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 Topic: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time

 (Read 37175 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 5 6 78 9 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #180 - May 18, 2010, 07:15 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 18, 2010, 07:08 PM
    OK, I'm outta this thread for a while - I am less interested in convincing people I'm right and they are wrong - than I am with having a friendly chat with ppl I consider my friends and as this thread is getting a bit to confrontational (I don''t like confrontation) I;m off for a while till things cool down.

    I think I'll do a bit of translating lol


    ok, I'll just ignore him then...
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #181 - May 18, 2010, 07:17 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on May 18, 2010, 07:13 PM
    I'd like to get an idea of what you consider a crime worthy of 'reformation', and the extent of the punishment applied. Thanks.


    Mass murder perhaps. How ever long it takes to reform - I'm not God - i can't tell you the extent of punishment this would take.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #182 - May 18, 2010, 07:21 PM
    Wouldn't it be better if god had just told us what the actual punishments for various crimes were. Indeed wouldn't it have been more efficient to insert his word into the brains of a developing child in the womb?
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #183 - May 18, 2010, 07:21 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on May 18, 2010, 07:08 PM
    You could love someone that tortured an equivalent to burning people in fire? That's pretty fucked up.


    who said the torment was equivalent to burning people in fire - i said it perhaps is a type of mental torment that we may not fully be able to understand.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #184 - May 18, 2010, 07:24 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 18, 2010, 07:17 PM
    Mass murder perhaps. How ever long it takes to reform - I'm not God - i can't tell you the extent of punishment this would take.


    So the only people who will burn in hell are those who have committed crimes on a par with mass murder? I'm sure I've read several ahadith stating that most of mankind will burn in hell. And Muhammad also said that women will be the majority, I'm not aware that many women have committed mass murders.

    And if it's about justice, then God could just have made it so that person did not get a chance to murder, then there would have been no need for justice, nor would a load of people have been murdered. If it's about reformation then an almighty God could find a way that does not involve torture.
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #185 - May 18, 2010, 07:25 PM
    Quote from: Lilyesque on May 18, 2010, 07:14 PM
    Please answer the question posed to debunker but i directed to you.


    I don't know, I can't read the mind of God - it's perhaps something beyond our understanding.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #186 - May 18, 2010, 07:26 PM
    You sound like someone pointing at a square while calling it a circle. When someone asks why it has right angles you respond with "we cannot comprehend". Though you're a gooner, so I'm not surprised.  Wink

    BTW, how can you even comprehend what it is that's beyond your comprehension? :p
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #187 - May 18, 2010, 07:29 PM
    Ok, Abu, what if I proved to you, using the Quran, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it promises ETERNITY in Hell, for some people, would you admit you no longer believe in it?

    If the answer is yes, then this Friday, I'll be writing a big post with verses and all, and put them togeather so it becomes undeniably clear that for some, Hell is forever. that shall take about a day to prepare, but you must promise me that you find the courage in yourself to admit your disbelief in this book, if you were truly convinced with my evidence.

    What say you?
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #188 - May 18, 2010, 07:31 PM
    Quote from: debunker on May 18, 2010, 07:29 PM
    Ok, Abu, what if I proved to you, using the Quran, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it promises ETERNITY in Hell, for some people, would you admit you no longer believe in it?

    If the answer is yes, then this Friday, I'll be writing a big post with verses and all, and put them togeather so it becomes undeniably clear that for some, Hell is forever. that shall take about a day to prepare, but you must promise me that you find the courage in yourself to admit your disbelief in this book, if you were truly convinced with my evidence.

    What say you?


    debunker can I ask one more question (lol i know i ask a lot). Why are you doing that?
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #189 - May 18, 2010, 07:32 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on May 18, 2010, 07:24 PM
    So the only people who will burn in hell are those who have committed crimes on a par with mass murder? I'm sure I've read several ahadith stating that most of mankind will burn in hell. And Muhammad also said that women will be the majority, I'm not aware that many women have committed mass murders.

    And if it's about justice, then God could just have made it so that person did not get a chance to murder, then there would have been no need for justice, nor would a load of people have been murdered. If it's about reformation then an almighty God could find a way that does not involve torture.


    I don't trust hadith, i think most of them are conjecture of men and made-up BS. in fact i'm pretty certain that a professional historian could discredit them quite easily. the fact is there's no way to tell if any of them were the actual words/actions of the Prophet since the majority of them were passed down by word of mouth for at least a hundered years.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #190 - May 18, 2010, 07:34 PM
    Quote
    debunker can I ask one more question (lol i know i ask a lot). Why are you doing that?

     

    well, I don't like to lie, so if I am to answer this question I'd have to reveal a very dark side of my personality, which I wouldn't do... so excuse if I won't answer your question, but let's just say that I'm a sick person and leave it at that.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #191 - May 18, 2010, 07:34 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 18, 2010, 07:32 PM
    I don't trust hadith, i think most of them are conjecture of men and made-up BS. in fact i'm pretty certain that a professional historian could discredit them quite easily. the fact is there's no way to tell if any of them were the actual words/actions of the Prophet since the majority of them were passed down by word of mouth for at least a hundered years.




    You ignored the second paragraph. Tongue
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #192 - May 18, 2010, 07:37 PM
    Quote from: debunker on May 18, 2010, 07:34 PM


    well, I don't like to lie, so if I am to answer this question I'd have to reveal a very dark side of my personality, which I wouldn't do... so excuse if I won't answer your question, but let's just say that I'm a sick person and leave it at that.


    lol i asked you twice but yeah i thought it was a weird trait, and i've seen other questionable posts

    told you.. you need to get laid.. and maybe some therapy after that (lol)

    but seriously work at it bro, no need to have that stuff inside of you, its self-destructive  hugs

    and oh yeah thanks for your honesty, its admirable Smiley
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #193 - May 18, 2010, 07:40 PM
    Quote from: debunker on May 18, 2010, 07:29 PM
    Ok, Abu, what if I proved to you, using the Quran, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it promises ETERNITY in Hell, for some people, would you admit you no longer believe in it?

    If the answer is yes, then this Friday, I'll be writing a big post with verses and all, and put them togeather so it becomes undeniably clear that for some, Hell is forever. that shall take about a day to prepare, but you must promise me that you find the courage in yourself to admit your disbelief in this book, if you were truly convinced with my evidence.

    What say you?


    this dude is gonna get me sentenced to hell  Cheesy
    I will read your post of course but i can't make any promises whether if i beleive you it will cause my apostasy or not (i don't think that's the way it works in practice) - although it may well shatter my faith if i am convinced by your evidence. i'm sorry i can't be any more honest than that.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #194 - May 18, 2010, 07:42 PM
    abu yunus i just wanna say dont do anything you feel uncomfortable with, i think looking at both sides of the coin is a great way to look at life, ultimately whatever choice you make is yours, and your smart enough to realize that, but i hope i havnt participated in any kind of pressure when discussing things with you, in any case, i have to be forward when asking questions, anything less would be disrespectful

    now.. can i go back to being an asshole or what? all this huggy lovely is too syrupy for my taste
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #195 - May 18, 2010, 07:47 PM
    Quote from: debunker on May 18, 2010, 07:34 PM


    well, I don't like to lie, so if I am to answer this question I'd have to reveal a very dark side of my personality, which I wouldn't do... so excuse if I won't answer your question, but let's just say that I'm a sick person and leave it at that.


    Hi DB.

    The all-knowing! Could you help me with the following problem (sorry for spamming):

    Quote
    a question on the matter of hell, heaven and justice. the question is wether a man commiting terrible acts, he sincerely thought he should do to follow god's commands (fx was brought up with these rules), should be rewarded, forgiven or punished? Is it justice to punish a man who from the bottom of his heart thought he was doing what god wanted him to do? Is it justice to let the man get away with doing these acts?


    Cheers
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #196 - May 18, 2010, 07:47 PM
    yep feel free blackdog - you're starting to creep me out
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #197 - May 18, 2010, 07:48 PM
    Grin
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #198 - May 18, 2010, 07:50 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 18, 2010, 07:40 PM
    this dude is gonna get me sentenced to hell  Cheesy
    I will read your post of course but i can't make any promises whether if i beleive you it will cause my apostasy or not (i don't think that's the way it works in practice) - although it may well shatter my faith if i am convinced by your evidence. i'm sorry i can't be any more honest than that.


    ok, despite your refusal to promise anything, I'll be preparing that post...it might take a while though, I have the defense on Thursday, so maybe by the end of this weekend... but I promise you you'll hit a wall, Abu, and you'll finally snap out of it! bunny
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #199 - May 18, 2010, 07:50 PM
     Cheesy
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #200 - May 18, 2010, 07:50 PM
    this forum is crazy
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #201 - May 18, 2010, 07:50 PM
    i really need aby on the end of msn
    easier to articulate stuff
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #202 - May 18, 2010, 07:52 PM
    Abu Yunus I'd add you to msn but you have poor taste in football so.. what's to discuss?  wacko
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #203 - May 18, 2010, 07:52 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on May 18, 2010, 07:37 PM
    lol i asked you twice but yeah i thought it was a weird trait, and i've seen other questionable posts

    told you.. you need to get laid.. and maybe some therapy after that (lol)

    but seriously work at it bro, no need to have that stuff inside of you, its self-destructive  hugs

    and oh yeah thanks for your honesty, its admirable Smiley


    It could probably be that... getting laid is what I'm missing... anyway, will be married within 6 months inshallah.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #204 - May 18, 2010, 07:53 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 18, 2010, 07:10 PM
    i just would like to make one thing clear - i still am a Muslim, and as far as i can tell will always be


    I don't think so lol
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #205 - May 18, 2010, 07:55 PM
    Quote from: Soren on May 18, 2010, 07:47 PM
    Hi DB.

    The all-knowing! Could you help me with the following problem (sorry for spamming):

    Cheers


    The answer is no. Such a man should not be punished, nor was a punishment promised for such men... I did discuss this with Hassan at length, here:
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=8392.0
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #206 - May 18, 2010, 07:57 PM
    Quote from: Cool Canadian on May 18, 2010, 07:53 PM
    I don't think so lol


    He is NOT, CC... he just doesn't know it yet and I'm going to help him see it. parrot
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #207 - May 18, 2010, 08:10 PM
    Meglomaniacal streak perhaps? In any case I must credit you on your honesty, which is refreshing.  You are probably one of the most honest muslims that I have come across on this forum.

    Quote from: debunker on May 18, 2010, 07:52 PM
    It could probably be that... getting laid is what I'm missing... anyway, will be married within 6 months inshallah.


    Out of interest, do you have arranged marriages in Saudi?  Just wondering whether desi arranged marriage is something that came out of Islam, or from its endemic hindu culture?
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #208 - May 18, 2010, 08:13 PM
    Quote from: debunker on May 18, 2010, 07:55 PM
    The answer is no. Such a man should not be punished, nor was a punishment promised for such men... I did discuss this with Hassan at length, here:
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=8392.0


    Fine so basicly since the man was a slave to his god he's saved? And the actions he did (whatever action) doesn't matter at all?
  • Re: Was Qur'an really meant to be for all-time
     Reply #209 - May 18, 2010, 08:14 PM
    the quran is based upon primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.
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