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Theme Changer

 Topic: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"

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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1170 - October 11, 2010, 06:35 AM
    The irony being that on the Last Day there is definite proof. But by then it's too late, you should have all believed in the words of a 7th century book. Fools!
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1171 - October 12, 2010, 10:45 PM
    Quote
    So if Allah actually means what he says in the Qur'an, then why did he stop doing things in this way/method when it came to the age of recorded history?


    This one occurred to me too. Although, I thought of it as applying to Allah's sending prophets during one period of history, and then desisting from doing so after sending Muhammad. Seems like a fairly obvious change in the method of Allah.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1172 - November 27, 2010, 01:33 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on October 03, 2010, 10:08 PM
    It's also interesting that our tiny and insignificant planet took 66% of God's time and effort while the rest of the universe only took 34% of his time and effort.

    It almost makes one think that God thought Earth was the center and most significant item in the universe and was unaware of how vast and complicated the universe really is.

    If I wasn't such a fervent believer with unwavering faith that the Qur'an is God's word - I might think that God had the same limited understanding as most human beings at that time.

    Wink  

    That is a great insight dear Hassan ., but how did you get those numbers   "66%  and 34% "?  is that from Quran??

    with best wishes
    yeeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1173 - November 27, 2010, 02:15 PM
    Yeez,

    It took Allah 4 days out of the total 6 days of creation to create the earth. If you put that into percentages, it works out that it took 66% (2 thirds) of this time to create the earth, and the remaining percentage (34% or 1 third) to create the heavens.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1174 - November 27, 2010, 02:36 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on November 27, 2010, 02:15 PM
    Yeez,

    It took Allah 4 days out of the total 6 days of creation to create the earth. If you put that into percentages, it works out that it took 66% (2 thirds) of this time to create the earth, and the remaining percentage (34% or 1 third) to create the heavens.

    Oh!., I see that is coming from that 6 day creation., But I would NOT give the credit  for that  6-day creation to Quran and Islam,   but to Bible and Christianity.

    I was thinking slightly differently, and under the impression  that some one might have gone through all verses of Quran and that  number is 6239., Out of that 66% of them are related to the earth and  34% are for the rest of the Universe...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1175 - November 27, 2010, 02:57 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on November 27, 2010, 02:36 PM
    Oh!., I see that is coming from that 6 day creation., But I would NOT give the credit  for that  6-day creation to Quran and Islam,   but to Bible and Christianity.

    I was thinking slightly differently, and under the impression  that some one might have gone through all verses of Quran and that  number is 6239., Out of that 66% of them are related to the earth and  34% are for the rest of the Universe...



    Well, it's more the Bible and Judaism.  Tongue

    Interesting subject you allude to. Did you know that the number of verses in the Qur'an is disputed? Surely you did, but it's interesting nonetheless.

    And I've never heard of any Muslim trying to claim such a miracle. I don't think it'd be possible at all since most of the verses of the Qur'an neither talk about the heavens or the earth.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1176 - November 27, 2010, 03:05 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on November 27, 2010, 02:57 PM
    Well, it's more the Bible and Judaism.  Tongue

     then let us not blame islam/Quran for that six day creation.,  Blame juice/Christians/ OT/NT all that ., At least on this   some blame should go to the earlier Abarahmic religions..    Cheesy Cheesy
    Quote
    Interesting subject you allude to. Did you know that the number of verses in the Qur'an is disputed? Surely you did, but it's interesting nonetheless.

    Well in that number "6239".,  I excluded unnumbered  112  Basmalahs and some other one letter silly words like "Alif..lam..damn.. faq'of".,     other  wise I think total is   6346

    Quote
    And I've never heard of any Muslim trying to claim such a miracle. I don't think it'd be possible at all since most of the verses of the Qur'an neither talk about the heavens or the earth.

    That is a good point., but Quran does talk lot about earthly things if not earth.,.   So may be it is like 95% earthy stuff and 5% rest of the universe..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1177 - November 27, 2010, 03:59 PM
    @Yeezevee

    Quote
    Well in that number "6239".,  I excluded unnumbered  112  Basmalahs and some other one letter silly words like "Alif..lam..damn.. faq'of".,     other  wise I think total is   6346


    Haha. Well, regardless of the Bismillahs or the muqatta'aat, the number of verses is still disputed. Here's some examples:

    From Tafsir al-Jalalayn:

    Surah 8: It has 85, 86, or 87 ayat.
    Surah 7: It has 205 or 206 ayat.
    Surah 3: It has 199 or 200 ayat.
    Surah 13: It has 43, 45 or 46 ayat.
    Surah 14:  It has 52, 54 or 55 ayat.
    Surah 23: It has  118 or 119 ayat.
    Surah 24: It has 62 or 64 ayat.

    From Tafsir Qurtubi:

    As for the number of ayat in the first Madinan copy of the Qur'an, Muhammad Ibn 'Isa said, "The number of ayat of the Qur'an in the first Madinan copy was six thousand." Abu 'Amr said, "It is the number related by the people of Kufah from the people of Madina, and they did not name anyone specifically on whom they relied in that."
    As for the Madinan copy, according to Isma'il Ibn Ja'far, it has six thousand two hundred and fourteen (6214) ayat. Al-Fadl said, "The number of ayat in the Qur'an according to the Makkans was six thousand two hundred and nineteen (6219). That is the number related by Salim and al-Kasa'i from Hamza. Al-Kasa'i attributed it to 'Ali." Muhammad said, "The number of ayat in the Qur'an according to the Basrans was six thousand two hundred and four (6204), which is the number that their Salaf passed down. As for the number of the people of Syria, Yahya Ibn al-Harith al-Dhamari said that it was six thousand two hundred and twenty six (6226). One transmission has six thousand two hundred and twenty five (6225)." Ibn Dhakwan said, "I think that Yahya did not count the Basmala."

    Vol. 1 pp. 63-64

    And Tafsir Ibn Kathir:

    As for the number of Holy Verses in the Qur'an, they are over six thousand, but there is a difference among the people about the exact number. Some say that they are no more than this number, and others raise this number by two hundred or four hundred more. It is said that they are six thousand two hundred and fourteen, or nineteen, twenty five, twenty six or thirty six Verses, as shown by Abu 'Amr al-Dani in his book, Al-Bayan.

    Vol. 1 p. 17
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1178 - November 27, 2010, 04:07 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on November 27, 2010, 03:59 PM
    @Yeezevee

    Haha. Well, regardless of the Bismillahs or the muqatta'aat, the number of verses is still disputed. Here's some examples:

    From Tafsir al-Jalalayn:

    Surah 8: It has 85, 86, or 87 ayat.
    Surah 7: It has 205 or 206 ayat.
    Surah 3: It has 199 or 200 ayat.
    Surah 13: It has 43, 45 or 46 ayat.
    Surah 14:  It has 52, 54 or 55 ayat.
    Surah 23: It has  118 or 119 ayat.
    Surah 24: It has 62 or 64 ayat.

    From Tafsir Qurtubi:

    (6219). 
    (6204),
     (6226).
    (6225).

    Hmm., you are giving me more ammo to beat those guys at  19ers org but i am sure Edip Yuksel   http://www.yuksel.org/e/books/reformer.htm   will come up with some explanation..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1179 - November 27, 2010, 04:25 PM
    I don't know how they can, as the people who translated my copy of Tafsir al-Qurtubi say:

    (Talking about the use of the 'Warsh' reading used in Tafsir al-Qurtubi)

    It also means that the ayat numbering will not be exactly the same as that used in texts and translations based on the 'Hafs' reading. It should be noted in this regard that there is, in fact, no particular numbering of the ayats which is absolutely definitive, and it even varies in different printings of the 'Warsh' version, as readers will discover when they read al-Qurtubi's introduction. -- Preface, xvii

    So, therefore, the ayat numbering and even the number of verses of many of the Surahs is, in fact, entirely disputable. Al-Qurtubi even gives the example of some Tabi'een who thought that the Bismillah of al-Fatihah was not even a verse of it, and that 'those with whom you are pleased' was a verse by itself.

    So you see, different readings have different verse numbering. My copy of Tafsir-e-Usmani also has different numbering from the 'standard' version.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1180 - November 27, 2010, 04:33 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on November 27, 2010, 04:25 PM
    I don't know how they can, as the people who translated my copy of Tafsir al-Qurtubi say:

    (Talking about the use of the 'Warsh' reading used in Tafsir al-Qurtubi)

    It also means that the ayat numbering will not be exactly the same as that used in texts and translations based on the 'Hafs' reading. It should be noted in this regard that there is, in fact, no particular numbering of the ayats which is absolutely definitive, and it even varies in different printings of the 'Warsh' version, as readers will discover when they read al-Qurtubi's introduction. -- Preface, xvii

    So, therefore, the ayat numbering and even the number of verses of many of the Surahs is, in fact, entirely disputable. Al-Qurtubi even gives the example of some Tabi'een who thought that the Bismillah of al-Fatihah was not even a verse of it, and that 'those with whom you are pleased' was a verse by itself.

    So you see, different readings have different verse numbering. My copy of Tafsir-e-Usmani also has different numbering from the 'standard' version.

      well they say "the translation you use is NOT GOOD"  and not numbered properly.,

    They use  Dr. Rashad Khalifa, Ph.D.   translation http://www.submission.org/Q-T.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6KziKLte5s

    Off course the guy was stabbed to death in Arizona...


    By A. L. Harb
    Quote
    Islam is an evil religion
    It encourages strife and division
    The more one adheres
    To its fables and fears
    The greater ones held in derision

    There once was a prophet quite naughty
    Who had his best dreams on the potty
    One day as he squat
    he had a deep thought
    “Wow, is that little Ayesha a hotty”

    Islam is a stupid religion
    Makes no sense, not even a smidgen
    Why do Muslims comply
    with a faith’s that’s a lie
    Must have brains the size of a pigeon

    There once was a prophet from Mecca
    known far and wide as a Lecha
    He wed a girl Baby
    In hopes that just maybe
    She’d play with his flaccid old Pecca

    The Muslims are governed by clerics
    Who are known for their wild hysterics
    As they rant and they scream
    Bout the Jews in their dreams
    They turn their flock into hateful barbarics

     

    with best
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1181 - November 27, 2010, 06:24 PM
    btw I am working on a few other projects right now so this is on the shelf for now.

    But will get back to it when I'm finished with the others stuff.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1182 - May 22, 2011, 10:24 PM
    Chapter 4 - The Miraculous Nature of the Qurʾān (cont...)

    Part 9. Contradiction is a Prominent Feature of the Qurʾān. (Aziz please note you will need to edit the title listed in the contents.)

    Would that the issues with the Qur'an went no further than the maladies we've mentioned, but there are other maladies even more serious. Perhaps the most important of these are the blatant contradictions. Yes, indeed the Qur'an is full of a variety of contradictions that it is not possible to keep quiet about it. Indeed contradiction is a prominent feature of the Qur'an.

    Below are some verses that combine ambiguity with contraction:

    1. "The month of Ramadan, in which the Qur'an was revealed." (2:185) But it is well known that the Qur'an came down piecemeal, spread out in installments and at different times and not as a single entity. So what is the meaning of the Qur'an being revealed in Ramadan, then? There is no solution to this contradiction except through a fairy tale. So the Qur'an was first on the "Preserved Tablet" (which came down as a whole in Ramadan) and from the "Preserved Tablet" it came down piecemeal to the lower heaven. Thus the problem is solved with a stroke of the pen.

    2. But on which day in Ramadan did the Qur'an come down? "Indeed we revealed it on the Night of Power." (1:97) As though the initial ambiguity is not enough and so it is followed it with more ambiguity intensifying the ambiguity and mystery. So it specified the coming down of the Qur'an as being in the "Night of Power" which is itself a collection of fairy tales:

    "And what will tell you what is the Night of Power? The Night of Power is better than a thousand nights. In it come down the angels and the spirit with the permission of their Lord with every decree. Peace it is until the break of day." (97:5-6)

    Did you understand anything? So the ambiguity of the Qur'an cannot be understood by the believer except with more ambiguity! Can you blame the Mufassirun after that if they don't find any way to remove this ambiguity except through fairy tales? For in them is the escape from every ambiguity!! And how many stories have been related about the "Night of Power" and how many victories has God accomplished for his beloved servants during the "Night of Power"!!
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1183 - May 22, 2011, 10:25 PM
    Next bit (that's two today):

    Chapter 4 - The Miraculous Nature of the Qurʾān (cont...)

    Part 8 - Weakness of the Qurʾān (cont...)

    14. Here's another correction to the speech of God that the waffling prattlers undertook, while thinking that they are merely explaining it, (70: 40-41):

    "But nay! I swear by the Lord of the Easts and the Wests that We are certainly able,"

    "to substitute better than they and We are not to be beaten."( وما نحن بمسبوقين )

    (The Mufassirun say:) It means; "and We are not unable to do that." ( وما نحن بعاجزين )

    So if the Qur'an meant that, then why did it miss the mark and choose another phrase that means something different, one that's inappropriate and has no relation to it in any way? Why didn't it say "and We are not unable to do that."? Isn't that more eloquent and clear oh masters of eloquence? The truth is that the Mufassirun had no choice other than to use this word to rescue the verse. What a predicament! And how plentiful are these predicaments that the Qur'an places them in. That's if there isn't some 'profound wisdom' behind it, hidden from the Ancients and the Moderns, that the Lord of the Worlds has kept to himself.

    Is this truly the word of God? Is this what Man and Jinn were challenged to bring the like of?!! If the Qur'an was composed entirely of masterpieces it wouldn't be so bad, but the masterpieces are like broken links strewn in open space or oases dotted about a vast desert that has no beginning nor end.

    Furthermore, even if the Qur'an had been composed entirely of masterpieces the challenge still has no meaning, since masterpieces cannot be imitated. One can only bring literature that is better, worse or of a similar level, but it is impossible to bring the same as it. So what about if these masterpieces are like these that adorn the Qur'an? Indeed the work of Ibn Muqaffa' and al-Jahiz and Abu Hayyan al-Tawhidi (60) are on a higher level of quality and excellence - so can anyone bring the same as it? Especially if we remember that we don't find in the speech of any of these the level of confusion, dislocation, weakness and ambiguity that we find in the Qur'an?


    60. I was going to mention "al-Ma'arri" if he hadn't been ambiguous like the Qur'an, though he remains on a unique level of excellence and flawlessness.

    ******

    ( This completes Part 8. Next is Part 9 "Contradiction is the Distinguishing Feature of the Qurʾān" )
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1184 - May 22, 2011, 10:30 PM
    Was wondering what had happened to this, much gratitude  Afro
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1185 - August 13, 2011, 09:23 AM
    Too tired to go through all 50 pages. What ended up happening here? Did anyone decide to translate it?
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1186 - August 13, 2011, 09:23 AM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on May 22, 2011, 10:30 PM
    Was wondering what had happened to this, much gratitude  Afro


    LOL, didn't see that.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1187 - August 13, 2011, 10:18 AM
    Also, can anyone confirm that this guy really exists and is who he says he is? I couldn't find anything online except for the book and Muslim critiques claiming the writer isn't who he says he is.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1188 - August 13, 2011, 03:06 PM
    Quote from: harakaat on August 13, 2011, 09:23 AM
    Too tired to go through all 50 pages. What ended up happening here? Did anyone decide to translate it?


    Roughly a third has been translated - it can be found here:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/docs/My_Ordeal_With_The_Quran/My_Ordeal_With_The_Quran-en-latest.pdf
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1189 - August 13, 2011, 03:08 PM
    Quote from: harakaat on August 13, 2011, 10:18 AM
    Also, can anyone confirm that this guy really exists and is who he says he is? I couldn't find anything online except for the book and Muslim critiques claiming the writer isn't who he says he is.


    No-one knows who he is. The name Abbas Adul-Noor is undoubtedly not his real name.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1190 - August 21, 2011, 10:56 AM
    http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifications-about-islam/134302111-abbas-abdulnoor.html

    Did a quick google search, apparently it's all coptic Christians doing! Grin

    Quote
    yes i do think this to be a work of crazy christian liars as they have proved they always do in the form of "ex Muslims"


    Though post number #3 was a interesting read Tongue

    Quote
    The man in question supposedly authored the book "me7naty ma3 el Quran" translation "My trouble with the Quran."

    Dr. Ibrahim has great knwoledge of the tactics of missionaries and fabricated books that attempt to attack Islam. A few of the points that I recall briefly that he had identified about the man and his book are;

    1) Abbas abdul noor, the name abdul noor(a common name they refer to Jesus(pbuh) with) is common amongst christian coptics not muslims.

    2) He claims he was born in damanhour a city in egypt and that he was a famous professor of Islamic philosophy, yet according to Dr. Ibrahim Awad's knowledge no such individual exists, else he would be extremely famous and well known

    3) The book contains several linguistic usages that are common in lebanese publishing companies, not egyptian as the book claims.

    4) The author in several occasions quotes the christian gospels(in a positive way) to make sarcastic comments about destiny and Qadar.

    07:54 <harakaat>: you must be jema
    07:54 <harakaat>: considering how annoying you are
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1191 - August 21, 2011, 11:58 AM
    Yes I've heard these claims. Maybe he is - then again maybe he's not. It doesn't matter. What matters is; "Is the book right?" - And it is!

    It is an excellent book with many spot on points.

    It is inevitable that Muslims will attack the author and the fact he is unknown/could be a Christian. - It shows how important it is for us Ex-Muslims to make a public stand, so that it removes at least - that avenue from Muslims who will use any means to avoid facing criticism of Islam.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1192 - August 21, 2011, 04:05 PM
    I wonder what they mean by Lebanese vs. Egyptian editing practices. I did notice the typography was odd. Also, in Egyptian books sometimes they omit the dots from under a terminal yaa'. And yeah, what's with the hamzat qa63 being used everywhere? I've never seen that before, though I'm sure it's intentional and not just a mistake.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1193 - August 21, 2011, 04:17 PM
    Then again, it's worth noting that there's a very good chance the only publishing house willing to take on that book might very well be Christian. Doesn't mean the writer's Christian.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1194 - August 21, 2011, 04:20 PM
    The "Abdul Noor" thing reminds me of a conversion tactic I've read about, that Christian missionaries use to convert Muslims (apparently with dazzling success). They ask them about the 100th name of God, and why it has never been mentioned in Islam. When the Muslim says he doesn't know, the Christian smiles and says "It's Yasoo3 Smiley".

    Also, apparently they use Quranic verses extolling the virtues of Jesus, and other verses that state how Muhammad is an ordinary human, and imply that even the Quran alludes to Jesus' divinity.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1195 - August 24, 2011, 08:15 PM
    Excellent work, Wahhabist  Afro Thank you so much for resurrecting this very worthy effort.

    btw I posted here so I don't spoil the "Actual Translation" thread.

    It really is an excellent book - and I couldn't care less whether he's a Christian, (ex) Muslim, Buddhist or space alien - is a brilliant book!
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1196 - August 24, 2011, 08:42 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 24, 2011, 08:15 PM
    Excellent work, Wahhabist  Afro Thank you so much for resurrecting this very worthy effort.

    btw I posted here so I don't spoil the "Actual Translation" thread.

    It really is an excellent book - and I couldn't care less whether he's a Christian, (ex) Muslim, Buddhist or space alien - is a brilliant book!


    Thanks a lot, Hassan.

    Initially I honestly did not want to get involved into any work of translation or recycling of other people's doubts on Islam. I still am psychologically disturbed by the effect islam had on the way I think; I simply see this project and similar others as 'borrowing' other people's doubts and passing them when debating as yours. This accusation of being not original was one of many I used to pass to non-believers and it seems the guilty urge in me kicks in whenever I appear to be doing the same.

    You see, I had been taught to distrust any non-original (ergo dishonest) doubt and non-intellectual debunking of Islam because both were lacking regiour and were not through enough. And this project is one of it.

    Nonetheless I will carry on as a corrective therapy ( never noticed before how 'therapist' is close to 'the rapist' Smiley ).
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1197 - August 24, 2011, 08:51 PM
    Maybe you should see a psycho-the-rapist.  Tongue
    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1198 - August 24, 2011, 09:02 PM
    Quote from: Whabbist on August 24, 2011, 08:42 PM
    Thanks a lot, Hassan.

    Initially I honestly did not want to get involved into any work of translation or recycling of other people's doubts on Islam. I still am psychologically disturbed by the effect islam had on the way I think; I simply see this project and similar others as 'borrowing' other people's doubts and passing them when debating as yours. This accusation of being not original was one of many I used to pass to non-believers and it seems the guilty urge in me kicks in whenever I appear to be doing the same.

    You see, I had been taught to distrust any non-original (ergo dishonest) doubt and non-intellectual debunking of Islam because both were lacking regiour and were not through enough. And this project is one of it.

    Nonetheless I will carry on as a corrective therapy ( never noticed before how 'therapist' is close to 'the rapist' Smiley ).

    I understand. I agree on the one hand about passing on other people's doubts, and I also would never get involved in something that didn't reverberate with me personally. However when I read this book, it was like reading my own thoughts, feelings and experiences, but eloquently translated into words on a page and so for me it is something I feel completely happy about.

    I also feel an urge inside me to reach out to Muslims and gently wake them up. I was a teacher at an Islamic School for so long, and I think part of me feels I owe it to those youngsters and others not to remain silent now I can see what they cannot. As I always say I am driven by love for Muslims. I am happy to leave them - and defend them - in their faith if they wish. But I owe it to them to at least lend a hand to those who wish to escape.

    We here know perhaps best of all how difficult it is to reject Islam - and what baggage it leaves one with - and what it means for someone who's been through it to tell you 'you're not alone'.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1199 - August 25, 2011, 10:02 PM
    .
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