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Theme Changer

 Topic: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!

 (Read 10425 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     OP - September 13, 2010, 09:26 PM

    I heard that if we were to remove all the space in the universe, then it could be compressed into the size of a sugar cube. 

    I know atoms are by & large made of space, but is this a gross exaggeration, or true?

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  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #1 - September 13, 2010, 09:31 PM

    What does it even mean to have a measurement of size without space?
    This concept of "empty space" is too vague to make any such bold claims.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #2 - September 13, 2010, 09:33 PM

    There is no universe

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF61lhEeGng

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #3 - September 13, 2010, 09:35 PM

    I heard that if we were to remove all the space in the universe, then it could be compressed into the size of a sugar cube.  

    I know atoms are by & large made of space, but is this a gross exaggeration, or true?

    I've heard this too.


    @z10:  I too find it difficult to get my head around certain concepts in physics and metaphysics. wacko

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #4 - September 13, 2010, 09:39 PM

    .
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #5 - September 13, 2010, 09:48 PM

    The idea of absolute space independent of objects itself is an assumption. It was the central problem that Leibniz had with the Newtonian universe and lead him to postulate space as an arbiter of relationships only.
    Besides which, what is considered "empty" space on our macro-scale is bursting with unimaginable levels of activity at the quantum level and so the idea of emptiness is a bit hollow and anthropomorphic.
    Perhaps the point being made is that all the solid matter in the universe only adds up to a sugar cube, but then this is just a matter of definition - who is to say that the quarks that form a nucleus are any more solid than the supposed empty space around it? It's just a matter of convention.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #6 - September 13, 2010, 10:07 PM

    There is no universe

    Where do you reside then?

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  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #7 - September 13, 2010, 10:09 PM

    In your imagination. whistling2

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #8 - September 13, 2010, 10:22 PM

    Where do you reside then?


    Define 'you'

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #9 - September 13, 2010, 10:24 PM

    the collection of atoms that just typed;

    "Define 'you'"

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  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #10 - September 13, 2010, 10:30 PM

    "Gunslinger, our many-times-great grandfathers conquered the-disease-which-rots, which they called cancer, almost conquered aging, walked on the moon - "

    "I don't believe that," the gunslinger said flatly.

    To this, the man in black merely smiled and answered, "You needn't. Yet it was so. They made or discovered a hundred other marvellous baubles. But this wealth of information produced little or no insight. There were no great odes written to the wonders of artificial insemination - having babies from frozen mansperm - or to the cars that ran on power of the sun. Few if any seemed to have grasped the truest principle of reality: new knowledge leads to yet more awesome mysteries. Greater physiological knowledge of the brain makes the existence of the soul less possible yet more probable by the nature of the search. Do you see? Of course you don't. You've reached the limits of your ability to comprehend. But nevermind - that's beside the point."

    "What is the point then?"

    "The greatest mystery the universe offers is not life but size. Size encompasses life, and the Tower encompasses size. The child, who is most at home with wonder, says: Daddy, what is above the sky? And the father says: The darkness of space. The child: What is beyond space? The father: The galaxy. The child: Beyond the galaxy? The father: Another galaxy. The child: Beyond the other galaxies? The father: No one knows.

    "You see? Size defeats us. For the fish, the lake in which he lives is the universe. What does the fish think when he is jerked up by the mouth through the silver limits of existence and into a new universe where the air drowns him and the light is blue madness? Where huge bipeds with no gills stuff it into a suffocating box and cover it with wet weeds to die?

    "Or one might take the tip of the pencil and magnify it. One reaches the point where a stunning realization strikes home: The pencil tip is not solid; it is composed of atoms which whirl and revolve like a trillion demon planets. What seems solid to us is actually only a loose net held together by gravity. Viewed at their actual size, the distances between these atoms might become league, gulfs, aeons. The atoms themselves are composed of nuclei and revolving protons and electrons. One may step down further to subatomic particles. And then to what? Tachyons? Nothing? Of course not. Everything in the universe denies nothing; to suggest an ending is the one absurdity.

    "If you fell outward to the limit of the universe, would you find a board fence and signs reading DEAD END? No. You might find something hard and rounded, as the chick must see the egg from the inside. And if you should peck through the shell (or find a door), what great and torrential light might shine through your opening at the end of space? Might you look through and discover our entire universe is but part of one atom on a blade of grass? Might you be forced to think that by burning a twig you incinerate an eternity of eternities? That existence rises not to one infinite but to an infinity of them?

    "Perhaps you saw what place our universe plays in the scheme of things - as no more than an atom in a blade of grass. Could it be that everything we can perceive, from the microscopic virus to the distant Horsehead Nebula, is contained in one blade of grass that may have existed for only a single season in an alien time-flow? What if that blade should be cut off by a scythe? When it begins to die, would the rot seep into our universe and our own lives, turning everything yellow and brown and desiccated? Perhaps it's already begun to happen. We say the world has moved on; maybe we really mean that it has begun to dry up.

    "Think how small such a concept of things make us, gunslinger! If a God watches over it all, does He actually mete out justice for such a race of gnats? Does His eye see the sparrow fall when the sparrow is less than a speck of hydrogen floating disconnected in the depth of space? And if He does see... what must the nature of such a God be? Where does He live? How is it possible to live beyond infinity?

    "Imagine the sand of the Mohaine Desert, which you crossed to find me, and imagine a trillion universes - not worlds by universes - encapsulated in each grain of that desert; and within each universe an infinity of others. We tower over these universes from our pitiful grass vantage point; with one swing of your boot you may knock a billion billion worlds flying off into darkness, a chain never to be completed.

    "Size, gunslinger... size.

    "Yet suppose further. Suppose that all worlds, all universes, met at a single nexus, a single pylon, a Tower. And within it, a stairway, perhaps rising to the Godhead itself. Would you dare climb to the top, gunslinger? Could it be that somewhere above all of endless reality, there exists a room?...

    "You dare not."

    And in the gunslinger's mind, those words echoed: You dare not.


    ~ Stephen King, The Dark Tower

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #11 - September 13, 2010, 10:37 PM

    could you possibly answer the question in a more direct fashion?

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  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #12 - September 13, 2010, 10:40 PM

    I love how this dialogue between the physicist (IsLame) and the artist (Ishina) is going. Cheesy
    Awesome. dance

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #13 - September 13, 2010, 10:41 PM

    I don't have the answer for you, Islame. I'm still searching for it myself.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #14 - September 13, 2010, 10:55 PM

    IsLame, if someone chopped off both your arms and legs, would you still be you?
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #15 - September 13, 2010, 10:59 PM

    yes

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  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #16 - September 13, 2010, 11:02 PM

    So how are you just a "collection of atoms", as you stated, since even if you lose a huge chunk of atoms that make you up, you're still you? And forget about atoms that you lose everyday and are replaced; I'm talking about atoms that are never replaced.
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #17 - September 13, 2010, 11:04 PM

    Where is the collection of atoms that make up you? Where are you inside that collection of atoms?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #18 - September 13, 2010, 11:07 PM

    So how are you just a "collection of atoms", as you stated, since even if you lose a huge chunk of atoms that make you up, you're still you? And forget about atoms that you lose everyday and are replaced; I'm talking about atoms that are never replaced.

    If you look in the mirror, that can still be you... If you look at a photograph, that can still be you - you see, I wasnt attempting to make a defintion of what self is, just attempting to describe who she was, so I could get her to describe where she lived.  Ya dig?

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  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #19 - September 13, 2010, 11:09 PM

    Where is the collection of atoms that make up you? Where are you inside that collection of atoms?

    See my last message - I think they represent us, but they not necessarily are us.  You see the def. of self has to also include our thoughts & personality, which are not represented by atoms.

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  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #20 - September 13, 2010, 11:11 PM

    Exactly.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #21 - September 13, 2010, 11:13 PM

    You can't talk about what someone is without by definition talking about what self is.

    Why am I still the same person 20 years ago, even though probably not a single atom of me that exists today existed 20 years ago, and my thoughts and personality changed drastically as well?
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #22 - September 13, 2010, 11:14 PM

    See my last message - I think they represent us, but they not necessarily are us.  You see the def. of self has to also include our thoughts & personality, which are not represented by atoms.


    Or they could be cos of the atoms which are in your neurones and stuff.
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #23 - September 13, 2010, 11:18 PM

    Hmmm Thinking hard

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  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #24 - September 13, 2010, 11:18 PM

    You can't talk about what someone is without by definition talking about what self is.

    Why am I still the same person 20 years ago, even though probably not a single atom of me that exists today existed 20 years ago, and my thoughts and personality changed drastically as well?


    The new atoms have arranged themselves to fit your genetic jigsaw solution so therefore your material self is probably different but still doing the same stuff as it was when you were i dunno 25. Thoughts and personality are just in my opinion changes in the neural pathways of the brain, so you are the person 20 yrs ago slightly remodeled and rewired in places, so basically a change in your wiring.

    I need to think about this a lil deeper.
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #25 - September 13, 2010, 11:19 PM

    Perhaps, I've missed something here but I don't understand how the following works:
      
    1."atoms don't define a person, the 'self' is more than matter"
    and
    2. "infinities are everywhere, with a single staircase to the godhead the only absolute"
    therefore,
    3. "there is no universe"


    I am not saying that 1 and 2 are false, they are probably true I think, but I don't see how 3 is supposed to follow from the first two propositions.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #26 - September 13, 2010, 11:20 PM

    A live body and a dead body contain the same number of particles.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #27 - September 13, 2010, 11:21 PM

    Are you saying if your DNA were cloned, the person made would be you?
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #28 - September 13, 2010, 11:22 PM

    I don't see how 3 is supposed to follow from the first two propositions.


    It isn't.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The whole universe is the size of a Sugar Cube!
     Reply #29 - September 13, 2010, 11:22 PM

    z10,

    I am not arguing 3. I actually don't even know what that is about. I'm simply questioning IsLame's logic. He seems to think he has answers to things he doesn't.
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