sufism.meditation?

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- stevevargas
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sufism.meditation?
OP - May 09, 2010, 05:28 PM

many beleive in mystic form of god and spiritual relation of our being with intellectual design.one man's inner world.what will u ppl say about sufism and its mythic acts of meditaion.lets debunk all religous dogmas.only find a relation with a intellect that himself says that he exists in human more closer to his heart(or wheter debunk it as well),its matter of finding him in oneself and then then one can find relation of all life and universe.meditation?
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Reply #1 - May 09, 2010, 05:36 PM

I think a troll has just joined this forum and is creating silly threads to convert us to his sufism.

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Re: sufism.meditation?
Reply #2 - May 09, 2010, 05:38 PM

Well, it sure beats orthodox Islam.
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Reply #3 - May 09, 2010, 05:39 PM

I don't think he's a troll. Why does everyone just shout "Troll" Anytime someone posts ignorant, misguided topics ;P.

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Reply #4 - May 09, 2010, 05:43 PM

Quote from: Zebedee on May 09, 2010, 05:38 PM
Well, it sure beats orthodox Islam.

Good point. I agree, but he should be trying to convert Muslims not staunch atheists/freethinkers like us. It ain't gonna work.

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Reply #5 - May 09, 2010, 06:01 PM

i m pretty surprised.free thinkers you are.but u guyz never came out of ur mother's womb with everything learned.every one suspects me.should i have to repeat my story that how did i got to knew about this forum and site.contact atheist .pk damn it.i just have misconceptions and wanted help.but i wonder what kind of ppl and free thinkers are here.morals????are they also gone with religion.
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Reply #6 - May 09, 2010, 06:12 PM

Quote from: stevevargas on May 09, 2010, 06:01 PM
morals????are they also gone with religion.

Yes, most definitely. Religion (belief in a personal god to be more precise) and true morals simply don't mix at all.
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Reply #7 - May 09, 2010, 06:13 PM

Sorry mate. I looked through your first few posts and didn't find an introduction post. How am I supposed to know your story?
If you are having doubts, tell us that first. You see, we get trolls coming here now and again, and it can be annoying sometimes. I apologise for calling you a troll.

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Reply #8 - May 09, 2010, 06:15 PM

fine.but i asked about sufism.not to ditch me.ask atheist.pk if u guys doubt in me or aziz i hope he l help.if m new one or just started thinking criticallt about religion that doesnt makes anysense mistrusting me
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Reply #9 - May 09, 2010, 06:18 PM

@stevevargas
If you really are interested in Sufism please check this out:http://thegoodgarment.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/mastery-of-the-internal-and-external/

Brilliant stuff, but not easy to comprehend.
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Reply #10 - May 09, 2010, 06:21 PM

Quote from: stevevargas on May 09, 2010, 06:15 PM
if m new one or just started thinking criticallt about religion that doesnt makes anysense mistrusting me

True, however we recently had an invasion of trolls hence the suspicion.

That's why it would be best if you were to start with an introduction, so that other posters understand where you are coming from.
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Reply #11 - May 09, 2010, 06:23 PM

Regarding your question about sufism/mysticism, I think it is all bullshit. As a free thinker, I only believe what can be proven by science. Science is beginning to understand the altered states of consciousness that make mystics feel the serenity and outworldiness, but there's still nothing supernatural about it. It's all neurons firing in funny ways. In fact, I would go further and say that there's no such thing as supernatural. If something amazing can be proven, it is still natural.

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Reply #12 - May 09, 2010, 06:25 PM

fine i m going for it.and then we'l talk.thats y i wonder everyone was so fucked up to me.ask atheist.pk tho about me
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Reply #13 - May 09, 2010, 06:39 PM

Theres something about sufism that just doesn't sit right with me.

Its kind of deceptive.

It preaches love and peace and unity of all mankind, but then it is used as a tool to convert people to Islam.

But if everyone is equal and all religions are one, why the need to convert people to only one of them

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Reply #14 - May 09, 2010, 06:50 PM

billy,
It's just another cult. Except its strategy for survival and propagation is not through violence, but through the attraction of pacifism and new age mysticism. These are very popular these days.

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Reply #15 - May 09, 2010, 06:55 PM

Yeah ateapotist. Don't get me wrong, if Islam really was sufism it wouldn't be a problem at all would it? Music, intoxication, pacifism etc. It would be as harmless as Hare Krishnas or a sect of Buddhists. But I can't help thinking there is something deceptive about it. How do you square a message of universal peace, love, equality of all religions and people with "La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadar Rasul Allah"?

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Reply #16 - May 09, 2010, 07:15 PM

The way I see it is, I don't really care whether they are consciously being deceptive or not. They are like a closely related religion that is tapping on the vast energy that mainstream Islam has, by borrowing many of the beliefs etc. From a memetic point of view, similar memes tend to gang together and that helps one another's survival. Just like the gene for floppy ears in dogs tends to go with the gene for a weak sense of smell, if you try to select for tameness.

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Reply #17 - May 09, 2010, 07:55 PM

Quote from: stevevargas on May 09, 2010, 05:28 PM
many beleive in mystic form of god and spiritual relation of our being with intellectual design.one man's inner world.what will u ppl say about sufism and its mythic acts of meditaion.lets debunk all religous dogmas.only find a relation with a intellect that himself says that he exists in human more closer to his heart(or wheter debunk it as well),its matter of finding him in oneself and then then one can find relation of all life and universe.meditation?

okay steve, you do not sound like a troll to me.. Let me tell you my problem with sufism and spirituality, some sufis like all mediators think that you can keep on reading certain verses or what ever and you will be able to fly.

Although it was never proven, but lets say that if you meditate for 5 years you will be able to fly or find the absolute truth... I find such a life extremely selfish as after all your hard work only you can fly or the truth will always be unprovable to all. So why not benefit humanity and go make invent an aircraft or discover some new cures for diseases.
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Reply #18 - May 09, 2010, 08:03 PM

but still is there some thing supernatural in those verses or what???
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Reply #19 - May 09, 2010, 08:18 PM

Which verses? And what makes something supernatural? Can you define please?

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Reply #20 - May 09, 2010, 08:30 PM

reciting verses as u said earlier or take example of any sufis doing some odd things that couldnt be called as magic.and they say thats through meditation or reciting SUrah xyz lets say
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Reply #21 - May 09, 2010, 09:02 PM

Quote from: stevevargas on May 09, 2010, 08:03 PM
but still is there some thing supernatural in those verses or what???

No there is nothing.. when you sit with sufis they tell you all sorts of funny stories about people who read some verse 1000 times and saw light and shit.. but none of them ever demonstrated it.
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Reply #22 - May 09, 2010, 09:07 PM

Thanks for the props for my blog, Kenan. Thought I'd check in briefly as I was getting some traffic from here. A potentially interesting discussion. I haven't been checking in at all recently to this or other forums as I've been focusing almost all my attention on the ladies.

Anyone want to ask me some questions or level some criticisms tonight about Sufism, I'll be happy to answer for the next 2 hours or so

Love and Light,

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https://vimeo.com/110528857
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Reply #23 - May 09, 2010, 09:09 PM

I can kick things off by saying something controversial: these days, more than ever, apostasy is a prerequisite to entering Sufism.

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Reply #24 - May 09, 2010, 09:11 PM

The tailor: The last time i was sitting with sufis i got a feeling they are kinda buddists i really loved that..
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Reply #25 - May 09, 2010, 09:21 PM

hi..hi..hi...ayyya...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V10gWQg4IJI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R6zxX7xxFk

da..da.di..deeee...

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #26 - May 09, 2010, 09:23 PM

You are welcome Tailor.

And I have a question if you don't mind.

As far as Islam (or Sufism) is concerned what are the implications of the fact that in Islam Jesus did not die on the cross?
I read recently that even Hegel was aware of the implications of Jesus dying on the cross as far as Christianity is concerned and I found it really interesting.

If its not too much to ask could you tell me what is your take on Hagar, the Egyptian slave who gave Abraham his first son?
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Reply #27 - May 09, 2010, 09:26 PM

Quote from: The tailor on May 09, 2010, 09:09 PM
I can kick things off by saying something controversial: these days, more than ever, apostasy is a prerequisite to entering Sufism.

I actually googled atheist sufis lol
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Reply #28 - May 09, 2010, 09:29 PM

SUFI AND ISLAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85_Gl9PxDB4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5fjXKzz0LA

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Reply #29 - May 09, 2010, 09:33 PM

Quote from: The tailor on May 09, 2010, 09:09 PM
I can kick things off by saying something controversial: these days, more than ever, apostasy is a prerequisite to entering Sufism.

The way I see things there is nothing controversial about the statement above.

You are speaking of apostasy form materialist dogma or something similar I guess?
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