the Assembly: "Aldharij" and Enqgunh of wheat and throwing him. This example is located in chapter XII of the Gospel of Matthew, for in it we read: "24 gave them (ie, Jesus peace be upon him) is another example, saying:« is the kingdom of the heavens a man sowed good seed in his field. 25, and while people slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat and went away.


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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1117 - September 05, 2010, 10:51 AM

    but the author doesn't exist -_-" no one knows him. Also, there's no person with this name who studied in al azhar and had this life story. I read an article about this.

    Any ideas what the real story is?



    First of all, does it really matters if he existed or not? The Quran exists, and all the faults and descripancies are there to test for your self. Would you think that a person who talks so frankly and bluntly about the Quran would reveal his real name? I dont think so.

    Quote
    Suddenly and unexpectedly hit in the sites and forums Muhajaria Christian Book name: "my plight with the Koran" is printed on its cover that it is published in Damanhur years old in 2004 and author Dr. Abbas, an Egyptian named Abdel Nur and that the books banned from circulation.


    Christian book? So if any one says something that hurts the Muslims, has to be christian with an agenda?

    When I first got the book I looked for the author online and did a quick research on its possible author. But after reading few chapters, I stoped doing that and got on with reading it becasue everything he\she said in the book, turned out to be true and I was amazed.

    I really dont mind if the author was a hardcore Muslim-hater jewish guy! It still told the truth!

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1118 - September 05, 2010, 03:44 PM

    First of all, does it really matters if he existed or not? The Quran exists, and all the faults and descripancies are there to test for your self. Would you think that a person who talks so frankly and bluntly about the Quran would reveal his real name? I dont think so.

    Christian book? So if any one says something that hurts the Muslims, has to be christian with an agenda?

    When I first got the book I looked for the author online and did a quick research on its possible author. But after reading few chapters, I stoped doing that and got on with reading it becasue everything he\she said in the book, turned out to be true and I was amazed.

    I really dont mind if the author was a hardcore Muslim-hater jewish guy! It still told the truth!


    I was raised to think that there is an anti-muslim agenda everywhere. I can't get it out of my system so easily. Whenever I read something like this, I immediately think of a kaffir who knows that Islam is right and wants do defeat God b/c he's a devil companion T_T

    It's so irrational to think this way I know, but it would still be weird that someone would create a chatacter and write a book like this one. Maybe there really is an agenda?

    I got off the point. I think that if anyone finds something wrong in the Quran and points it out, than the Quran is not that genuine after all :S
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1119 - September 05, 2010, 03:50 PM

    I was raised to think that there is an anti-muslim agenda everywhere. I can't get it out of my system so easily. Whenever I read something like this, I immediately think of a kaffir who knows that Islam is right and wants do defeat God b/c he's a devil companion T_T

    It's so irrational to think this way I know, but it would still be weird that someone would create a chatacter and write a book like this one. Maybe there really is an agenda?

    I doubt it - had it been a xian/Jew then they might even have published it.  The fact that this book is cloaked in secrecy lends to the fact the writer knew there was a death sentence for apostacy or to worried about being outcast from his own community.  Also its rare to find somebody reach such a scholarly level just out of interest in defeating Islam, he knows more about Islam than Hassan!

    And finally what difference does it make anyway. Its the facts that count, regardless of the motives (which I suspect are genuine) of the author

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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1120 - September 05, 2010, 03:52 PM

    Think about it, why would god need some one else to defend his book? If he is an All-powerful, All-mighty super being, he could send down a huge rock tablet, that scientists can easily identify as an out-of-this world, with the Qurarn inscriptions on it. He can send that every several hundreds of years. Right? Unless he does not want us to know he exists!  whistling2




    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1121 - September 06, 2010, 03:24 PM

    I just read through Chapter 2. If I wanted to suggest some corrections - spelling, grammar and a few re-wordings, should I use this thread or the actual translation thread?

    BTW this is great stuff.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1122 - September 06, 2010, 03:27 PM

    You'd better use this.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1123 - September 06, 2010, 03:30 PM

    Think about it, why would god need some one else to defend his book? If he is an All-powerful, All-mighty super being, he could send down a huge rock tablet, that scientists can easily identify as an out-of-this world, with the Qurarn inscriptions on it. He can send that every several hundreds of years. Right? Unless he does not want us to know he exists!  whistling2

     what? do you want everyone to go to heaven?

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1124 - September 06, 2010, 03:35 PM

    a.ghazali: Use this form: PatchPad
    That's exactly why I coded this thing.

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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1125 - September 06, 2010, 03:43 PM

    OK thanks. I'll update later when I get home from work.

    But when I make the changes will it replace what is currently there? Or is there someone responsible who needs to review what is being suggested before users start updating the file?

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1126 - September 06, 2010, 03:53 PM

    I will review the changes. The system isn't perfect, but it's certainly a much better method than having the user explain where exactly the changes should be made.

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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1127 - September 07, 2010, 01:09 PM

    I received your first patch. Thanks for that, but you weren't really supposed to join all the lines together. That makes it more difficult for me to see what's been changed. Keep this in mind the next time.

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1128 - September 07, 2010, 02:54 PM

    Our beloved Hassan says:
    Quote
    btw - the verse [27:65-66] really needs to be read in Arabic to see the full extent of its horrendously bad construction.

    It's amazing how poorly worded it is!

    Even more amazing that for years I read the Qur'an and never stopped to think about how bad some of these verses are!

    Poor Muslims - they really are blind to what's right in front of their noses.

    btw - you can post the above if you want.

    Also I saw whyabadi's comments and totally understand what he's saying, but frankly I couldn't care less if Abu Jahl wrote this book - it's absolutely spot on!

    Mind you if it was ever published, you can be sure that the authors identity would be the main source of attack by Muslims.


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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1129 - September 10, 2010, 05:55 PM

    OK, let's get organized and start translating it.

    How do you guys suggest doing it? As IsLame suggested, the best way is to do it is collectively.

    I guess we should use this thread to choose which page(s) to translate then report back, and others on the thread can make amendments.

    For example, if I choose the first page of the intro, I have to say so here, translate it, post my translation, then someone else can pick it up and make sure it sounds good.

    This is my attempt at translating the first paragraph of the intro:



    Just from the first paragraph you translated. I can see how much of emotional turmoil and enlightenment he must have underwent.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1130 - September 10, 2010, 06:10 PM

    Hey, this is unfair, why would wikiupload remove the book?  finmad as far as I can tell, it does not have copyright on it. It's good that Aziz you have it on our servers.

    Here is the link: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/docs/Mi7naty_Ma3a_Alquran.pdf


    I want to know that as well.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1131 - September 11, 2010, 08:59 PM

    Finally got around to update the PDF file.

    @a.ghazali: I applied the small changes you suggested, but I felt like I shouldn't accept the changes you made to the sentence structure of some paragraphs. I can't decide whether it's okay to change them like that. :-/

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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1132 - September 18, 2010, 04:56 PM

    On Page 3, I underlined some things that need revision.

    Quote
    There are two methods to understand the Qurʾān. They are: The
    Methodology of Transmission, that gives precedence to revelation
    over reason, the unquestioning acceptance of the veracity
    of the text and the inability of reason to comprehend its ultimate
    aims and objectives, and the Methodology of Reason that gives
    precedence to reason over revelation and its ability to comprehend
    the truth without need for reference to the text. For text
    is the last concern of the mind that is in itself free, independent
    and believing.


         For that reason I will employ, in this book, the Methodology
    of Reason, that Descartes established at the beginning of
    the modern age even though he did not always abide by it and
    in particular in understanding religious texts but manoeuvred,
    twsited and distorted the neck of Reason to stop the rot that
    fills Revelation and that which Revelation contains of garbage
    that diseases minds


    The first part should say "used to understand" or "for understanding".

    The second part should say "For text is the last thing concerning the mind that itself is free, and independent of belief".

    The third part should say "maneuvered, twisted, and distorted the neck of Reason to block the rot that fills Revelation and its garbage that diseases minds".

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1133 - September 18, 2010, 05:49 PM

    Thanks, Buttersnips. We use the British English way to spell words btw. Wink

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1134 - September 18, 2010, 06:06 PM

    i know arabic if you guys want help with something ....

    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1135 - September 18, 2010, 06:42 PM

    We use the British English way to spell words btw. Wink

    Oh, my bad.

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1136 - October 02, 2010, 08:28 PM

    I liked this bit:

    Thus the Earth alone required 6 days continuous work from  Him - Glorified is He - and it deserves such effort from Him - Most High is He - due to it's fundamental importance in the universe, as was the understanding of people in ancient times. Why not? Since it is the centre of the universe and it is its beating heart. As for the remainder of creation - they are trivial things: a sun, a moon and seven heavens decorated with a number of stars so that people can use them when traveling by land or sea. Exactly two days is quite enough for all that...

    The exegetes (Mufassirun) were confused when it came to understanding these verses that extended the number of days for the creation into eight days, and how to reconcile them with all the other verses that specified six days only. So they said indeed the four days in which Allah completed the creation of the Earth includes the first two days in which Allah created the Earth. A neat solution no doubt. But if that's correct then doesn't it show clearly and plainly the weakness of the Qur'an which could surely use wording that would be much clearer and eloquent, yet fell short of that and into weakness and ambiguity - especially since clarity is supposed to be an inseparable attribute of the Qur'an repeated over and over again on almost every page, "In a clear Arabic language"?!
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1137 - October 03, 2010, 02:15 PM

    Each time I read the author of this book I am scanning every word to try and get a 'feel' of who he is and his personality.

    One thing I feel quite confident about is that he is not a Christian. His writing belies a disbelief in all the Abrahamic myths without any subconscious protectiveness towards Christianity - which is what I might expect if he had been a Christian. Even if he was hiding it - there would be some clues and I only see the opposite.

    Of course I could be wrong - but that's my gut feeling.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1138 - October 03, 2010, 02:19 PM

    from your feeling of how he has written so far, would you guess he's a pantheist, deist or atheist?

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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1139 - October 03, 2010, 02:22 PM

    from your feeling of how he has written so far, would you guess he's a pantheist, deist or atheist?


    Maybe atheist/agnostic - but imho he was a Muslim once.
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