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Theme Changer

 Topic: CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed

 (Read 168829 times)
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  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #270 - April 06, 2015, 11:38 PM

    And those are specific cases which you've highlighted...the problem comes, as I stated,  when you say all white men are like Fritzl or say that all Muslims are culturally backwards like Choudhary. This is why blanket remarks, whilst time efficient reqire nuance.


    What I consider is the best way and this is my opinion...to encourage debate so long as you draw upon specific examples and locate islam in its 7th C setting but in your criticism of Islam you reconise that Islam is continually evolving as a way of life for various groups of people and that they have the human right to do so. So long as it accords with UDHR and does not undermine secularism then that's fine and so long as you provide people with resources of critical thinking and of empowerment both within and outside of their religious paradigm and give the choice to choose then that's as far as we can go. I've changed my views considerably regarding Islam and its place in the world. This isn't a defeatist attitude but rather something that reflects my increasing concern of a vicious intolerance on both sides of the argument resulting in a  non-productive stalemate situation. We need to work together and on the things we disagree with, we need to be mature and walk away.


    I have to agree with these 2 posts. Over the years, I have seen how exmuslim experiences and our often very valid critiques of Islam have been used by people who really are xenophobic, who don't like 'others' whether it's immigrants, brown or black people, people who dress differently, who have different habits or whatever. I am seeing how some among the atheist and exmuslim 'movements' (such as they are) are being co-opted by those who want to over-simplify geo-political issues, and want to blame everything on narratives of it (whatevever 'it' may be that bothers you) being the fault of "Muslims" or "immigrants" or poor people, or what-not.

    It is a kind of appropriation of the exmuslim 'cause' in a way that I'm seeing happening in some cases out there - whereas early advocates for freedom of conscience were interested in helping promote critical thinking and supporting those who are actually marginalized by religious dogmas (not about tearing down those who choose to follow religions even if we don't agree with them), it's gotten to a point where the "exmuslim" banner is really being used in too many corridors to justify racism, bigotry, xenophobia by certain opportunistic types of people, who seem to want to piggyback on our backs to promote their reactionary agenda. And some exmuslims, frustrated by the neutered stances of relativists on the other side, have lent their weight to those reactionaries.

    The world is complex. Anyone, whether white or brown or black, whether atheist or Muslim, who tries to put everything into binary categories is oversimplifying things, which actually harms everyone in the long run. When you assist in polarizing the debate instead of adding nuance to it, instead of also looking at your own side critically, you help increase the tribalistic antagonism that riled you up to get into that debate... basically making the world a worse place. Too many people are more interested in stoking the fires of 'us vs them' than looking rationally at the ways that people are similar to 'us' and that even the differences we see may have more backstory to them than we understand so far.

  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #271 - April 07, 2015, 01:46 AM

    Thanks, Allat! hugs You all really are too kind, and you're going to give me a big head, and I'll have to suffer a terrible embarrassment to come back down to Earth. Grin
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #272 - April 07, 2015, 10:46 AM

    Allahu akbar wa lilahil hamd!

    We must stop using these easy to access labels as defining people.

  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #273 - April 07, 2015, 10:51 AM

    Learned well, you have, young Jedi.
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #274 - April 07, 2015, 02:39 PM

    I've found the more grey hairs I have the more tolerant I've become. Perhaps it's the nephews and nieces that I have who do nominally identify themselves as Muslims for a whole host of reasons. I don't want them to grow up in a world were if they choose to be atheists they are condemned or feel opressed and nor do I wish for them to feel victimised just because they choose to be Muslims and every one ascribes various ideas and characteristics to them that they do not possess.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #275 - April 12, 2015, 09:14 PM

    Any inquiry into the veracity of beliefs you inherited can only be meaningful if the starting point is that it's all false or that I'm willing to abandon those beliefs if they don't make sense.

    Most people are unwilling to start there or to go to that extent, so either there is zero questioning or it's an exercise in rationalizing beliefs that you already consider to be true.

  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #276 - April 24, 2015, 01:50 PM

    I personally don't want to live in a country which restricts the rights of some. That's not a Britain I want anything to do with. Fascism is fascism, there's no way around it. We'll let you build a mosque here when Saudi Arabia allows the building of a church over there? Seriously? Why the fuck would you want to model your home on a place like that?

  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #277 - April 24, 2015, 02:09 PM

     Afro
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #278 - April 25, 2015, 03:16 PM

    Quodmeister:

    Quote
    The only way to allow muslims to have liberal values is to let them have liberal values instead of demanding that they must.


    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #279 - April 26, 2015, 06:36 AM

    So much good stuff in here. I've bolded some parts which I think are critical and deserve highlighting:

    I do genuinely get the concerns like the ones Descent raised. I do understand how people can look around and see the loudest and the worst among Muslim immigrants and know the worst about Islam and have these worries. I get it, really.

    But the bottom line is the true proponents of the worst Islam has to offer are still in the minority--just like Jedi pointed out where Aisha's age (or that no, she was not actually different than all other girls of such an age) isn't at the forefront of their minds, the same goes for a great deal of the Quran, certainly a lot of the hadith. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if you paired me up with a random Muslim from my city, I'd probably know more than they do about the subject.

    And even if they were very knowledgeable, more and more Muslims, particularly young ones, particularly Western-raised, are not able to reconcile the fire and brimstone of the Quran with what they know and have experienced in life. The apologia may be flimsy, but many Muslims now don't believe apostates should be executed. They are going to be uncomfortable about the story of Aisha if they really sit and think about it.

    And how many of us who were apostates can remember being pulled in those different directions, still being Muslim and loving the religion and our identity, yet knowing somewhere deep down that certain things we hear about Islam just doesn't sound right? It's more common than I think we really appreciate.

    I know that it's easy to start whipping out the broad brush when we almost endlessly hear news stories and anti-blasphemy protests and one more fucking terrible thing that happened and lo and behold there's some awful guy who was a Muslim behind it. And we think "Of course," and we think "No wonder," and we roll our eyes. But a lot of it is truly amplified by fear mongering. News stories and following these issues as we do can easily create a perception of these issues as being disproportionately common. It's easy to get swept up in the frenzy, but the most important thing is to remember that it is not representative of most Muslims.

    No, they're not really immigrating here in great waves hoping to turn Britain or the United States into a sharia state. Some want that, sure, and you bet your sweet ass we'll hear about them, but it's not all of them, and it isn't going to happen.  And most of them can't agree on what that sharia is, anyway. And any efforts to make sure it doesn't happen should be directed at promoting secularism, which isn't worth shit if we start tailoring laws to weigh more heavily on all people of a certain religious group. Anyone who talks to you about creeping sharia and goes out of their way to collect all of the stories ostensibly confirming their warnings are fear mongering, plain and simple.

    And I know a lot of us have been very adversely affected by Islam, to say the absolute least. For a lot of us, we are hyperaware of its problems and can't be expected to pretend like we like or endorse or even want to tolerate it. A lot of us are more often immersing ourselves in this issue than others do, and it's hard to look away, and we can start to see it everywhere. And many of us, myself included, lack patience even for hearing about liberal interpretations of Islam, because we've been there, we've done that, we see problems with it, and it's too easy and too tempting to reduce Muslims to a cliché and to be cynical and dismissive of even the most loose followers and associates. I understand that completely.

    But this is the only way. And I hope we do not fall for this old trap that keeps the cycle of oppression and bitterness and suspicion going. It's rough, but I think so many people on here are in a unique position where we can stand between these two worlds and understand and relate on either side and find realistic middle ground and compromise. No, let's not defend secularism by spitting in its face. Yes, Islam has some terrible things in it, and yes, we know this, and yes, we may think that Muslims who disagree are deluded at best, but no, they don't all want us killed, they don't all want sharia states, they don't all hate kafirs and Jews and gay people and so on, and most importantly, they aren't all threats. Only a few are.

    There has been a rise in extremist views lately, in my observation. But it is still from the minority. And I think so much of what we're seeing on these Islamists' sides is desperation, are death throes. More and more Muslims are changing, are walking away from orthodoxy, are evolving their beliefs, are doing wonderful things. It's the natural progression. It can't be stopped. And do you really think that this problem will be resolved sooner or even slightly relieved by imposing restrictions on Muslims across the board? By trying to keep more of them in desperate situations where extremism flourishes? By handing ammunition to those who prey on Muslims feeling the weight of racism, of suspicion, of being ostracized and not fitting in, who try to reinforce an us-versus-them mentality?


    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #280 - April 26, 2015, 10:24 AM

    Thanks for highlighting this Allat -  Afro

    As for Lua - I declare there is no god but Lua and I am the first of the believers  grin12  dance
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #281 - April 26, 2015, 12:16 PM

    ................

    As for Lua - I declare there is no god but Lua ............ grin12  dance


    yes yes....   make a woman as god.. Heeeeeeeee..... that is the worst insult any one could give it lua    Cheesy Cheesy ... AGONYstic Hassan has  reverse connections in his neural network

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #282 - April 26, 2015, 12:35 PM

    As for Lua - I declare there is no god but Lua and I am the first of the believers  grin12  dance


    That really was a great piece from our Lua.

  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #283 - April 26, 2015, 02:59 PM

    As for Lua - I declare there is no god but Lua and I am the first of the believers  grin12  dance


    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    Seriously, Allat and Hassan and Laico, thanks, you all make me blush.
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #284 - May 02, 2015, 08:22 PM

    if you refuse to accept your religion could be wrong then any examination of your belief is futile.


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #285 - May 02, 2015, 09:03 PM

    Fame at last  dance
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #286 - May 04, 2015, 11:21 PM

    My understanding of British politics from this thread:

    There is a cartoon character running for President of Britain. All the meanies are making fun of him because he is a cartoon. So a little girl steps in to defend him. And then Rupert Murdoch comes in but the little girl saves the cartoon. Everyone lives happily ever after.

    Except at that segregated meeting. I dunno what that's all about, and probably should be done away with.


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #287 - May 10, 2015, 06:05 PM

    The thing is, it's really a shame that we as ex-Muslims have had to completely bail and ditch the community of Islam all together because our views are so fringe. There are plenty of agnostic/atheist people of Jewish or Christian heritage that have no problems claiming affinity to the only spiritual identity they've ever known. As I said earlier, I've had some really interesting conversations with people who call themselves Jews or Christians in real life, and honestly I'd struggle to disagree with them on much. It's a shame that the state of thought in the Muslim community is so lagging that we've essentially had to preemptively excommunicate ourselves before discussion could even begin. Nonetheless, I still think people who have had that crisis of faith or loss of faith will play an essential roll in the reformation, if even by no other means than by forcing debate.


    Spot on -  Afro
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #288 - May 16, 2015, 11:46 PM

    Khuffidel, the attitude on this forum is simply not the same as I have seen on others like reddit/exmuslim and other places that thoroughly bash Islam. If you primarily just have strong anger towards the religion and even many of the adherents, you will probably find more sympathetic ears and voices over there. It seems, at least to me, that this forum is about working through problems people have with leaving an important part of their identity and culture, building bridges between secular and religious voices, exploring questions of meaning and science, and a decent amount of mocking charlatans who would seek to take advantage of the credulous.

    I think what I am trying to say is this is the type of forum for really working towards solutions to problems and more understanding rather than demonizing groups of people and putting even more division in between groups. If you just seek a way to get out pent up anger and feel validated and it is necessary to use generalizations and hostility that many would construe as highly intolerant, there are better places out there for you. There is always room for emotional support here, but it just so happens that speaking in the manner you have is counterproductive to CEMB's goal of better understanding and interacting with our fellow humans across religious, ethnic, and political lines.  This is where you come when you have left behind the immaturity of black and white thinking and us vs. them mentality in favor of sitting down and rationally discussing a positive way forward.

  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #289 - May 17, 2015, 04:57 AM

    ^And that is why I love CEMB and its members so much <3

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #290 - May 25, 2015, 12:54 AM

    I am not fan of cultural relativism in regards to Aisha. Puberty takes years to complete. She would have started puberty at 5-6 to even have it finished at age 9. The major issue is Mo is supposed to be a figure to follow and one with God's ear. God should know the system he designed better. The fact that Allah does not is another point to Allah being a fiction. As a figure to follow this makes Mo a failure in respect to marriage. Islams guideline are far to close to "Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed". I no more make exceptions for people that have done this in Europe or Asia. However, again, none of these people are paragons of humanity as Mo is claimed to be.


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #291 - May 25, 2015, 08:15 AM

    Great post Bogart.
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #292 - May 28, 2015, 08:12 AM

    Hatoush's views are perfectly described here and are views i totally get and share.

    I know thet don't reflect the views of the majority here but I think it's one of many positions CEMB can happily embrace.
     
    yes, i left orthodox Islam, but i still identify as Muslim, yes probably the Majority of Muslims will consider me a heretic, but that's does not bother me at all, after all, every nomination in Islam consider the other one as non Muslim.

    I have a vague believe that there is something out there, maybe it is a wishful thinking, but i like the idea that there is more than a simple physical existence.

    I consider the Quran the product of an early Movement that become what we know as Islam, as a complex corpus, i understand that the Quran has a history, multiple layers and possible multiple authors and editors. i don't believe it has a divine origin or infallible but a cultural product of the 7th century Arabia.

    I don't know much about Historical Muhammed, I don't take seriously the traditional Islamic narrative,  his life is a mystery.

    But i do celebrate the Islamic Holidays, I do fast, I do sometimes pray, and when  i die, I wish to be buried as a Muslim.

  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #293 - May 28, 2015, 12:24 PM

    Hatoush's views are perfectly described here and are views i totally get and share.

    I know thet don't reflect the views of the majority here but I think it's one of many positions CEMB can happily embrace.
     


    **Pulls out Scepter. Makes line on floor**
    The difference between you and us is as thin as this line. 
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #294 - May 28, 2015, 12:46 PM

    Since we’re taking this seriously, I changed my mind. Here is what I’ll do:

    It’ll come suddenly, out of nowhere, just like the plan for invading my town would’ve had to have been just pulled out of thin air by daesh. People will be panicking, there will be chaos, and I’ll watch the current of the fleeing citizens from my window and think about joining them, but no: I haven’t played Call of Duty from my couch where I sat with sweaty controller in hand next to a tub of ice cream and the sound of my all-Rush mixtape dreaming grandiose thoughts for nigh on ten years for that.

    Since we’re being true-to-life, I’m probably in a t-shirt and socks at any given time of the invasion, so the first thing I’d have to do would be to dash to the bedroom and put on an outfit: tight, yet unrestricting, and in different tones of black, probably. My hair is long as fuck so it would have to go, and so I’d gather it and twist it close to my scalp and then saw it off with a knife like Disney’s Mulan and it would somehow still look really cool, because when I imagine this scenario, I look cool the whole way through.

    I hear gunfire and know daesh is approaching so I sneak out the back and dart from house to house, snaking in and out of yards and woods and sheds, against the grain of the running cowards like a badass. When I try to cut through one house, I find myself face-to-face with a lone daesh soldier and manage to wrestle with him before he can fire his rifle and I ultimately overpower him and take his gun, say something snarky about the shahadah before I shoot him--I’ll figure out the right words when I’m there, shut up--and continue on my way.

    I fight my way to the center of town and it’s there that I see it: a bunch of captives, guarded by several daesh soldiers, and among the captives is the girl I have been crushing on at my university for like two years. I haven’t worked out the precise details but I take the soldiers out and in the process sustain a gunshot injury—but, you know, one of the cool ones that you can walk off. Like on the shoulder. And I pretend I don’t even feel that shit as I free the hostages and direct them back toward the pathways I took, promising to try my best to cover them, and also among the hostages is the guy I gave that embarrassing auto-response to at the coffee shop, and same with a handful of people who don’t like me or I’ve embarrassed myself around, and although they don’t say it they’re thinking, “Wow. I was wrong about her. What a huge, gigantic, unforgivable fool I have been.”

    My crush is standing, astonished, hesitating to run, asks my name and if it’s really me, and I say something really smooth, I don’t know, give me a break, as I step forward and tilt her head up with my gun-free hand for a quick but not at all clumsy kiss. Camera pans away, towards approaching soldiers. With some convincing, she runs, but she looks back more than once, and then I make my last stand, holding my own for as long as I can before I’m hit--not just once, of course, like a ton of times--until I can’t shoot any longer. A daesh commander comes up to me and is impressed by how awesome I’ve been and considers letting me live, and that’s when I look up into his face and with the last of my strength say, “Ks umk,” and, enraged, he kills me. But not in a gross way. In a totally dignified way. Also, my body never rots.

    The town is lost, but my crush manages to escape, and she lives a long life, although she never loves again—not really, anyway.

    Little do I know, my death was recorded on video somehow and the video winds up on the internet along with my story. Browsing the stories of the small, inconsequential New England town that daesh conquered, _truth_  watches my totally heroic death and thinks, “Wow, I’m so glad that I asked for honesty, she was spot-on, and I've never seen someone pull off an IRL 360 no scope before.”

     Fin.


    Lua needs to retire now, because she's not matching this masterstroke.  Afro

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #295 - May 28, 2015, 01:46 PM

    **Pulls out Scepter. Makes line on floor**
    The difference between you and us is as thin as this line. 


    what line? I don't see any line.,  I can not even see it with Optical microscope

    So it must be less than  50 nano meters..,  Now  I need  electron microscope to see that line., Can I borrow EM from any one of you guys or other readers??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #296 - May 28, 2015, 02:20 PM

    **Pulls out Scepter. Makes line on floor**
    The difference between you and us is as thin as this line. 



    Haha lol Smiley
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #297 - May 28, 2015, 02:22 PM

    Lua needs to retire now, because she's not matching this masterstroke.  Afro


    Lua must never retire.

    She is the Chosen One who will bring justice and peace throughout the land in End Times.
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #298 - May 28, 2015, 02:24 PM

    Lua is the Chosen One (almustafa)

    https://youtu.be/pRsekFYkCDM
  • CEMB Greatest Hits - posts you may have missed
     Reply #299 - May 28, 2015, 03:18 PM

    Lua needs to retire now, because she's not matching this masterstroke.  Afro


    Ahh, four-thousand posts and I finally made one that spoke to you. Grin I'm a little embarrassed that this is going in with the greatest hits, though. Cheesy

    Lua must never retire.

    She is the Chosen One who will bring justice and peace throughout the land in End Times.


     Cheesy Nah, I've peaked, it's all downhill from here. Unless I can do all that over Xbox Live.
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