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 Topic: French parliament approves ban on face veils

 (Read 28958 times)
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  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #210 - July 16, 2010, 01:15 AM

    you first.

    You make the choice yourself yes, what of the person who inhales your secondhand smoke? Why should you as a smoker have the right to curtail theirs? You take the option to risk cancer which is entirely your right, why should bar staff who don't smoke be forced to inhale your smoke? They have as much right as you do to work in a safe enviroment to do their job as you would in yours.


    What part of 'If there is a market. Businesses will respond and set up and cater to that audience' is difficult to understand?
    All that is needed is market and not for the State to butt its head in again and expand to disgusting levels infringing on businesses rights.

    Quote
    To look across the world and say hey that solution worked there it's going to work here is  hammering a square peg to fit a round hole and naive



    Oh good lord.
    You really are not reading my posts are you?
    England has a history with guns. The US constitution has part of its influence from the Magna Carta and English law. For hundreds of years the legalisation has been in place, it has only been recently that those rights have been curtailed.
    I have little need to look elsewhere when I can just as well look at my countries own history.

    But here, once again. Let me do your work for you and google that for you.  

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #211 - July 16, 2010, 01:23 AM

    It's evident that you aren't reading my posts. To be frank this it's boring me and gone off topic from the veil story which i was infinitely more interested in.

    enjoy your guns and cigarettes.  smoke'em if you got 'em
    ( or allowed to Tongue)

    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #212 - July 16, 2010, 01:23 AM

    How we have gone onto guns I have no idea.
    But on the topic of the veil.
    I am still absolutely gob smacked that people believe oppression is 'freedom' or 'liberation'.

    Everyone has the right to wear what they wish and the right to express what they see is their religion however they choose to. The only threat I see to society is not the Muslims but the fascists who are always a threat to any free society.

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #213 - July 16, 2010, 01:24 AM

    It's evident that you aren't reading my posts. To be frank this it's boring me and gone off topic from the veil story which i was infinitely more interested in.

    enjoy your guns and cigarettes.  smoke'em if you got 'em
    ( or allowed to Tongue)


    Hah.
    You got in there before me.
    I wrote I was getting bored of the discussion about a second after you did.

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #214 - July 16, 2010, 01:26 AM

    Because you say so, right? The majority says so, so she's gotta do it-- kinda like how the majority in Saudi Arabia say they must cover up this or that.

    The difference between Western "liberal democratic" authoritarians like you and the Islamists may be great, but it is still only a matter of degrees. You both oppose freedom, the only question is to what extent. Fucking hypocrites.

    Woman can wear what she wants. She can cover herself with dark colour attire from her toes to her head. She can even cover her hands and NOT show a millimeter of her skin, that's fine. Only thing we are asking her show her face in public. That's not unreasonable.

    In Quebec, the law (not yet passed) says that woman should not cover her face if she wants to work in a public institution like a government office or a bank etc. She cannot walk around in a hospital with her face covered. If you let them, they will start asking for a female doctor, they will ask for special female only wards. That will make life very difficult for the rest of us. Wearing niqab is one of the ways of imposing their ideology on us.

    Nobody is stopping her from finding a private doctor. She is free to cover her face on the street. She can cover her face in a private school but not in a school which is for everybody. You have to deal with this problem now, before it gets too big.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #215 - July 16, 2010, 08:37 AM

    A cafe or restaurant like a pub is a business, and like any business they are there to maximise thier profits, to that end any smart business recognises the need to cater for all their clientèle, smoking and non smoking alike.

    Good reasoning. Since the majority of people are non-smokers the majority of pubs/restaurants/cafes will have to be non-smoking. Because they will lose clientele if the don't respond to the demand. Basic economics.


    If your mum and sister go to a restaurant and sit in the non smoking section the business is happy that he has some customers, your mother and sister are comfortable that they can eat thier meal with out the smell of cigarette smoke.

    My mum and sister would still be able to eat their meal without the smell of cigarette smoke if we implemented a quota system. So your point is moot.


    You and your dad go out and smoke becasue you wish to repect the rights of your mother not to inhale smoke. extend those right to your fellow man.

    We already extend this courtesy to anyone. We suck it up. I would never smoke in a non-smoking bar even if I knew I wouldn't get fined for it. Which is why I'm arguing to allowing smoking in 1 out of every 2/3 restaurants.


    Got That?

    I got it but it wasn't a response. You didn't refute my points.


    No pub has complete discretion for anyone to come in.

    They should except for those under the legal age of drinking.


    The police can prevent football supporters from entering premises if they feel it can lead to a flashpoint.

    Doesn't make it right.


    The state in the uk bans under 18 year olds from consuming alcohol.

    That's different. Those under 18 not only can't drink at a pub they also can't purchase alcohol.


    Your fairytale of a business operating without any intervention is a delusion

    To you, it is.


    I actually lol'd at  this because it perfectly encapsulates the absurdity and stupidity of your  argument in a nutshell

    Go ahead and laugh. If anything, your response encapsulates your inability to comprehend the meaning of private property.
    Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property


    There is no total ban you seem to completely oblivious to this or unable to comprehend this i'm not sure if the cause is an extra chromosome or not, for the umpteenth time can smoke inside if it has the facilities

    There is a ban "in all enclosed public places".  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_ban_in_England
    More importantly, this isn't right. If the pub's proprietor wants to allow a bunch of adults smoke in a poorly-ventilated area on his private premises, they should be allowed to.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #216 - July 16, 2010, 09:30 AM

    There is no total ban you seem to completely oblivious to this or unable to comprehend this i'm not sure if the cause is an extra chromosome or not, for the umpteenth time can smoke inside if it has the facilities


    You don't have the extra chromosome? Condolences for your disability.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #217 - July 16, 2010, 10:44 AM

    Heavens! We sure have authoritarians in this forum. Empty Braggadocio!

    You kneel and kiss the boots of the state. Have you no backbone? Assailers of freedom. If freedom rested in the palms of your hands you would wring its neck like a chicken. The Freedom Chicken would run in circles looking for a protector in the court-yard of barbarism and then exhausted it will collapse. Alas alas!
     
    We have young members; bless them, who are holders of light and truth. Illuminating the dark passages of life. Bless you children. The future is brighter.

    As for the ban. Personal freedom has been infringed. Men with shoulder pads sit behind mahogany desks stirring up a storms of arbitrary rules and regulations while fantasizing about their secretaries. Bah humbug! No indeed!

    Women even when chaining themselves are doing so thanks to the liberties that my sisters (and indeed brothers IN THIS CASE) have fought and died for.

    I wish to burn the niqab and watch its ashes fly into sky. But I will not impose my personal taste on another free spirit.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #218 - July 16, 2010, 10:55 AM



    Quote
    A French property tycoon enraged at his government's plans to ban women from wearing the full veil in public has promised a fund of €1m (£830,000) to help any Muslim who is fined for wearing the niqab in the street.

    Rachid Nekkaz, a businessman of Algerian origin who launched a short-lived campaign in the 2007 presidential elections, has already put €200,000 into a bank account aimed at bailing out women who find themselves on the wrong side of the new law.

    He insists that the ban, which was approved by the lower house of parliament on Tuesday and is set to be ratified by the senate in September, is "anti-constitutional" and a move that could put France on a slippery slope towards greater intolerance.

    While he has no problem – like most of the French population – with an idea initially mooted by MPs of banning the full veil in state areas such as town halls and post offices, he is vehemently against a law that applies to women simply walking down the street.

    "I am very, very sensitive to when people start playing around with institutions and the constitution. I was not shocked by the idea of a ban in public services; I am a [French] republican. But when I saw the president – the guarantor of the constitution – announcing a ban in the street I said to myself, 'this is serious'".

    Nekkaz, who says his fund received €36,000 in donations in the 24 hours following its announcement and hopes it will reach €1m by September, is selling properties in the Parisian suburbs to keep the money coming in.

    Under the planned law, any woman found wearing a face-covering veil anywhere in public faces a possible fine of €150 as well, potentially, as a course in "citizenship". However, if she has been fined for wearing the garment in the street, she will be able to pay the charge from Nekkaz's fund. The law, he hopes, will be made "inapplicable".

    "I think this would never happen in the United States or the United Kingdom … France is a country which is not scared to compromise its principles," he said.

    Nekkaz, a Muslim, is not the only one to have raised concerns about the viability of the law, due to come into full effect by spring next year. France's constitutional watchdog has twice warned that it could be found to infringe personal freedoms.

    I like that guy ., I think Saudi Govt should come up with another plan, "Whoever walks in Burkha will get that fine + another 100$

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #219 - July 16, 2010, 11:47 AM

    I think Saudi Govt should come up with another plan, "Whoever walks in Burkha will get that fine + another 100$


    Now that would really finish off that law for good! Would be ace if it happens!

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #220 - July 16, 2010, 12:09 PM

    actually in that case if the saudis do a shit like that all non muslim people should start wearing burqas each time they pass near a police station... in a few years time Saudi Arabia will be bankrupt...

    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #221 - July 16, 2010, 09:06 PM

    there is a loophole in the existing law
    businesses CAN be discriminatory
    as long as they are up front about it in their application/job description
    ie. you can't sue for wrongful discrimination
    if the employer expects you to have/do this this and this
    yet you must not have/do that that or that

    Sex booze and rock&roll
    you know
    the finer things in life
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #222 - July 18, 2010, 06:04 AM

    idea from another topic
    ...
    the possibilities of allowing face veils
    makes up some important documents
    put on a niqab... or whatever
    and go to work as a gynecologist

    see how long it takes for the shit to hit the fan  eddie

    Sex booze and rock&roll
    you know
    the finer things in life
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #223 - July 18, 2010, 09:18 AM

    @ IA: Your av. doesn't annoy me in the slightest -but I do know how to annoy you now. Never let an opponent know how you think.
      PS  You can keep the coffin nails but the whiskey's mine.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #224 - July 18, 2010, 09:23 AM

    @ IA: Your av. doesn't annoy me in the slightest -but I do know how to annoy you now. Never let an opponent know how you think.
      PS  You can keep the coffin nails but the whiskey's mine.

    You're not my "opponent". I'm not here to score points or win anything.   Smiley
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #225 - July 18, 2010, 03:49 PM

    I agree with a ban on wearing a burqa/niqab in certain settings, more for the sake of public safety as well as the right of identification of individuals that access goods and services (ie. everyone). Necessary for even the most mundane of tasks but to also avoid cases like the two sydney men who, dressed in a burqa, robbed a cash courier in sydney earlier this year.

    http://www.canadaeast.com/rss/article/1040969

    I'm not sure what others here thik of Christopher Hitchens, but I found myself agreeing with him re the niqab. I understand perfectly well uch of this talk of banning the niqab come from bigots in the far right of politics....but the argument as presented here is rather persuasive.

    Quote
    Let me ask a simple question to the pseudoliberals who take a soft line on the veil and the burqa. What about the Ku Klux Klan? Notorious for its hooded style and its reactionary history, this gang is and always was dedicated to upholding Protestant and Anglo-Saxon purity. I do not deny the right of the KKK to take this faith-based view, which is protected by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. I might even go so far as to say that, at a rally protected by police, they could lawfully hide their nasty faces. But I am not going to have a hooded man or woman teach my children, or push their way into the bank ahead of me, or drive my taxi or bus, and there will never be a law that says I have to.

    There are lesser objections to the covered face or the all-covering cloak. The latter has often been used by male criminals—not just religious terrorists but common thugs—to conceal themselves and make an escape. It has also been used to conceal horrible injuries inflicted on abused females. It is incompatible—because of its effect on peripheral vision—with activities such as driving a car or negotiating traffic. This removes it from the sphere of private decision-making and makes it a danger to others, as well as an offense to the ordinary democratic civility that depends on phrases like "Nice to see you."


    http://www.slate.com/id/2253493

    I think people are quick to talk about their own rights....but forget that they ought not to come at the expense of the rights of others, like the right to identify you.

  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #226 - July 18, 2010, 06:30 PM

    I have no problem with limitations on things like airports, banks where it is necessary to be able to identify for logistical reasons.

    But no one has the right to identify me in public streets if I choose to not let myself be seen.

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #227 - July 19, 2010, 12:47 AM

    I mentioned this a few days ago...

    You know how we had a Draw Muhammad day?  I think we should have a "Wear A Balaclava Day" too just to see if the burka defenders feel comfortable with non-Muslim men and women walking around with their faces covered... in shops, in schools, in hospitals, in airports, in train stations etc.

    I just searched on facebook and it seems like I wasn't the first one to think of this idea.  Here are some groups already created...

    http://www.facebook.com/search/?init=quick&q=burka%20balaclava&ref=ts#!/group.php?gid=303960038384
    http://www.facebook.com/search/?init=quick&q=burka%20balaclava&ref=ts#!/group.php?gid=315755125179
    http://www.facebook.com/search/?init=quick&q=burka%20balaclava&ref=ts#!/group.php?gid=117686851582406

    These kinda groups inevitably attract bigots and racist (both Muslim and non-Muslim), as some of the comments show.

    .
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #228 - July 19, 2010, 12:54 AM

    I was about to join the 1st one but then I saw support for banning the burka in the description.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #229 - July 19, 2010, 12:54 AM

    Talk about hypocrisy.

    I don't have a issue with a balaclava in public streets either

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #230 - July 19, 2010, 01:23 AM

    I have no problem with limitations on things like airports, banks where it is necessary to be able to identify for logistical reasons.

    But no one has the right to identify me in public streets if I choose to not let myself be seen.


    I presume you used 'me' in a general sense. Have you ever felt the need to hide yourself in public?

    Talk about hypocrisy.

    I don't have a issue with a balaclava in public streets either


     Cheesy Cheesy Looks like covering up will be in fashion soon. Imagine  Halloween lasting forever!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #231 - July 19, 2010, 01:26 AM

    I presume you used 'me' in a general sense. Have you ever felt the need to hide yourself in public?

     Cheesy Cheesy Looks like covering up will be in fashion soon. Imagine  Halloween lasting forever!


     Cheesy
    That would be my type of fashion. I love halloween!  dance

    Yeah course.
    When I have a bad hair day (which is alot) I wear a hoody and glasses.
    When it is freezing or raining, I bust out my scarves which cover the majority of my face then use my coat to cover the rest.
    Or you know ... when i'm planning to rob a bank  Wink

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #232 - July 19, 2010, 01:33 AM

    I'm seeing a lot of burka clad women on TV news reports speaking about their experience wearing it.  Because you can't see their mouth move to their words, it would be very easy to dub over these videos surely...  grin12

    Ok I'm being silly now...  whistling2

    .
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #233 - July 27, 2010, 08:02 PM


    Mona Eltahawy on Russia Today’s “Crosstalk” to discuss bans on face veils

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9m8xdzzuK0

    You go Mona  Afro

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #234 - July 27, 2010, 09:49 PM

    Thanks for the vid, Paloma.

    Go Mona and Siham!  Afro

    I wanna slap that British woman upside the head though.  wacko

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #235 - July 27, 2010, 09:57 PM

    Naive.

    That is the word I'd use to describe Myriam Franciois Cerrah.

    .
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #236 - July 28, 2010, 04:22 AM

    News Says "Al-Qaeda number two Ayman al-Zawahiri slammed France's move to ban face veils"

    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/19-zawahiri-slams-frances-veil-ban-urges-women-to-resist-hh-02

    Quote
    DUBAI: Al-Qaeda number two Ayman al-Zawahiri slammed France's move to ban face veils, saying Muslim women must hold on to their veils at any cost, in an audio tape posted online Tuesday.

    “In France, the pioneer of secularism, there is an overt and shameless war on hijab (veil) and niqab (face cover),” he said in the tape posted on a website.

    “What France is doing, which is spreading across Europe and the West, should prompt us to hold on to our true religion in face of their deviant ideologies,” he said in the message whose authenticity could not be verified.

    “My Muslim sisters, hold on to your hijab, even if it would cost you your money, education and jobs. You are mujahedat (female holy warriors) in the most important battlefield,” he said.

    The law to ban the Muslim face cover, which was passed overwhelmingly by French lawmakers, reveals that freedom in the West is confined to “fighting Islam ... and insulting the prophet, while banning anything touching anti-semitism, or questioning the Nazi Holocaust,”
    he said.

    “France cannot remove the head cover of a nun, but aggresses every Muslim woman wearing niqab, and every student covering her head,” he said.

    “Europe is revealing its real face, telling Muslims that all the (European) citizenships they obtained ... do not grant them the freedom and peace that they were imagining,” Zawahiri said.

    France is home to Europe's largest Muslim community. Other European countries, including Belgium and Spain, are working on bills similar to France's law to ban full Islamic veils in public places.

    Zawahiri resurfaced last week in an audio message in which he slammed Arab leaders as “Zionists” and mocked US President Barack Obama's claim that Taliban would never return to power in Afghanistan.

    It was his first tape since December.


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #237 - July 28, 2010, 04:27 AM

    Quote
    In the latest, Zawahiri also mocked Yemeni clerics who warned in January of calling for jihad if foreign troops joined Yemen's war against Al-Qaeda, claiming that US missiles had already hit Al-Qaeda militants in the south.

    He was referring to raids against Al-Qaeda on December 17, including a strike against a suspected training camp in Abyan, in which the Yemeni government said 34 Al-Qaeda suspects were killed.

    “Sadly, these clerics do not have the courage of Human Rights Watch organisation which said in its report early June that US Tomahawk missiles, carrying heads of cluster bombs, were used in the attack on Abyan,”
    he claimed.

    “It is a known fact that such missiles are guided from a control room in the United States,” he added.

    “What more do they need to see to call for jihad? Are they waiting for missiles to rain on them to realise then that America had intervened? Or are they waiting to see American soldiers roaming Sanaa in their tanks?” he exclaimed.

    He also accused Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh of being ready to “do anything to please America.” Zawahiri also urged Turks to assume the traditional leading role of the Ottoman Empire as the protector of Islam, and force their government to abandon relations with Israel and withdraw its troops from coalition forces in Afghanistan.
    Quote
    “The Turkish people should assume responsibility in forcing its government to stop recognising those who have occupied the land of Palestine, and (stop) taking part with the Crusaders in killing Muslims in Afghanistan,” he said.

    He also said the role of Turkey in supporting the Palestinians should not be confined to sending aid ships to the Gaza Strip, referring to the Turkish-led aid flotilla hit by a deadly raid by Israeli commandos on May 31.

    “Ottomans were the defenders of Muslims and their lands for five centuries.

    The role of the Muslim Turkish people in defending Muslims cannot shrink to just sending a few boats of aid to Gaza,” he said. –

    AFP

    And that is the 2nd part of that man.. the Islamic leader of 21st century speaking  from a RAT HOLE living some where in the Indian subcontinent..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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