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 Topic: French parliament approves ban on face veils

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  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #30 - July 14, 2010, 01:53 AM
    Nah, just got shit I need to do, so I gotta quit the drug den known as CEMB cold turkey for a couple of weeks to keep productive in the real world.
    fuck you
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #31 - July 14, 2010, 02:51 AM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on July 13, 2010, 06:39 PM
    Yeah , ban turbans on motor bikes too. And Halal butchery - it's inhumane. And anything else that tries to roll back all the rational laws and mores our society fought for for so long  to reach to improve our lives and customs and humanity.

    Turbans do not cover the face. Hijabs do not cover the face. Helmets do not cover the face. Niqab and burqa cover the face. That is the difference. How do you communicate with a woman (or a man for that matter) who covers her face? How would I communicate with her if she is working in a government office? My rights are being violated by a woman who conceals her face. Muslims are offended by a picture of little piggy in a book for children. Similarly, I am offended by a Muslim woman who covers her face with a niqab or burqa.
    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #32 - July 14, 2010, 03:37 AM
    Quote from: Ram on July 14, 2010, 02:51 AM
    Muslims are offended by a picture of little piggy in a book for children. Similarly, I am offended by a Muslim woman who covers her face with a niqab or burqa.


    It is fine to be offended. Whether it is you offended by the covering of Muslim women or Muslims offended by pigs but that does not mean people then have the right to violate someone else's freedom of expression and choice

    I believe this is violation of the rights of people with this ruling. It infringes upon freedom of expression and religion.
    There are already laws in France and in Europe against harassment, violence, domestic abuse etc. that is more than enough to deal with cases where females are being forced.

    Your "right" does not supersede theirs.
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #33 - July 14, 2010, 04:34 AM
    I can communicate to someone better through looking at their mouth and their facial expressions than just their blinking eyes. As someone who never grew up around the burqa, I just find it very awkward and almost anti-social.

    I can understand why people are against the ban, but in the long-run, people veiling themselves off from society in the name of tolerance will not positively integrate people. It will further the stereotypes amongst non-Muslims and it will further the problems in integrating people when people wear something that is so obviously uncharacteristic of integration. For this, I support the ban on the burqa just because I think it has the potential to do much more good in the long run for Muslims and non-Muslims alike.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #34 - July 14, 2010, 08:53 AM
    Quote from: Mr X on July 13, 2010, 07:00 PM
    Don't cover your face though.  Cause i don't know if you're a friend or foe, i can emphasise  with you, i can't see what you're thinking, or if you will harm me.


    No you can't.  

    In some cases you can see if an individual is in an aggressive mood and might attack you, but quite a lot of attacks on strangers don't involve aggressive behaviour before hand.  I've seen a lot of instances (on TV police shows etc) where someone will walk past a complete stranger and then sucker punch from the side, or attack from behind.

    I doubt you experience many cases of false negative identifications with Muslim women in Burqas, exposing you to risk, do you?  So they aren't a problem with relation to violent attacks on strangers in the street.

    If you are worried about random violent attacks then the only safe option is too many false positives identifications, they cost very little whereas false negative identifications can cost highly.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #35 - July 14, 2010, 09:26 AM
    Quote from: Ram on July 14, 2010, 02:51 AM
    Turbans do not cover the face. Hijabs do not cover the face. Helmets do not cover the face. Niqab and burqa cover the face. That is the difference. How do you communicate with a woman (or a man for that matter) who covers her face? How would I communicate with her if she is working in a government office? My rights are being violated by a woman who conceals her face. Muslims are offended by a picture of little piggy in a book for children. Similarly, I am offended by a Muslim woman who covers her face with a niqab or burqa.


    This point keeps being raised again and again. I think that if I would have a problem talking to a niqaabi, it would be because she has some really weird and restrictive beliefs over how a woman is supposed to communicate with a man who is a stranger to her. She has those beliefs because of what she learnt at Qur'an class, not because she is wearing a veil. Otherwise, I wouldn't have a problem communicating with a woman wearing a niqaab. Seeing facial expression may help I guess but not much. We can all communicate rather well over this forum, can't we? But we can't see each other's facial expressions. Okay, so we use emoticons, but using them isn't compulsory now, is it?  Tongue
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #36 - July 14, 2010, 09:50 AM
    Quote from: Q-Man on July 13, 2010, 08:29 PM
    You don't get it. I said it was the same mentality, and given your Puritanical anti-smoking zeal, your position on this and failure to get what I was saying is not at all surprising.

    Same sob stories were used to pass the Prohibition of alcohol, then drug prohibition, then gun bans, then bans on civilians carrying any kinds of concealed weapons for self-defense. They were used to argue for censorship of certain music.

    Whenever people demand the state ban this or that personal behavior its always the same damn story. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    If people make bad decisions about how they treat their own body that lead to negative consequences for them and their families, well, that's too bad, but it's not the state's role to coerce them into making good decisions-- that is an unjust and illegitimate exercise of authority over the individual by the state, a violation of that individuals rights and personal autonomy.

    No even remotely the same thing. For one thing if you want to grow a goatee in the Army you can't do that either. We're talking about what civilians are forced to do by the state.

    If that's even true-- and I don't know that it is-- there's a difference between cutting your wrists and someone severing your carotid artery, jugular vein and spinal column. The former takes a while and the latter is almost instantaneous.

    There may be. Try searching for it. My guess is the majority here would oppose a general ban would support limited bans for security purposes, based on previous discussions of the topic.

    Gotta love animal rights activist logic.

    You don't appear to have much empathy with Humanity. Maybe it will come in time, through personal tragedy, observing the shattered lives left behind or perhaps the penny will just drop one day. I was tempted, from your posts, to see you as an arrogant narcissist but I think maybe it's just that the obvious inexperience of dealing with wider issues has not matured you yet.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #37 - July 14, 2010, 09:56 AM
    Iblis already made a poll:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=9079.0

    The question is: Should niqaab/burka be allowed, partially banned or completely banned?
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #38 - July 14, 2010, 11:32 AM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on July 14, 2010, 08:53 AM
    No you can't.  

    In some cases you can see if an individual is in an aggressive mood and might attack you, but quite a lot of attacks on strangers don't involve aggressive behaviour before hand.  I've seen a lot of instances (on TV police shows etc) where someone will walk past a complete stranger and then sucker punch from the side, or attack from behind.

    I doubt you experience many cases of false negative identifications with Muslim women in Burqas, exposing you to risk, do you?  So they aren't a problem with relation to violent attacks on strangers in the street.

    If you are worried about random violent attacks then the only safe option is too many false positives identifications, they cost very little whereas false negative identifications can cost highly.




    what the fuck are you on about? What's your evidence on how and the motives behind aggressive behaviour? from tv shows?!?!? lol. The primal response from your limbic system is fear to someone covering their face, whether it be niqab, motorcycle helmet, balaclava, hoodie, klu lux klan pointy hat, ninja or  burns victim. Do i fear being attacked by women wearing a full face covering? no, Do i understand everyone else primal fear based on it? yes.

    With the  face and eyes, in a spilt second you can get the information you need. you interact, whether its just passing someone down in the street or having a conversation with them. The things about banks, and getting ID'd and what not is reasonable and common sense.

    You want assert your faith, and modesty, fine, wear the dress, apart from the face. ( If you really wanted to be shapeless you'd wear a inflatable sumo outfit under that)

    where i live in east london, i see little 3 year olds in head scarf and grown women in the full burqa and niqab. It wasn't like this before, in my opinion it's brought about a change in mentality and the social environment for the worse. It's divisive, it separates people from the wider community and honestly i hope this does go through parliament, although sadly i don't think mps, have the stomach to put this thorough.
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #39 - July 14, 2010, 12:27 PM
    Quote from: Unechance on July 14, 2010, 04:34 AM
    For this, I support the ban on the burqa just because I think it has the potential to do much more good in the long run for Muslims and non-Muslims alike.


    Hear, hear!

    I think there are very good reasons for the ban, and I support it and hope we have it here in the UK.

    Yes, women are losing a bit of liberty in how they dress.

    However, there is an underlying dimension that really makes me support this ban: the current system of freedom and liberties in the UK (in my view) do not cater/fit the influx of the vast immigration (and hence mentality/memes) that otherwise would not enter into society since much of that society fought hard for it to be where it is. Moreover, women need not be oppressed and cause division within society. Times should adapt to address the issue of the lack of integration and what is causing it. Part of me has some hesitancy, no doubt, but overall, I think it is needed. In anycase, such a law can be rollbacked.
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #40 - July 14, 2010, 12:37 PM
    It's not divisive it's just a piece of cloth you wear over your face...

    I'm finding it really disturbing how so many people here want to ban the burka. The real reason people here are against it is because they think Islam is bullshit, and since niqaabis are wearing the veil for religious reasons then you think they shouldn't do that. Look you can debate with a Muslim and challenge their beliefs if you want to but ultimately you can't make their mind up for them. If they want to wear the veil, let them. It's not harming anybody.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #41 - July 14, 2010, 01:01 PM
    Quote from: Ram on July 14, 2010, 02:51 AM
    How do you communicate with a woman (or a man for that matter) who covers her face?


    How do you communicate with someone if you can't see their face asks the man on the internet discussion forum.  Roll Eyes

    Quote from: sojournerlumus on July 14, 2010, 09:50 AM
    You don't appear to have much empathy with Humanity. Maybe it will come in time, through personal tragedy, observing the shattered lives left behind or perhaps the penny will just drop one day. I was tempted, from your posts, to see you as an arrogant narcissist but I think maybe it's just that the obvious inexperience of dealing with wider issues has not matured you yet.


    That's not a legit response, it's a purely ad-hominem argument and appeal to emotion, which only reinforces the point I was making. Let me respond with my own-- you don't appear to have much respect for people being free to exercise personal sovereignty and to make choices for themselves, even when those choices are bad.

    Oh, and I am an arrogant narcissist, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic we were discussing.

    Quote from: Unechance on July 14, 2010, 04:34 AM
    For this, I support the ban on the burqa just because I think it has the potential to do much more good in the long run for Muslims and non-Muslims alike.


    Quote from: HighOctane on July 14, 2010, 12:27 PM
    Hear, hear!

    I think there are very good reasons for the ban, and I support it and hope we have it here in the UK.

    Yes, women are losing a bit of liberty in how they dress.

    However, there is an underlying dimension that really makes me support this ban: the current system of freedom and liberties in the UK (in my view) do not cater/fit the influx of the vast immigration (and hence mentality/memes) that otherwise would not enter into society since much of that society fought hard for it to be where it is. Moreover, women need not be oppressed and cause division within society. Times should adapt to address the issue of the lack of integration and what is causing it. Part of me has some hesitancy, no doubt, but overall, I think it is needed.


    Restricting liberty in the name of the "greater good" is the path to tyranny-- and it's the mentality that's led to the current condition the UK is in that you all are bitching about. Not at all surprised that HighOctane and sojournerlumus are supporting this kind of statist, authoritarian mentality, but a little surprised Unechance is.

    Quote
    In anycase, such a law can be rollbacked.


     Cheesy You wanna do a comparison of how many laws have been enacted in the UK restricting personal freedom in the last 20 years versus how many have been repealed? The Pollyanna trust you statists have in the government to responsibly limit the exercise of its own powers always cracks me up.

    fuck you
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #42 - July 14, 2010, 01:03 PM
    A piece of cloth you wear over your face is divisive


    I don't want to ban the burqa, i want to ban the veil. there's no religious reason to wear this.

    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #43 - July 14, 2010, 01:04 PM
    Freedoms should have their limits in any society. There are important points on both sides but I'm all for educating women that the burkha/niquab is not going to be their ticket to paradise.

    You can't walk around the place naked, even if you think you should have the freedom to do so, or some religious belief tells you you have to circumabulate around the town square in your birthday suit.

    Limits to freedoms are necessary. If a society needs faces to be visible for whatever reasons - crime, integration, interaction, women's subjugation, etc then the society should be strong enough to stand their ground. Islamic societies have their laws. If a non Muslim goes to Saudi Arabia and holds hands with his boyfriend in public let alone kiss or a woman does not cover her head, they would be arrested.

    If you want to live in the country you should abide by the laws the poeple of that country have fought for for centuries to implement and the values they want to uphold.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #44 - July 14, 2010, 01:08 PM
    Quote from: Mr X on July 14, 2010, 01:03 PM
    i want to ban the veil. there's no religious reason to wear this.


    No religious reason? So why do you think only devoutly religious people wear it? Where in scripture have you come to the conclusion the verses concerning the veil have been abrogated?
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #45 - July 14, 2010, 01:09 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on July 14, 2010, 01:04 PM
    Freedoms should have their limits in any society. There are important points on both sides but I'm all for educating women that the burkha/niquab is not going to be their ticket to paradise.

    You can't walk around the place naked, even if you think you should have the freedom to do so, or some religious belief tells you you have to circumabulate around the town square in your birthday suit.

    Limits to freedoms are necessary. If a society needs faces to be visible for whatever reasons - crime, integration, interaction, women's subjugation, etc then the society should be strong enough to stand their ground. Islamic societies have their laws. If a non Muslim goes to Saudi Arabia and holds hands with his boyfriend in public let alone kiss or a woman does not cover her head, they would be arrested.

    If you want to live in the country you should abide by the laws the poeple of that country have fought for for centuries to implement and the values they want to uphold.

    well said ghazali
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #46 - July 14, 2010, 01:09 PM
    Quote from: Mr X on July 14, 2010, 01:03 PM
    A piece of cloth you wear over your face is divisive


    When you say divisive do you mean different? If so, then so what? If not, then how is it divisive?


    Quote
    I don't want to ban the burqa, i want to ban the veil. there's no religious reason to wear this.




    Again, that's your opinion. Women who wear the niqaab think they're wearing it for religious reasons. You can challenge their belief if you want, and try to convince them that the niqaab isn't a religious requirement but in the end it's their decision and if they want to wear the niqaab because they think it is a religious requirement you have no right to stop them.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #47 - July 14, 2010, 01:13 PM
    Quote from: J4m3z on July 14, 2010, 12:37 PM
    It's not divisive it's just a piece of cloth you wear over your face...

    I'm finding it really disturbing how so many people here want to ban the burka. The real reason people here are against it is because they think Islam is bullshit, and since niqaabis are wearing the veil for religious reasons then you think they shouldn't do that. Look you can debate with a Muslim and challenge their beliefs if you want to but ultimately you can't make their mind up for them. If they want to wear the veil, let them. It's not harming anybody.


    Bingo. I hate it (the burqa) and don't see it as potentially harming anything by being banned... (and i see High-Octane's point) yet I don't agree with the ban.
    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #48 - July 14, 2010, 01:14 PM
    no i dont mean different i mean divisive as to separate one group from another, so divisive in fact that government want to ban it.

    Its not my opinion it's a fact. there is no religious reason to wear this.
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #49 - July 14, 2010, 01:19 PM
    i think the issue has been muddied by people interchanging burqa with the face veil. Maybe i'm guilty of this also.

    My understanding is the burqa covers everything but the face, the veil/ niqab covers the face.

    I see no reason to ban the burqa ( as catchy a slogan as that maybe), covering the fact though i'm all for that banning.
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #50 - July 14, 2010, 01:22 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on July 14, 2010, 01:04 PM
    Freedoms should have their limits in any society. There are important points on both sides but I'm all for educating women that the burkha/niquab is not going to be their ticket to paradise.


    If you want to go out and try and convince Muslim women that they shouldn't wear the burka, then be my guest. But there is no reason why the state should get involved in either banning or even trying to discourage women from wearing the veil. And anyway, banning seems anti-educational. Banning it is the equivalent of "we've done the thinking for you so you don't have to".

    Quote
    You can't walk around the place naked, even if you think you should have the freedom to do so, or some religious belief tells you you have to circumabulate around the town square in your birthday suit.


    I'm sorry but you're going to have to do better than "you can't walk around naked, therefore you shouldn't be able to wear the veil". That doesn't follow at all.

    Quote
    Limits to freedoms are necessary. If a society needs faces to be visible for whatever reasons - crime, integration, interaction, women's subjugation, etc then the society should be strong enough to stand their ground. Islamic societies have their laws. If a non Muslim goes to Saudi Arabia and holds hands with his boyfriend in public let alone kiss or a woman does not cover her head, they would be arrested.

    If you want to live in the country you should abide by the laws the poeple of that country have fought for for centuries to implement and the values they want to uphold.


    I constitute the people of this country and I say no to banning the veil. And since when did my ancestors fight to ban the veil?
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #51 - July 14, 2010, 01:26 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on July 14, 2010, 01:04 PM
    Freedoms should have their limits in any society.


    Only insofar as they directly and immediately infringe upon the freedoms of others-- I'm all for improving resources for women who are being coerced into wearing this bullshit by their families and want to escape, but the state doesn't have a right to tell a woman who actually wants to wear it that she can't.

    Quote
    There are important points on both sides but I'm all for educating women that the burkha/niquab is not going to be their ticket to paradise.


    How does a government ban do that?

    Quote
    You can't walk around the place naked, even if you think you should have the freedom to do so, or some religious belief tells you you have to circumabulate around the town square in your birthday suit.


    I actually had a discussion with Iraqi Atheist on a similar topic. Here's the link if you care to read it: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=10321.0

    Quote
    Islamic societies have their laws. If a non Muslim goes to Saudi Arabia and holds hands with his boyfriend in public let alone kiss or a woman does not cover her head, they would be arrested.

    If you want to live in the country you should abide by the laws the poeple of that country have fought for for centuries to implement and the values they want to uphold.


    I know you haven't been around much lately a.ghazali, but this kind of argument has been made here many times to attempt to justify restriction of people's religious liberties and it has been refuted many times as a tu quoque argument-- basically that Muslim countries restrict liberty does not justify restricting the liberty of Muslims in the West.

    Quote from: Mr X on July 14, 2010, 01:14 PM
    Its not my opinion it's a fact. there is no religious reason to wear this.


    Religion is superstitious bullshit, we can all agree on this. Because it is, it's ridiculous to assert that religious belief and dogma is in any way objective, which is what you are doing-- all such belief is subjective, and therefore the only thing that matters is a person's subjective religious belief. You could start a new religion tomorrow called The Church of the Holy Burqua where men and women are expected to all walk around in beekeeper suits-- the only thing that matters is what you and your followers believe, not what some shit written down in the 7th century says.

    fuck you
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #52 - July 14, 2010, 01:27 PM
    Quote from: Mr X on July 14, 2010, 01:14 PM
    no i dont mean different i mean divisive as to separate one group from another, so divisive in fact that government want to ban it.


    I fail to see how banning the niqaab will result in more social cohesion whatsoever. If you believe the niqaab should be banned for this reason alone, then maybe you should want to ban the hijaab too. Afterall I get along with about the same number of hijaabis and niqaabis: zero.

    Quote
    Its not my opinion it's a fact. there is no religious reason to wear this.


    So you want the state to make sure everybody is following their religion correctly?
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #53 - July 14, 2010, 01:30 PM
    Quote from: Mr X on July 14, 2010, 01:14 PM
    Its not my opinion it's a fact. there is no religious reason to wear this.


    A fact? Scripture does not support your 'fact':

    -------

    The veiling of women was introduced by Muhammad as noted in Sahih Muslim 26:5397 Sauda, went during one night to relieve herself. 'Umar called her saying: "Sauda, we recognise you." It was then that Allah revealed the verses {in the Qur’an} pertaining to veil.

    A woman is not to be recognised outside her house. Umar pointed this out to Muhammad and Allah subsequently made the necessary Qur'anic revelation. Moderate Muslims today, claim that the Qur'an states nothing about wearing garments such as the niqab / burka which covers the entire body excluding the hands. However Q24:31 clearly state that Muslim women must draw their veils down to their bosoms hiding all their beauty. This implies covering the face and neck.

    Q24:31 And say to the believing women... that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except those which is apparent; that they should draw their head-coverings over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.

    Apologists misrepresent this with the claim that the verse means a woman should cover her bosoms. However the verse continues by stating that this stipulation does not apply to a woman's husband, her father, husband's fathers, sons, slaves or eunuchs. If the verse simply stipulated the covering of the bosoms, then it would imply that Muslim women are allowed to walk around bare-chested in the presence of their father, father-in-law, sons, brothers, slaves, etc.

    This is obviously not the case and hence the true interpretation of the verse as it is clearly written and based on the cause of its revelation as provided in SM 26:5397 is that a Muslim woman has to, with the exception of her closest relatives, cover her face with her head veil which should extend down to her bosom. The verse also goes on to say that the believing women should not walk too loudly so as to draw attention to themselves by the rattling of their ornaments.

    Later in the Qur'an women are commanded to cast their garments covering their persons so that they cannot be recognised and hence harassed. Being told to draw your outer garments around yourself so that you cannot be known is surely a case for the Burqa.

    Q33:59 Tell thy wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they should cast their outer garments over their persons; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble;

    -------------

    Taken from http://sites.google.com/site/islamicscripturesunveiled/
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #54 - July 14, 2010, 01:39 PM
    Quote
    I fail to see how banning the niqaab will result in more social cohesion whatsoever.

    that's ok, i'm not hear to correct your failures

    Quote
    If you believe the niqaab should be banned for this reason alone, then maybe you should want to ban the hijaab too....


    I've already stated serveral times in this thread, no to covering your face, everything else is a matter of personal perference. Maybe you should actually read what im wrting as opposed to making up questions that you'd think i'd like to ask.

    Quote
    So you want the state to make sure everybody is following their religion correctly?


    I didnt say that, I didn't allude to that, again, would it be easier to debate yourself? that way you can write your own questions and answer with greater clarity.
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #55 - July 14, 2010, 01:42 PM
    Is all this liberating for a woman? Huh? Huh?


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #56 - July 14, 2010, 01:46 PM
    my mistake.

    my confusion comes from Muslim friends have told me that there is no compulsion to wear this as Muslim women. I'll tell them to cover up immediately.
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #57 - July 14, 2010, 01:50 PM
    Veils are incompatible with our way of life, it's as simple as that. How am I supposed to communicate with someone if I can't see their face properly? It's like talking to someone on the telephone whilst standing right in front of them, how is it even possible? Furthermore, veils are offensive to me (and my limbic system finds them disagreeable), much like people with an excess of piercings / tattoos disguising their features. They are also a symbol of political Islamism and anyone found wearing one should be dealt the same fate as those found wearing Che Guevara t-shirts. Veiled women can fail to integrate just as well in their houses as out in public, except that I won't have to deal with them anymore. Out of sight, out of mind!

    I just hope the state can protect us from the immigrant memeplex which threatens to destroy our fragile civilisation. Time to wise up, people - our way of life is under threat from the hordes at the gate. Only the government can protect us from the faceless islamic drones.

    pccoffee
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #58 - July 14, 2010, 01:52 PM
     Afro
    fuck you
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #59 - July 14, 2010, 01:56 PM
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
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