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Theme Changer

 Topic: My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation

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  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #150 - December 03, 2014, 09:15 PM

    The Qur'an remains a stumbling block to our full participation in the progress and changes mankind has made in recent history. Whereas the West has witnessed a revolution in the way holy texts are perceived, releasing them from its shackles, and separating church from state, we have been completely unable to change the way we view our holy text and have been left stranded. The contrast between a secular society that is dynamic, free and open to change and a society that is backward, stagnant and idle apart from just doing the same things and repeating itself, is a truly disgraceful and shameful state of affairs. While the classical stage of our history was dynamic and potent, able to give and take, create and innovate, investigate and examine, our present stage is characterised by apathy, stagnation, and blind regressive fundamentalism that is not proficient in anything apart from the language of intolerance, violence, blood, death and taking us into darkness.

    The sap has become dry, ambition withered & desire faded. Innovation is a dirty word and the doors of ijtihad have closed never to return. Fruitful fields of scientific study have been abandoned and little by little its place has been taken by the ideology of resignation, fatalism, superstition and passive reliance upon the supernatural. This was not due to theological censorship as with the ecclesiastical authority in medieval Christianity,(5), but due to the disintegration of the social and political frameworks of the Arab and Islamic world, and the decline of the intellectual and spiritual trends, starting from the 11th and 12th centuries. From that time the reactionary "Madrasah" education system spread throughout Zawiyas, Tekkes and Ribats* and from there popular forms of religion and practises spread amongst the masses including things like belief in saints, miracles (كرامات) and various other superstitious practises. While at the same time the link to the rational, scientific and intellectual heritage of the productive and positive era of our history, was severed. The Qur'an had lost the spark that ignited its fire, it had lost its inner drive, its dynamics and ability to bring about change and renewal. It had lost contact with the march of time and the spirit of the age and as a consequence it lost its relevance and qualitative function in reality and progress.

    _________________________

    5. Yes, there is effective fundamentalist censorship in the arena, but such censorship is as a result of backwardness and not the cause of it, while the ecclesiastical censorship was one of the three dominant forces in the Latin middle ages: King, Church and Feudalism. It is then, the cause and not the result. While our fundamentalism is one of the consequences of backwardness, their clergy were a cause of backwardness. So they are not the same.

    *Zawiya (زاوية), Tekke (تكية), Ribat (رباط) & also Khanqah (خانقاه) are all types of Sufi lodges or religious schools, used for devotion, contemplation and asceticism comparable perhaps to monasteries in Christianity.
  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #151 - December 03, 2014, 09:34 PM

    I forgot a footnote - just added it^
  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #152 - December 04, 2014, 07:31 PM

    The Qur'an retained many of the rites and rituals that had been prevalent in the Arabian Peninsula such as the sanctification of the black stone, the rituals of Hajj, beliefs about Jinn and Arabian past nations etc… and gathered these disparate pre-Islamic materials together, breathing new life, reconstructing and merging them into a new ideological edifice. It then added elements and effective references to nature and knowledge of the time that advanced its case in various areas of life. Then with the decline in the tide of intellectual thought and the steady cultural decline this edifice began to crumble and return to rubble and whereas for the first generation it had been a dynamic mechanism of practical use, it now became a crumbled relic that we worshipped, and glorified it's praises and present sacrifices to and vows and incense.

    Then the shock of modernity came banging at our door and violently intruded into our comatose state with the campaign of Napoleon.* We woke up in a panic at the sound of marching feet of the military. Some of us preferred to bury their heads in the sand and live in the dreams of the past, while others were happy to just stand and stare astonished at what was happening in front of them, mouths wide open, unable to believe their own eyes. However a rare few began to contemplate, investigate and explore matters in different ways.

    This one said "Go back to the fundamentals", this one said "Challenge the fundamentals and engage with modernity and the intellectual currents", this one says "Reconcile the two views and awake from our lethargy and apathy." This one calls for openness towards the "other", this one calls for isolationism and destruction of the "other", this one stands between that to correct one another. This one calls for innovation, this one blames innovation, this one demands to be followed, while this wants to follow, but following in his view cannot be without innovation and so on… This controversy has been going on for more than a century now, and it doesn't look like it's going to stop. If it had been a chicken it would have produced an egg by now and if a rooster to would have crowed!

    This is the historical tragedy in which we live today and which is incessantly complicated and magnified by the planting of Israel in the region exacerbating the situation, inflaming passions and distorting the discourse. Things have reached such a level of crisis and confusion that we don't know what we want and we want that which we don't know… We have succumbed to a wide range of religious, mythical and magical superstitions as well as stark social, economic and cultural disparities and to unbearable political despotism and a pitiful backward intellectual state. All this contradicts political, dynamic and economical freedom. It stifles the creative ability and a balanced historical perspective and stifles our will to change, progress and develop.

    The worst thing that has happened to us today is our disastrous relationship with the world around us and the times we live in. We are still trying to live according to decaying cultural modes and extinct forms of civilisation.

    Islam is not the solution. It was once - a long time ago. But times are different, and the world is no longer as it was. Islam is preventing us from finding a solution. It is a stumbling block on the road to a solution…. I do not see any need for us to keep renewing the creed of polytheism by constantly going around the Ka'ba, doing the Sa'y, sacrifices, kissing the black stone and hurling the jamarat to smash the head of Iblees - who really should have died by now.

    _____________________________

    *A reference to Napoleon Bonaparte's campaign in Egypt aimed at protecting French trade and undermining Britain, but also included 167 scientists & scholars, reflecting Napoleon's enthusiasm for the principles of the Enlightenment which he sought to spread while ordering his troops to respect the religion and customs of the Egyptians who he hoped to win over as allies.
  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #153 - December 13, 2014, 07:59 PM

    I have just gone over the "Foreword" that Iraqi Atheist completed way back when we started. Not because there was anything wrong with it - it was excellent - but I remember him saying some bits of the pdf were missing. So since we now have the full text document I was able to clarify a couple of points. (That said - the Forward, should still be credited to Iraqi Atheist.) (Also I changed the title from "Introduction" to "Forward" only because the next part is the authors introduction. تقديم and مقدمة can both mean "Introduction")

    __________________________________________

    Foreword.

    Abbas Abdul Nur was born in Damanhur in 1927. A Sufi Sheikh, pious, Muslim in religion, of the Sunni sect, jurist, and principal of a Sufi lodge (تكيّة). He inherited the knowledge of the religion from his forefathers and ancestors who were recognised for their piety, strength of doctrine and righteousness. In his city, he has followers (murids/religious pupils of a sufi path) who he led upon the path of true faith and devotion to to worship.

    He enrolled in the Faculty of Theology at Al Azhar where he studied for three years. He decided to complete the fourth year at the University of Fuad I, faculty of literature, department of philosophy where he studied under intellectual titans such as Abdel Rahman Badawi, Zaki Naguib Mahmoud, Muhammed Abdul Hadi Abu Reeda, Ahmad Fuad Al-Ahwani, Yusuf Murad, and others.

    Despite this, he was disappointed in both universities and said that he wasted four years of his life. From Fuad I he transferred to the Higher Institute of Education and obtained a degree from there. He was awarded a scholarship from the Department of Islamic Endowments to Study in Paris at the Sorbonne for a doctorate in philosophy and so he obtained what he pursued.

    When he returned to his city, he resumed his religious endeavour and he became a preacher, imam, and a speaker in one of its mosques. He then persevered at university teaching and writing erudite philosophical books and has a number of publications in the fields of philosophical, Islamic and Arabic thought that have been reprinted several times in Cairo and Beirut. After he retired, he devoted himself to writing and research in various fields of philosophy, literature, and religion.

    But his intellectual life was not without worries nor his religious life free of doubts. It is true that he grew up in a pious devout household; however, there were misgivings, inner-turmoil, and endless questions. His mind was raising provocative subjects but his faith was enough to answer every dilemma.

    The conflict between science and religion started early with Abbas. A conflict that had no chance to be made public. Had this conflict emerged from where he suppressed it when it first arose, he wouldn’t have reached this degree of indignation that he expresses in this unrivalled book. If he was allowed to express his mind and heart, the result would have been the same but it wouldn’t have been with such intensity and fervour.

    Abbas is not responsible for the rejection of the Quran and the God of the Quran. Neither are the Quran or God responsible. It’s the Muslims and especially the "waffling" Mufassirun who are responsible for this strange, bizarre view of the Quran and the God of the Quran.

    They uprooted the Quran from its environment and presented it to us as an uncreated, eternal, divine text that has no relation with human fallibility nor limitations associated with the circumstances of its origins. This is the whole problem to Dr. Abbas. He wants nothing but its return back to the course of history. An excellent text in its time but full with mistakes and misguidances when taken out of its time.

    We ask the reader to read slowly in order to judge, and to read what the author has gone through, and to let his reason and faith work together. Let the reader know that faith works where reason doesn't, but not without it.

    M. H.

  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #154 - December 14, 2014, 04:53 PM

    The initial parts of chapter four were not included in this thread so I figured I'd dig it out from the other thread and post it here. 

    Chapter 4

    Part 1

    The Belief of Muslims in the Miraculous Nature (of the Qur'an)

    "Say: If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support."  (17:88)

    The Qur'an is indeed a unique book. It is prose and yet unlike prose. It is poetry and yet unlike poetry. It is metered and rhyming and yet it is not like the (standard) meters and rhymes. So what is it then? It is the Qur'an and that's it!

    Perhaps the best description of the Qur'an is that which the late Dean of Arabic literature, Dr. Ta Ha Hussain said: "The Genres of Arabic expression are poetry, prose and qur'an." For the Qur'an is not poetry - no! and it is not prose. It is a type of speech that is of a singular nature, unique of it's kind. It's qur'an! For that reason they (the scholars) are united in the opinion that what is called the miraculous nature of the Qur'an is it's amazing composition.

    Miraculousness (al-'Ijaaz) in the Arabic language comes from 'To Make Unable", in other words it attributes the inability to another and a miracle is called a miracle because mankind is unable to replicate it.

    The (scholarly) discipline of the Miraculous Nature (of the Qur'an) was a discipline that was an innovation in religion. This discipline reached it's full maturity in the 4th century of the Hijra when it became independent and grew into a discipline in it's own right. Today it's a fundamental tenet of faith that no-one can dare throw doubt on.  Beginning in the 4th century of the Hijra the (discipline) of the Miraculous Nature became indelibly written in stone.

    Despite that there were those who cast doubt on this belief, going right back to the first centuries of Islam.

    Perhaps the first of these was al-Ja'd ibn Dirham, tutor to Marwan ibn Muhammad the last of the Umayyad Caliphs. For he was the first one to openly express skepticism of the Qur'an, and refutation of it and rejection of things in it. He said that it's eloquence was not a miracle and that people can do the like of it and better than it when no-one had before him had said such as that. Marwan - who was nicknamed the donkey - used to follow his view to the extent that he was linked to him and called "Marwan al-Ja'di" (1).

    During the mid Abbasid period this view (that the Qur'an was not a miracle) spread along with other views of a similar nature, such as the view that the Qur'an was created as well as it's opposition (those who believed it was not created, but eternal - on the "Protected Tablet"). The first to go to great lengths in that was 'Isa ibn Sabih, known as Abu Musa al Mirdar, who was one of the Mu'tazilite scholars and amongst the leading ones. He was called the Monk of the Mu'tazilites and differed from the rest of the Mu'tazilites in all of the issues that concern us here. Saying about the Qur'an that people are able to produce the like of this Qur'an as regards eloquence, and composition and rhetorical beauty (2).

    Similar to that (view, that others could produce the like of the Qur'an) was the view taken by his contemporary, Ibrahim Ibn Sayyar Ibn Hani' Al-Nazzam, who expounded many of the works of the philosophers and combined their ideas with the ideas of the Mu'tazilites (3). But he differed from his colleagues in 13 matters, while Al-Baghdadi increased that number to 21.

    If Al-Shahrastani labels the areas Al-Nazzam differed from his colleagues, "issues", these "issues" become "shameful scandals" in the view of Al-Baghdadi! So the 9th issue that Al-Shahrastani reproaches Al-Nazzam about; becomes "The 25th shameful scandal of his shameful scandals" according to the wording of Al-Baghdadi: "His view regarding the miraculous nature of the Qur'an that it is to do with the fact it predicts events of the past and future, and to do with the the fact it diverted the causes of opposition and prevented the Arabs - by force and incapacitation - from being concerned with (trying to imitate) it, because if he (Allah) let them then they would have been able to produce a Sura (chapter) the like of it in beautiful rhetoric, eloquence and composition" For mankind is able to produce the like of this Qur'an, but Allah diverted them from doing that and prevented them by placing hinderance and incapacity within them to do so. This is "The View of Divertion."

    (Hassan: In other words Al-Nazzam's view was that the miraculous nature of the Qur'an was NOT that it could not be imitated - in his view it could easily be imitated - but that Allah prevented the Arabs from doing so!)

    (1) See: Mustafa Sadiq Al-Rafi'i, "The Miraculous Nature of the Qur'an and the Prophetic Rhetoric." Page 160.

    (2) Al-Baghdadi, "The Difference Between the Groups" Page 164-165 ; and Al-Shahrastani, "The Book of Sects and Creeds", 1 / 68-69.

    (3) Al-Shahrastani, 1 / 35-45.

    (4) Previous Reference 1 / 56-57

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #155 - December 14, 2014, 04:54 PM

    Part 1: The Belief of Muslims in the Miraculousness (of the Qur'an) cont....

    Now we ask what is the nature of the Miraculousness of the Qur'an?

    The scholars of Arabic - especially the scholars of language and elegant speech - are completely united that the Qur'an is in itself a miracle. That its miraculousness is in it's wonderful composition, in the eloquence of it's expressions, the astounding nature of it's clear speech, its unique style that is unlike any other style, it's captivating verbal impact, that reveals itself in its acoustic structure, and linguistic beauty, and its sublime artistry.

    Al-Qadi Abu Bakr (d. 1148) said the nature of the miraculousness of the Qur'an is in it's composition, arrangement, and structure. That it's beyond all types of standard composition in the language of the Arabs, departing from their styles of oration and for this reason they were unable to oppose it. The composition of the Qur'an had no model to imitate, nor any antecedent to emulate and It's unreasonable (to think) that the like of it could happen by chance. He said: 'the miraculousness  of Qur'an is much clearer in some parts while in some parts it is more subtle, and more obscure. (5)

    Al Imam Fakhr al-Din (d. 1210) said the nature of the miraculousness is the eloquence, and unique style, free from all defects.

    al-Zamalkani (d. 727h) said the nature of the miraculousness derives from the composition that's unique to it and is not haphazard. In that it's words are finely balanced in construction, in meter and the reason behind the way it's been put together, in meaning. So that every type occurs in the best possible place for it's pronunciation and meaning.

    And Ibn Atiyya said: The correct (opinion) and the one that laymen and experts are agreed upon in regard to its miraculousness is that it is it's composition and the soundness of it's meanings. and in the arrangement of the eloquence of it's wording. And that is because Allah's knowledge surrounds all things and surrounds all (aspects) of language. So since the organisation of the wording in the Qur'an is something his knowledge completely surrounds, i.e. each word perfectly suits the one it follows and each meaning is elucidated after another and that is the case from beginning to end of the Qur'an and man is encompassed by ignorance, bewilderment and perplexity  and it is self-evident that no human being encompasses all that, then as a result the arrangement of the Qur'an is furthest epitome of eloquence and for that reason one destroys the saying of those who claim that the Arabs were able to replicate the like of it or that they were 'diverted' from doing so. The correct (opinion) is that it is not within the ability of anyone ever! (6)

    (5) Quoted from the previous reference, p. 122

    (6) All thee quotes are taken from the previous reference, p. 133 with some slight edits in wording but not meaning.
     

    However the scholars disagree about the difference in the degrees of eloquence of the verses of Qur'an after having agreed it is in the highest forms of eloquence, in so far as you cannot find phrasing that is more suitable nor balanced, to convey that meaning.

    Al-Qadi (Abu Bakr  d. 1148) takes the opinion of 'negation', meaning negation of there being any difference (in degrees of eloquence). For every word in it is depicted in it's highest (form/usage) even though some people are better at sensing it than others.

    While Abu Al-Qushairy and others take the opinion of 'difference' (in degrees of eloquence), he said: "We do not claim that everything in the Qur'an is in the highest rank of eloquence.

    And likewise others have said: "In the Qur'an is (both) the Eloquent and the Most Eloquent. This is the opinion taken by Sheikh 'Izz al-Din 'Abd al-Salam who then asked: "Why was the Qur'an not entirely in the most eloquent form?" Al Sadr Mawhoob Al Jazari replied to the effect that 'if the Qur'an had come in that (most eloquent form) it would not be in the usual style of speech from the Lord, combining the Most Eloquent with the Eloquent and so the proof of the miraculousness would not be complete. So it came in their usual style of speech to highlight the inability to challenge it and so they can't say, for example: 'You have brought that which we have no ability in it's like. Just as it would not be right for a sighted person to say to a blind person: "I beat you by virtue of my sight." Because the blind person will say to him: "Your victory can only be valid if I was able to see, and (then you could say) your sight was better than mine. But if I lack the ability to see then how can I make a challenge?" (7)

    In any case the Qur'an is in the eyes of Muslims the Prophet's greatest miracle. No falsehood in it either before or behind it. "Indeed everything in the Qur'an is a miracle in respect of the music of its letters, the kinship between its wording, the synchronicity of it's words with it's expressions, and well-knit arrangement in it's resonance and that which it arrives at in regards to composition between the words and the fact that every word intentionally fits it's counterpart. As though the weave of each part perfects it's picture and completes it's objective. It's meanings coalesce with it's words as though it's meanings are related to it's pronunciations and it's pronunciations were designed for it, and made to fit it's size." (8 )


    (7) The previous reference p 109

    (8 ) The previous reference p 99


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #156 - December 14, 2014, 04:57 PM

    Part 2

    What kind of Miraculousness is it?

    Now we say: Indeed the belief in the miraculousness of the Qur'an is no more than a myth amongst myths. Indeed! The Qur'an is not amongst the secrets of the gods. It doesn't bear the slightest relation to divine inspiration that takes it outside the (normal) activity of (human) history. It's a purely human achievement that follows the norms of humanity in strength and weakness, correctness and error, agreement and contradiction, cohesion and disparity, consistency and inconsistency, uniformity and disarray.

    The direct result of all that is that the Qur'an is a very ordinary book. For that reason it is necessary to remove it from its safe refuge, outside Human history and return it to the world of people. After that it will no longer be storehouse for timeless wisdom nor a divine book protected from error that no falsehood can approach it from either front or behind.

    In that way, it and it's time and it's context become part of the historical process of the area which has witnessed, and continues to witness every day, comparable books that influenced these books and are influenced by it and ignite the interaction between them.

    Every star-struck believer, regardless of whether he is from the common people or their elite or even from the elite of the elite, relies (on the belief) that "in the Qur'an, due to beauty of the words and the splendour of the style especially, no-one can attain the phrases, style and meanings. (9)

    And that challenge, that Allah announced in the Qur'an for Man & Jinn to bring the like of this Qur'an,

    "Say: "If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support." (17:88)

    is absolutely true, but it doesn't apply only to the Qur'an, it also applies  to every great work. For just as Man & Jinn are not able to produce the like of the Qur'an, likewise they cannot produce the like of that which Plato brought, nor Al Jahiz, nor Al Tawhidi, nor Dante, nor Goethe, nor Shakespear...

    Great works always contain the fingerprints of their authors. It is a part of their identity. So if it is impossible to imitate these fingerprints, then it is also impossible to imitate these works. Each one is a unique weave that has no match in the works of man and thus establishes it's character. Despite this each one is not free from flaws and errors and defects that the critic can be aware of. Likewise the Qur'an. In the work of al Jahiz and Al Tawhidi is that which far surpasses what is in some of the verses of the Qur'an, as we shall see, but who dares criticise the Qur'an?

    Indeed the Muslims of the Middle Ages during the Golden Age, had more freedom than Muslims in this time. If not then why does no-one dare, like Al Sarakhsi and Ibn Rawandi and Al Razi, to defame the most holy symbol of Muslims, the valuable of valuables that gives meaning to their existence and bestows on them hope and immortality.

    All efforts and active forces in the Islamic world have been enlisted to repel the "Enemies of Allah". Criticism of Allah's book has been met with a reception that varies from forbearance & irritation, between insult & vilification and between suppression & temperance, and 'dealing' with antagonists ranged between chit-chat & bluster, to finding excuses and haphazard solutions - or as I myself call it, "Patching" (the holes) - to save the word of Allah from the clutches of the deniers, the astray and the ones who lead others astray. Between hitting and slapping, punching and physical eradication, seeking closeness to Allah through the blood of that insolent fabricator of lies about Allah, denier of his signs, so that he be a warning to his like, the forces of the Devil, "and Satan indeed found his calculation true concerning them, for they followed him..." (34:20) them and the seducers. Then they topple into the Fire of Hell all of them together (10). They are the ones who Allah curses, and those who curse, curse them!!

    Indeed opposing the Qur'an was a natural process that arose with the rise of Islam, but the new religion killed it in the cradle, or at least was able to silence it for a while. That was after the astounding victory that it achieved in the arabian peninsular and the area surrounding it. Indeed it was such a tremendous breakthrough that it temporarily diverted attention away from that which interplays in it of (opposing) forces and deep contradictions that don't appear on the surface except in moments of quiet and stability or at the times of fitna.

    For that reason it is not strange that this process started anew or returned to the open when the Umayyad dynasty began to disintegrate and draw towards it's inevitable end. For indeed Islam injured the pride of many of the leaders of the heretics (Zanadiqa) - and they were the Shu'ubiyyah (Hassan: A popularist movement against the the supremacy of the Arabs) - and nationalist pride overtook them and led them to fanaticism for the religion of their fathers such as Zoroastrianism and Manichean dualism and hatred towards Islam that ended their glory and destroyed their dreams in lasting and noble life. A group of poets who belonged to "The League of the Mujjan" (Hassan: A group of libertine/dissident intellectuals such as Bashar ibn Burd and Abu Nuwas)  joined them, fleeing from the constraints of religion and seeking a life of freedom with no restrictions or regulations.

    Then came the Abbasid period where the Shu'ubiyya movement was active side by side with the Heretical movement (Harkatu z-Zandaqa) and the attacks on Islam intensified and disparagement of it's holy of holies - the Qur'an. And at the head of this movement were poets, satirists, and disaffected thinkers, the most famous of them: Salih Ibn Abdul Quddus, and Abdul Karim ibn Abu Al 'Awjaa', and Abu 'Isa al Warraq and Bashar ibn Burd, and his adversary Hammad Ajrad, and Iban ibn Abdul Hamid al Lahiqi, and Ibn Muqaffa', and (his son?) Muhammad ibn Abdullah ibn Muqaffa', and Abd al Masih al Kindi who we shall say a few words about in a bit to show the participation of non-Muslims in the attack on the Qur'an...

    But the most famous of all these without argument is: Abu al Hussein Ahmad ibn Yahya ibn Ishaq al Rawandi, and Abu Bakr Muhammad ibn Zakariyya al Razi, under both of whom the movement of Heretics reached it's climax and extent of its maturity and we will discuss now each of them briefly, enough to clarify what we mean.


    (9) Muhammad Abu Zahra, "The Greatest Miracle."

    (10) Allusion to what is related in Sura al Shu'araa' 26/94.


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #157 - December 14, 2014, 05:00 PM

    1. Ibn al-Rawandi (d. 298H / 910AD)
    (Abu Ali Note; none of his books have survived. What exists are quotes from critics.)

    At first the Dissident Movement, or the Movement of Heretics, was simply a spontaneous individual attitude or libertine outburst or a transient intellectual position, but then this movement began to manifest itself and crystalize with the passing of time until it became a comprehensive school of thought based on the pillars of reason. It acquired supporters who believed in it and worked to publicise it and disseminate it's principles. This movement continued to grow, consolidate and rise until it reached it's apex under Ibn al-Rawandi. His view of Prophethood formed the cornerstone of the the barrage on the Qur'an, by these Heretics, though without that extending to doubt in the existence of Allah who revealed the Qur'an.

    Doubt in Prophethood was the furthest extent that this movement of Heretics achieved in Islam. Then it came to a halt after a violent shake-up in concepts and doctrines grew out of it, in the 4th century (of Hijra) that drew towards it the movements of the concealed ideologies that were influenced by Gnosticism and Esoteric Knowledge and especially those associated with the Shi'ism and the Isma'iliyyah Shi'ism in particular.

    Ibn Rawandi was the most famous of the dissenters of the 3rd century of Hijrah, though only a little is known about him, even the date of his birth and death are not known for certain. He was originally a Mu'tazilite (A non-orthodox Sunni School of thought) then recanted and leaned towards Shi'ism and became a bitter enemy to the Mu'tazilites.

    He was a vehement believer in Reason, praising it and relying on it in all matters and affairs. Reason, in his opinion, was: "The greatest gift bestowed by God, glorified is he, upon his creation.  Indeed it is through it that the Lord and his blessings can be known and by virtue of it that orders & prohibitions, his promises & threats become valid." He wrote a book called "The Scandal of the Mu'tazilah"(12) which was a critical analysis of the Mu'tazilite School of thought from the perspective of the Shi'ah Al Rafidah and a reply to the book of al Jahiz "The Virtue of the Mu'tazilah". But this period did not last long and we see him after that amongst the group of those who the author of the "The Catalogue" (Kitab al-Fihrist, by Ibn al-Nadim d. 995 AD ) gives the title "Theologians who manifest Islam, but conceal heresy". He was influenced in this by Abu 'Isa al Warraq who was a teacher of his and encouraged him towards Heresy.

    Ibn Rawandi began his Heretical writings in the latter years of his life, and they are the books that he owes his importance and high status to. Amongst these books is a book where he dealt a massive blow to the Qur'an. He called it "The Crushing Blow". It was, as it's title suggests, a merciless attack on the Qur'an.

    A third book is attributed to him called the book of "The Emerald" where he refutes the concept of Prophethood in Islam and attacks the belief in the Miraculousness of the Qur'an. We said that this book is "attributed to him" due to a reference that it's said it's attributable to Al Jaba'iy and goes on to say: "Indeed Ibn al Rawandi and Abu 'Isa Muhammad Ibn Harun al Warraq the Heretic, also dispute with one another over the book of "The Emerald" each one claiming that it is amongst their compilations as both were in complete accordance in attacking the Qur'an." (13)

    In the the first and third parts of this book, Ibn al Rawandi (or Abu 'Isa al Warraq?) presents his opinion on Reason and Religions that depend on Revelation and explains the position on each. He  begins his book with Human Reason, praising it and going to great lengths in celebrating the fact that it is the only path to enlightenment.  For that reason his opponents must agree with him that Reason is the mightiest thing that man possesses and is the sole refuge to solve problems, indeed! "The prophet bore witness to the high status and majesty of Reason." (14)

    So Reason should be used to analyse Prophethood. Either the teachings of the Prophet agree with Reason, and in that case there is no need for it because Reason is in no need of it, or it contradicts reason in which case it is false. For that reason it was necessary for Ibn al Rawandi to be surprised at the position of Muhammad and wonder; "Why did he bring that which negates him if he was authentic?" (15) For the revelation of Muhammad is in complete opposition to reason. Then, what is the meaning of these obligatory religious injunctions upon the Muslim, such as ritual washing, and prayer and circumambulating around the Ka'abah and visiting the holy sites?

    Regarding that, Ibn al Rawandi says "Indeed the prophet brought that which contradicts Reason, such as prayer, ritual cleansing from impurity, throwing stones at pillars during Hajj, and walking around a house that cannot hear nor see? Or dashing between two rocky mounds that can neither benefit nor harm. All of this has nothing to do with Reason. So what is the difference between (the hills of) Safa and Marwa and (the hills of) Abu Qubays and Hira? And walking round the (holy) house is no different than walking round any other houses." (16)

    Ibn al Rawandi used the myths of the Brahmans to express his bold views. He used them as the means by which to attack "Divinely revealed" religions and laws (Hassan: Since it is easier for Muslims to recognise the superiority of using reason in relation to the claims of 'divine inspiration' of others,) so he could hide beneath this veil his belief (about Islam). He made them as analogies for the (necessity of) Reason and Intellect so that they could be set free of their own accord and express the views and thoughts that naturally occur to them, while attaching it to delusional characters to soften it's blows upon the audience.

    In this vein and in the name of Reason that he never ceases to praise and extol for a moment, he goes on to attack the Qur'an in his previously mentioned book "The Emerald". He reviews in this book the concept of the Miraculousness of the Qur'an and crticises it ruthlessly, and annihilates the view of the divine origin of the Qur'an and puts forward a simple, concrete, logical and reasoned view with no ambiguity in it. Convincing the intellect of the human nature of the Qur'an, refuting those who say that it is an inspiration from Allah and a revelation from an all-wise and all-knowing entity.

    It is also related that Ibn al Rawandi said - regarding refuting the belief in the miraculousness of the Qur'an:

    "Indeed it is not impossible that one arab tribe is more eloquent than all the other tribes, and that a group of people in this tribe are more eloquent than (others) in this tribe and one member of this group is more eloquent than this group... and suppose that his eloquence was spread amongst the Arabs... so what is it's wisdom upon the non-arabs who do not understand the Arabic language? What is the proof for them?" (17)

    And Ibn al Rawandi mocked the theatrical spectacle of the angels who Allah sent down from heaven during the battle of Badr, to help the prophet. He said, indeed: "They had limited effect, little power, despite their great number and the combination of them and Muslims, they could not kill more than 70 people... And where were the angels during the battle of Uhud when the prophet was skulking in fear amongst the slain? Why didn't Allah help him in that situation?" (18)

    It was also related in the book of "The Emerald", quoting from the book of "The Victory" by Al Khayyat, his saying: "Indeed the Qur'an is not the speech of a wise god. In it are contradictions and mistakes and passages that are in the realms of the impossible." As in the theatrical episode of the angels of Badr that we just mentioned.

    Then indeed Ibn al Rawandi finds in the discourse of Aktham Ibn Sayfi better (language) than (the Qur'an that boasts) "Indeed we have given you the Abundance" (108/1) (20) As Ibn al Jawzi says in his brief allusion to the book of "The Emerald": "Then he begins with attack on the Qur'an and claims the existence of linguistical mistakes in it." (21)

    And before ibn al Rawandi exploits criticism of the Qur'an in his book "The Crushing Blow", and Ibn Jawzi has preserved for us copies of this criticism, for amongst the parts that he preserved for us in his book "Al Muntathim Fi al Tarikh", from the book of "The Crushing Blow" which has not survived, the following piece: "When (Muhammad) described (in the Qur'an) Paradise, he said: In it are rivers of laban, whose taste has not gone off, and that is milk, yet no one desires that apart from the hungry. And he mentioned honey that no-one wants at all and Ginger, which is not tasty except as a drink and silk brocade (sundus) which is used as a spread, not as clothes and likewise embroidered brocade (Istabriq) which is a thick/rough type of silk brocade. He said one who imagines himself in Paradise wearing this rough clothing and drinking milk and ginger, will be like a bride in a Kurdish or Nabataean wedding!" (22)

    Ibn al Rawandi turns his attention to the Divine challenge to bring the like of the Qur'an and says: "If you want the like of it in respect of superior speech, we can bring you a thousand like it from the speech of the masters of rhetoric and champions of eloquence and poets and is more fluent in wording and more concisely conveys the meanings, more elegantly rendered and expressed and more beautifully rhymed. An if you are not content with that then we demand from you the same that you demand from us!" (23)

    (Hassan: There appears to be a opening quotation mark missing from the original in this next bit, and I'm not sure where it should go.)
    Even the Mu'tazilah who reject all Miracles or at least attach no importance to them, still believe in the miracle of the Qur'an. (24) But Al Nazzam, who was the most bold and freethinking of the Mu'tazilite theologians, rejected the miraculous nature of the Qur'an in regard to it's composition, he rejected what was related of miracles of our prophet, peace be upon him, as regards splitting the moon, the pebbles in his hand glorifying God, the gushing of water from his fingers, to arrive by way of rejection of the miracles of our prophet, peace be upon him, to the rejection of his prophethood." (25)

    (11) Quoted from Dr. Abd al Rahman Badawi, from "History of Disbelief in Islam" page 202.

    (12) See: The previous reference, page 87, 186 and that which is after it.

    (13) Quote from the previous reference p 112 and 182.

    (14) Quote from the pervious reference p. 186-187.

    (15) Quote from the pervious reference p. 84.

    (16) Quote from the pervious reference 101-102. Abu Qubais and Hira are mountains in Makkah.

    (17) Quote from the previous reference p 87.

    (18) Quote from the previous reference p 87.

    (19) Quote from the previous reference p 110.

    (20) Quote from the previous reference p 111.

    (21) Quote from the previous reference p 120.

    (22) Quote from the previous reference p 133.

    (23) Quote from the previous reference p 216.

    (24) Quote from the previous reference p 119 and 153.

    (25) Al Baghdadi, "The Difference Between the Groups", p 132; See also p 149-150

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #158 - December 14, 2014, 05:03 PM

    2. Abd al Masih al Kindi (9th Century AD)

    This attack on Islam was not restricted to apostate Muslims. No, indeed, non-Muslims entered the ranks, galvanized by the fury of the fierce offensive being waged on the new religion. Perhaps the most famous of these, whose quotes have reached us, was the philosopher Abd al Masih ibn Ishaq al Kindi (Hassan: Not to be confused with the well known Muslim philosopher also called al Kindi). He was a Nestorian that it is claimed lived in the courtyard of (the Caliph) al Ma'mun who, no doubt due to his openness towards those who differed from him in views and belief, (Hassan: Al Ma'mun was famous for gathering opposing sects and religions to hear them debate,) tolerated the ferocious criticism of this Christian who attacked the rituals of Islam and it's beliefs, one after another and especially the rites of Hajj.

    His views that concern us here are those connected to our topic and his explanation for the effect of the Qur'an in that "The Nabataeans, the rabble, non-arabs, the gullible and the ignorant who have no understanding of the Arabic language", are the only ones who would be duped by the claim of the Miraculous nature of the Qur'an in respect of it's composition." (26)


    (26) Quote from Dr. Badawi, from "The History of Disbelief in Islam," p 129.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #159 - December 14, 2014, 05:07 PM

    3. Abu Bakr Al Razi (d. 311 H / 923 AD)

    Al Razi is the second of the two who, without rival, courageously barged their way over the red line. Many before them hovered close but never quite hit the mark. Either because of their fear or lack of resources. As for al Razi and before him, Ibn al Rawandi, they are the indisputable masters of the field. Indeed all those who attempted to reply to them could not match them. Not at all! They were not on their level. They were dwarfs that cannot be compared to either of them. No way! No way!

    Each one was a revolutionary, rebellious visionary, who revealed the concealed (thoughts), brought out the pent-up (feelings) and freed the suppressed (minds). They thought the thoughts that were not thought about. No! That were not allowed to be thought about. Each one of them would not accept anything less than making the most holy of holies the object of their criticism, and delving into it to uncover it's flaws, and disgrace it's myths and illusions. Exposing what it contains of threats, claims and hearsay on account of which man is crushed, and paralyzes his abilities and enslaves him to supernatural powers and invisible entities. To rob and intimidate him like an unsheathed sword hanging over his head, not allowing him any room to move to see what is beyond his nose or know what is going on around him. Thus he must live his life, hostage to the fears, anxieties, whisperings and misgivings that come between him and achieving his best potential. Destroying all his ambitions of self realization and personal freedom.

    Al Razi was a philosopher, doctor and alchemist of the highest order just as he was the pillar of the dissident and heretical movement during his age and the following centuries.

    If there was a difference between him and Ibn al Rawandi then it was in the degree of depth and widening of the details and (his) ability to generate new ideas from old ones, but both believed and relied upon Reason and both base their judgments and conclusions upon Reason.  In their opinion, Reason was to the yardstick to measure everything.

    If Ibn al Rawandi, in his heretical and irreligious meditations, worked within a similar atmosphere to that of the Muslim theologians, then: "Al Razi attacked and criticised the shortcomings of Religion from the perspective of Philosophy." (27)

    In the same way as Ibn al Rawandi used the Brahmins as a vehicle by which to disguise his views, and to place on their tongues what was really in his own mind regarding the invalidation of prophethood and virtues of Reason, al Razi also did likewise, in that he attributes to it (Reason) not just the (ability to arrive at) ethical behaviour, as Ibn al Rawandi did, but attributes to it (knowledge) of divine matters also. For he said, indeed we: "Through it (Reason) arrive at knowledge of the Creator, Mighty & Glorified is He." (28)

    This proves that there is no justification for Prophethood as long as Reason is able to lead us to all that is ethical and unethical. In any case Ibn al Rawandi : "Moved in Theological and Religious field of study, where as al Razi moved in the Scietific field." (29)

    In summary, there is no doubt that Ibn al Rawandi blazed the trail, and opened the way, but al Razi watered it and boarded it with palm trees and beautified it with flowers and scented herbs and raised upon it a lofty edifice.

    Al Razi praised Reason "using language which surpasses that used by the great rationalists of all ages, even in the modern age," as Abd al Rahman confirmed in his aforementioned book.

    By virtue of Reason, man is in no need of Prophethood, nor Religion, nor all the Divine Books and as a consequence; nor the Qur'an. By virtue of Reason and Reason alone, we can know good from bad and truth from falsehood. There is no authority other than the authority of Reason, nor any belief other than belief in Reason... and if this is it's magnitude then we must never minimise it's value, nor reduce it's status, and never make it a subject when it is the master.

    Prophethood was al Razi's overriding concern, he demolished it on the basis that Reason has no need for it. He said: "From whence did you make it necessary that God singled out a people for Prophethood instead of another? Preferring them over (other) people? Giving them evidences and forcing others to be in need of them (in need of these people)? And from whence did you allow in the wisdom of the Wise that he chooses that for them and raises some over others confirming enmity between them, increasing wars and with that annihilate people?" (30)

    We are not so concerned here that al Razi heaps criticism and abuse on prophethood & prophets, and elaborates in great detail on that. What concerns us is his criticism of Religions, so we can arrive, in that way, at his opinion on the Qur'an. For that reason we see him turning his attention to "Revealed" Religions and the books they brought which they ascribe divinity to. He analyses them without bias, favouritism, or discrimination. For all of them are of equal importance. (31)

    For the disbelief of al Razi was not aimed at a specific religion without another, in other words it was not aimed at Islam alone. That highlights the objectivity of al Razi and the soundness of his opinion. For all religions were subject to attack and abuse. For they do not say the same things. They contradict one another despite the fact they claim to come from the same source and (claim) they are free from defect and lies. But how can that be the case when they contain absurdities and contradictions.

    Here the adversary poses the question: If religions are as you say, then how can we explain the adherence of the masses to them?

    al Razi responds to this objection by (saying) that the followers of (the various) religions have taken the religion from their (religious) leaders by way of imitation. They  are prevented from questioning or scrutinizing the foundations, and tales are related to them that discourage them from questioning these foundations. Whoever contravenes that is accused of Kufr (disbelief). If the (religious) leaders are asked to prove the truth of what they say they fly into a rage and spill the blood of one who demands that of them.

    Then came (a period of) long familiarity, the passing of time, acquaintance and deception of the people by the goat-bearded (clergy) who stand at the front of religious gatherings and shriek out lies and gibberish while around them the weak-minded men, women and children (listen) until it all roots itself deeply within the people and becomes a predisposition and habitual. (32)

    Then al Razi returns to his charge of contradictions in the "Holy" books as proof of their falsehood. For the contradiction of religions leads to contradiction of revealed books that brought them. He begins with the Torah and the Qur'an and the prophetic Hadith and what they contain of anthropomorphic and human-like qualities (of God). He mentions what is in the Torah of putting the fat on the fire so that the Lord can smell it's scent. Also how it depicts an image of an old man with white hair and beard. This human-like and anthropomorphic description contradicts impassive and impervious nature of God to things like smells etc... All this announces that God is constructed, fabricated, reacting to things like the rest of creation.

    Likewise Al Razi attacks Christianity and its claim of the existence of an uncreated ancient being by the side of God; the Messiah his son, which leads to associating a partner with God. Furthermore how can we reconcile his saying that he came to fulfill the the Torah with his abolishing its laws and changing it's rulings? Strangely, during his criticisms of Christianity, he did not mention - in the texts we have - the passages in the Qur'an about corruption of the Gospels. (33)

    Anthropomorphism and contradictions are not only limited to Judaism and Christianity but also envelop the the sayings of the prophet and the Qur'an... and that is exemplified by what is related from the prophet when he said" "I saw my Lord in the best of forms. He put his hand on my shoulders until I felt the cold of his fingertips on my chest." (34) and his saying "Beside the throne by the shoulder of Israfeel, and he will be groaning the groan of a young camel being saddled." (35) (NB: Israfeel is the angel who blows the trumpet twice on the day of judgment. Once to destroy everything and a second time to bring humans back to life and summon them for judgment.)

    It's also obvious that many of the verses of the Qur'an demonstrate anthropomorphism and no-one can deny that apart from the arrogant. For example His saying, mighty and glorified is he: "The Compassionate One is firmly established on the Throne." (20:5) and He also said: "And eight (angels) will carry the Throne of your Lord above them on that Day" (69:17) and His saying: "Those who carry the Throne and those around him..." (40:7) So how can this his make sense, be sound, correct in light of the fact that God is completely and utterly free from all the attributes of the profane as made clear in His - Most High - saying: "There is nothing whatever like unto Him..." (42.11)

    Likewise how can we reconcile verses about predestination with others about free-will? And perhaps al Razi borrowed these questions from the books of Theological Discourse as Abd al Rahman Badawi noted. (36)

    As for the view that these verses require "Esoteric Interpretation" (Ta'wil) in other words taking them to have a hidden meaning that is not the plain meaning of the words, that was of no interest to al Razi, he rejected it utterly and paid no regard to Ta'wil, not taking it seriously at all. Because Ta'wil in his opinion and the opinion of his like, was just interpolation and deceitful pretense - or in my own expression: "patching up" - the intent of which was to rescue the text, however one can, and give it an acceptable meaning. For al Razi and his like approached religions as it appeared plainly in it's texts and not as is it is (claimed to be) wrapped up in hidden meanings. (37)

    Al Razi criticised the Qur'an also on the basis of what it said that contradicted Christianity and Judaism. He said: "Indeed the Qur'an contradicts that which the Jews and Christians believe regarding the death of the Messiah - upon him be peace. Since the Jews and Christians say the Messiah was killed and crucified, but the Qur'an says he was not killed and not crucified and that God raised him up to himself." (38)

    Thus does al Razi use religions and divine books to undermine each other to arrive at the result that they are all false! Because the contradictions between them declares their falsehood in total as long as they claim that they come from the same divine source.

    After this attack on all religions Al Razi comments also, saying "Indeed, by God, we are amazed at what you say that the Qur'an is a miracle when it is full of contradictions. It is the narration of ancient myths, it has no benefit nor is it proof of anything." (39)

    And this is a view that is completely sound, for in the Qur'an are conundrums and riddles - ambiguities and mysteries, that the greatest scholars of Tafseer until today, haven't been able to arrive at any conclusive conclusions on. Despite all the ink they have spilled, and the efforts they spent in meaningless summations, tedious disputations, and nonsensical prattle with the sole obsession of rescuing a text that cannot be rescued except through sophistry, interpolation, prevarication, nonsense  and legends. (40)

    Just as the Qur'an challenged Mankind and Jinn to bring the like of it, likewise al Razi challenged the Arab Scholars of eloquence to bring the like of that which is in the book of "Elements" (by Euclid) or Almagest (by Ptolemy) and others. Al Razi says: "Indeed we demand from you the like of that which you claim we are not able to do," (41) and with this he threw the burden of proof back to the adversary. In other words with this challenge he showed that the proof itself must lie with the adversary (making the claim), since it is not within the ability of man to bring the same that another man has brought, no matter how great is his ability in copying and perfecting the art of imitation.

    Furthermore indeed these books and their like are more useful and of greater benefit than the Qur'an and all the divine books, because they contain knowledge that benefits people in their livelihoods and situations in the real world, while the Torah, Gospels and Qur'an benefit nothing. And if one must discuss Miraculousness and Proof then these useful books are more deserving of having such things ascribed to them. In this respect, al Razi says: "By Allah, if he wanted a book to be a Proof the books like the "Elements" or "Almagest" that lead to understanding of the movement of the stars and planets, or the books of logic, or the books of medicine that is of benefit to the body, would be more deserving of being (called) Proof than those (divine books) that are of no benefit or harm." (42) Meaning the Qur'an and it's like.

    In any case I am not the first to present criticism of the Qur'an. I cannot claim that honour. No! Nor will I be the last, for indeed my work here has precedence, but it differs from that which preceded it in respect of the method of treatment, and in respect of the level and terms and fields of knowledge. But it is the duty of the pioneer to always acknowledge those who blazed the trail and opened the way before them. As for the right of the one who went before upon the one who comes after, it is that no-one will deny him other than the arrogant fool. For if the one who comes after had not found assistance and clarification from the one who was before, things would not go right for him and he could not complete his intent, and his efforts would be futile and his aim confounded and thus is the blade blunted and the mind become dull and aspiration fails. "And those who went before are the foremost. They are the ones who will be drawn near." (56:10-11) (NB: There is of course irony in that quote from Qur'an.)

    ___________________________

    (27) Quote from the previous reference. p 127.

    (28) Quote from the previous reference. p 203.

    (29) Quote from the previous reference. p 217.

    (30) Quote from the previous reference. p 205.

    (31) Quote from the previous reference. p 208-211.

    (32) Quote from the previous reference. p 211-212.

    (33) Quote from the previous reference. p 213-214.

    (34) Quote from the previous reference. p 214. (الثَنْدَوَة is the flesh between the nipples.)

    (35) Quote from the previous reference. p 214.

    (36) Quote from the previous reference. p 218.

    (37) Quote from the previous reference. p 214-215.

    (38) Quote from the previous reference. p 215.

    (39) Quote from the previous reference. p 216 and 218 in two different versions.

    (40) Whoever wishes to compose an approximate picture - even if it is not precise -  of these prattlers and nonsense-talkers, then let him listen to the recordings of Sheikh Mutawali Sha'rawi, who's voice reverberates all over Arab radio. He explains the Qur'an with a sharp tongue that erupts like a flood that he uses to delight the masses and ignorant amongst the scholars, while the idiots sitting around him roar out the words: "Allah! Allah!" or "Allah is great! Allah is great!" and grow in zeal and impulsiveness. If they weren't in the mosque in a solemn religious gathering they would fill the world with shouts and clapping as they do at public rallies and I have complete confidence that they don't understand a thing that's going on. This is an example that is emulated by the ignorant amongst the scholars and the religious teachers and preachers and Imams of mosques and the rest of this type.  He (Sha'rawi) is regarded by his followers and admirers, to be amongst the greatest (scholars) of Tafseer in this day and age - even a unique phenomenon amongst the phenomena of this age. He is even considered by his pupils to be amongst those who the prophet alluded to in the famous hadith: "Indeed God will send to this Ummah (Nation) at the beginning of every 100 years he who will renew/reestablish their religion for them!"

    (41) Quote from the previous reference, p 218.

    (42) Quote from the previous reference, p 219.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #160 - February 04, 2016, 08:17 PM

    Could an Admin please now delete the partial translation in the first post and replace it with the final one here:

    https://www.academia.edu/21461211/_My_Ordeal_with_the_Quran_and_God_in_the_Quran._By_Abbas_Abdul_Noor

    By all means download it and host it here.

    Thanks <3
  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #161 - February 07, 2016, 11:48 AM

    Could an Admin please now delete the partial translation in the first post and replace it with the final one here:

    https://www.academia.edu/21461211/_My_Ordeal_with_the_Quran_and_God_in_the_Quran._By_Abbas_Abdul_Noor

    By all means download it and host it here.

    Thanks <3


    This thread is only intended for translators as a folder to add their translated texts to.
    Nothing else is allowed here.

    For discussions and comments please use the original thread, that started everything off.

    Links:

    My_Ordeal_With_The_Quran-en-latest.pdf (Always the latest version of the PDF file)

    My_Ordeal_With_The_Quran.tex (Used to generate the PDF file)

    Found a mistake you want to me to correct?

    Folder with project related files.


    TODO: Somebody should make a list of links to all the pieces Hassan has already translated in the other thread.

  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #162 - February 07, 2016, 02:23 PM

    ha!.. you guys deleted many angry posts fro this folder...

    Could an Admin please now delete the partial translation in the first post and replace it with the final one here:

    https://www.academia.edu/21461211/_My_Ordeal_with_the_Quran_and_God_in_the_Quran._By_Abbas_Abdul_Noor

    By all means download it and host it here.

    Thanks <3  


    Hassan My friend .. so the product is finished ..baby is out... and it is going to roam freely around the globe...  for that which kingdom would you prefer to take from me??




    Pick it up from picture ....   lol... WHAT IS NEXT?

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #163 - February 09, 2016, 06:14 PM

    lol
  • My Ordeal With The Quran - Actual Translation
     Reply #164 - February 09, 2016, 06:15 PM

    Quote from "My Ordeal with the Qur'an..."

    "Let me ask a question: has God ever put out a fire? Saved the drowning? Cured the sick? Fed the starving? Halted disease? Averted disaster? Direct me to one instance where God has done anything? Any example where God was involved? If not, then all that is in Heaven and Earth, and the stars and planets, all of its perfection, order, and beauty do not amount to one tear trickling down the cheek of a mother holding her dying child."

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