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Theme Changer

 Topic: The Psychology of Circumcision...

 (Read 8908 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Psychology of Circumcision...
     OP - July 31, 2010, 09:00 AM



    I need someone to explain to my, why would a mother feel happy to see her son being mutilated and tortured? Is the religious gratification exceeds the parenting care and concern about thier children's well-being?

    I remomber passing out when I attended a relative's son circumcision! I really did lose my conciousness. I blacked out. I almost hurt myself as I hit the floor very hard. The thing that made me uneasy and made my stomach start to turn was the separtion procedure of the foreskin from the glans penis. That looked very painful. It looked like separating a fingernail from it's bed. I strugeld to stay concious (You know being a man and all that BS about being strong), but the moment the surgeon sniped that piece of streched skin, and as soon as the raw cut areas started to colour red, the room started to tilt, and the floor for some reason rushed upwards and hit me on the back of my head very hard.

    And the victim was not my son. I remember saying to myself when they woke me up. WTF was that for? Religion? No no no, no way I will subject my sons to this horrible event, even if Allah himself descended from heavens and ordered me to do it.

    So why, is this mother smiling?  wacko

    ...
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #1 - July 31, 2010, 09:10 AM

    Religious beliefs are one of the few memes that can irrationally convince people that pain and suffering is a good thing.

  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #2 - July 31, 2010, 09:24 AM

    I think Jews and Muslims (and whoever else circumcises their baby boys; and girls in some cultures) do not give much thought to any potential pain a baby maybe experiencing and how this may have an impact to their lives.

    There is debate over how early on in life babies can recall memories, including instances of pain. A bunch of researchers (I shall find out who they were, developmental pysch isn't a field I get terribly excited about)  did a study into how children/adults who had been circumcised as babies experienced/recalled painful events later on in life. They found that those circumcised in infancy recalled instances in childhood and adulthood (e.g. falling off a bike) more vividly and reported feeling more pain than those who had not been circumcised. The theory behind this finding is that we set up reference points in life to compare experiences (of pain) to.

    So, say you get shot and you think that is your most painful experience to date then you will judge how painful any subseqeuent experience is by using the being shot incident as your reference point. Even if babies can not consciously recall being circumcised (there is a phenomenan called childhood amnesia which describes how we seldom recall memories before the age of 3 years) that doesn't mean it doesn't have a longterm impact on their perceptions of pain.

    Even if we were to leave aside long term implications of infantile experiences, there is evidence to suggest that babies do fee pain. Here's an accessible paper to read: http://www.terrylarimore.com/BabiesAndPain.html
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #3 - July 31, 2010, 09:48 AM

    Thanks for paper Ferrero. I will read it in full later. But I just skimmed read few paragraphs and would like to share this part with the forum :


    Quote
    Parents present at circumcision (a rarity) have recalled how their babies cried. One father, present in the delivery room told me of his great surprise when the obstetrician proceeded to circumcise this boy at delivery. Having been quiet through the entire birth, the boy proceeded to protest loudly about the circumcision! A Jewish father, reflecting on this boy's circumcision on the eighth day, said it was the saddest occurrence of his babyhood: the boy cried more that afternoon, he said, than anytime in his whole first year.


     Cry

    ...
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #4 - July 31, 2010, 09:56 AM

    How traumatizing!! :(

  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #5 - July 31, 2010, 10:00 AM

    How traumatizing!! :(


    Yes it is. Very traumatizing indeed.


    ...
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #6 - July 31, 2010, 10:02 AM

    Thanks for paper Ferrero. I will read it in full later. But I just skimmed read few paragraphs and would like to share this part with the forum :


     Cry



    Another quote from that paper that I might be using as a siggy:
    Quote
    Apparently, this sexual rite originated some 4,000 years ago as a tribal and religious symbol in Semitic cultures. However, psychohistorian Lloyd DeMause [91] sees circumcision as only one of numerous acts of genital mutilation and violence perpetrated on infants and children in virtually every culture since the earliest times. Because it involves sexual mutilation in the family circle, he classifies it as incest and identifies it as an adult perversion.


    ...
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #7 - July 31, 2010, 10:15 AM

    I get that it's an adult perversion, but I don't understand the incest part :/

  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #8 - July 31, 2010, 10:21 AM


    Notice the estatic expression on the face of the woman in the centre of the photo. Could this be mother of the child being circumsized?

    Sick, sick fucks.
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #9 - July 31, 2010, 10:30 AM

    I get that it's an adult perversion, but I don't understand the incest part :/


    I think he implys that anything that involves touching or handling a sexual organ of a relative could be considered an incestuous act. In some cultures circumcision is done by an immediate relative, like an uncle or an aunt.

    ...
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #10 - July 31, 2010, 10:39 AM

    Ah makes sense now!

  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #11 - July 31, 2010, 02:27 PM

    I need someone to explain to my, why would a mother feel happy to see her son being mutilated and tortured? Is the religious gratification exceeds the parenting care and concern about thier children's well-being?

    As well as the religious gratification, I think there's also the fact that the boy could suffer ridicule if he is known to be the odd one out -- the only boy who is uncircumcised.  So parents want to ensure the boy fits in within the community as much as possible.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #12 - July 31, 2010, 02:43 PM

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    I need someone to explain to my, why would a mother feel happy to see her son being mutilated and tortured? Is the religious gratification exceeds the parenting care and concern about thier children's well-being?

    I remomber passing out when I attended a relative's son circumcision! I really did lose my conciousness. I blacked out. I almost hurt myself as I hit the floor very hard. The thing that made me uneasy and made my stomach start to turn was the separtion procedure of the foreskin from the glans penis. That looked very painful. It looked like separating a fingernail from it's bed. I strugeld to stay concious (You know being a man and all that BS about being strong), but the moment the surgeon sniped that piece of streched skin, and as soon as the raw cut areas started to colour red, the room started to tilt, and the floor for some reason rushed upwards and hit me on the back of my head very hard.

    And the victim was not my son. I remember saying to myself when they woke me up. WTF was that for? Religion? No no no, no way I will subject my sons to this horrible event, even if Allah himself descended from heavens and ordered me to do it.

    So why, is this mother smiling?  wacko


    i can completely understand what you went through.
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #13 - July 31, 2010, 03:27 PM

    i can completely understand what you went through.


    You passed out too?

    ...
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #14 - September 06, 2010, 03:43 PM

    It just disturbs me to see people so apathetic, or in this case, happy, to see their child be sexually mutilated for their imaginary friend.

    It is not the way you live your life that is important, it is how well you enjoy it that matters.
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #15 - September 06, 2010, 03:56 PM

    I think Jews and Muslims (and whoever else circumcises their baby boys; and girls in some cultures) do not give much thought to any potential pain a baby maybe experiencing and how this may have an impact to their lives.

    There is debate over how early on in life babies can recall memories, including instances of pain. A bunch of researchers (I shall find out who they were, developmental pysch isn't a field I get terribly excited about)  did a study into how children/adults who had been circumcised as babies experienced/recalled painful events later on in life. They found that those circumcised in infancy recalled instances in childhood and adulthood (e.g. falling off a bike) more vividly and reported feeling more pain than those who had not been circumcised. The theory behind this finding is that we set up reference points in life to compare experiences (of pain) to.

    So, say you get shot and you think that is your most painful experience to date then you will judge how painful any subseqeuent experience is by using the being shot incident as your reference point. Even if babies can not consciously recall being circumcised (there is a phenomenan called childhood amnesia which describes how we seldom recall memories before the age of 3 years) that doesn't mean it doesn't have a longterm impact on their perceptions of pain.

    Even if we were to leave aside long term implications of infantile experiences, there is evidence to suggest that babies do fee pain. Here's an accessible paper to read: http://www.terrylarimore.com/BabiesAndPain.html


    Here's an article on medical circumcision (which is very common in the US amongst non-Muslims/Jews-- I had it done), and it's generally pro-circumcision, seeing it as medically beneficial*, but notice even it makes it clear that the procedure IS painful:

    Quote from: the second page of the article
    Newborns who have a circumcision without analgesia (for pain relief) respond in ways that strongly suggest that they do feel pain and experience stress. They show changes in heart rate, blood pressure, and oxygen saturation, as well as changes in cortisol levels and behavioral changes. The behavioral changes include crying at the time as well as changes in sleep patterns and mother-child interactions that are temporary and disappear within 24 hours of the procedure.


    http://www.medicinenet.com/circumcision_the_surgical_procedure/page2.htm#4isa

    ------------------------------------------------

    *
    Quote from: the first page of the article
    Circumcision may be performed for religious or cultural reasons, or for health reasons. Newborn circumcision is thought to diminish the risk for cancer of the penis and lower the risk for cancer of the cervix in sexual partners. It is also believed to decrease the risk of urinary tract infections in infants and lower the risk of certain sexually transmitted diseases, especially HIV.


    fuck you
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #16 - September 06, 2010, 04:04 PM

    This is why I respect Hitchens so much:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-WSn3kBuWw

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #17 - September 06, 2010, 04:13 PM

    I shudder at the thought of my baby grandson having to have this done in a couple of years time.   Cry

    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #18 - September 06, 2010, 04:17 PM

    Permanent Damage! That is what happens when you have botched circumcision. I know of the people who had to have theirs corrected at least once because of insufficient cutting or asymmetrical cutting. Sometimes they have to put a ring around the penis where the foreskin used to be to heal it properly.... Do not ask... I do not want to know further about this barbaric practice of circumcising an 8 day old baby as per Torah's law.

    I guess if a 6 year old could be made to marry a 54 year old Mohammed for rest of his life, this is nothing in comparison.

    The most merciful Allah, who is more merciful than your own mortal mother, is capable of punishing you for eternity for a finite sin committed in a finite lifetime with finite knowledge, while your mother nor any living creature that is NOT a sadistic mother fucker would never commit such an act.
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #19 - September 06, 2010, 04:19 PM

    This is why I respect Hitchens so much:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-WSn3kBuWw

    The righteous fury! Yeah, there is something special about him.  grin12

    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #20 - September 06, 2010, 04:22 PM

    I'm glad he's on my side.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #21 - September 06, 2010, 04:53 PM

    I love Hitchens, I like how straightforward he is. Though how desensitized people are is disturbing. Then that rabi tries to make it a problem with Hitchens. Religion makes people lose their moral compass.

    It is not the way you live your life that is important, it is how well you enjoy it that matters.
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #22 - September 06, 2010, 05:37 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD0B-X9LJjs

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #23 - September 06, 2010, 05:44 PM

    ^ really all you need to know

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #24 - September 06, 2010, 09:52 PM

    like playing ps2 with a snez controller

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #25 - September 08, 2010, 09:57 PM

    Circumcision may be seen as abhorrent but it is quite tame compared to the initiation that boys go through at puberty in some australian aboriginal communities.
    All the men in the village dress up in their most horrific of costumes and they come to the boy to take it away from its mother. The mother pretends to fight off the men and protect the boy but eventually the men take the boy and off they go into the forests. There they leave the boy to fend for himself for a few days and when he eventually makes it back to the other men, they cut a slit down the bottom of his penis. This entire ritual is supposed to be symbolic of the coming of age of a man.
    First he is stolen from his mother an thrown into the wilderness. This is where he loses his center and his comfort zone and has to grow into a new role in life. And then when he does brave the wild and return as a victor, his penis has a long slit cut into it to symbolise a vagina. The idea is that the boy has grown into a fuller and complete human, he is no longer male or female but both, just like the ultimate reality that the aborigines call god. He has transcended his mother's womb and his gender to become the archetypal hero.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The Psychology of Circumcision...
     Reply #26 - September 08, 2010, 10:45 PM

    I can almost respect being thrown into the wilderness on a deeper, primal level. There is a kind of a romance to it, however harsh. It follows a certain natural order. We are animals after all. I don't like that particular ritualisation of it though. It could be a noble thing, an honourable rite of passage, rather than a traumatising experience, if not for that particular ceremonial artificial kidnapping nonsense.

    There will never, ever be any justification for genital mutilation though, in any culture. Its needless and unnatural. Its outright sadism no matter how you dress it up. It repulses me and makes my blood boil.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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