What does this Arabic word actually say?

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- mighty_cats
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What does this Arabic word actually say?
OP - October 09, 2010, 07:59 PM

I've been in a debate with a muslim (as usual) and he brought up the following claim:

That the verse below states 'lowest' land.

30:3
Fee adna al-ardi wahum min baAAdi ghalabihim sayaghliboona
http://www.altafsir.com/Quran.asp?SoraNo=30&Ayah=1&NewPage=0&Tajweed=1

However, over 20 translations say 'nearest', and I quote:
Pickthal:
In the nearer land, and they, after their defeat will be victorious

Now I'm not very fluent in arabic myself, but I doubt the claim (ofcourse, the fact that a Muslim said it is often a good enough reason to be skeptical, no offense theists, but you've got a terrible track record), but a friend of mine is fluent and told me this:
"The word 'adna' written with an alif maksura could mean closer, lower, inferior, lowlier, smaller but in the aya it means the nearer."

I want to be abit more objective about this, so perhaps someone here can give me more information about this.
Thankyou.
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Re: What does this Arabic word actually say?
Reply #1 - October 09, 2010, 08:15 PM

This is yet another one of their favourite so-called 'miracles'.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_prediction_in_Sura_al-Rum

"Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

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- TheRationalizer
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Re: What does this Arabic word actually say?
Reply #2 - October 09, 2010, 08:21 PM

It appears to say "less", I supposed this could mean "least distance" or "least height"

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=30&verse=3

It is also used in 58:7 to say that "not less than that and not more"

Hardly a miracle is it? It's not like it named the place, just some vague wording that (as usual) can mean more than one thing. Now if it had said the place I'd have been more impressed, and the date too I'd have been even more impressed. Of course we'd then have to check that this event happened after Muhammad's death, and not before he spoke the words.

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- mighty_cats
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Re: What does this Arabic word actually say?
Reply #3 - October 09, 2010, 08:48 PM

I agree and made the same arguments, as well as bringing up the old argument of how an all powerful being can create a book in such an independent untranslatable language.

But still, I would like specific evidence of what it does/doesn't say.

I also found this refutation too:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/dead_sea.htm

But again, it's another theist, so Im not compelled.
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Re: What does this Arabic word actually say?
Reply #4 - October 09, 2010, 09:14 PM

Near or low.
You can say this person is danee2 = Meaning a low person .
So it could have either meaning, However if i remember correctly it wasn't one definitive war right?
When did The holy cross returned to Byzantine ?

سيغلبون <---- This word, without the "tashkeel" "its markings" can mean two things
1- Saya3'leboon i.e will be victorious. (If u use a kasra) The small underneath tilted /
2- Sayo3'laboon i.e will be defeated. (If u use a dama) The small 9

The tashkeel plays a definitive role and that (and the dots) were added in Usman's era right?

It still isn't a strong argument as the next verse states that the believers will be happy when this happens, i.e monotheism victory over polytheism i am guessing.

Its all confusing really.
And again he might have got it right, still wont prove a lot.
This miracle is the hardest to refute, in my opinion.

Again, this requires another Arabic speaker to confirm .

Confucius:
"What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
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Re: What does this Arabic word actually say?
Reply #5 - October 10, 2010, 09:30 AM

1: Only the "progressive Muslims" translate this to mean "lowest land"
http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/30/3/default.htm

If this were a prediction that happened almost immediately (and may I add....BEFORE the Quran was written down) then why weren't people making a big fuss about it? Why aren't all these translations corroborating "lowest"? Why don't all the Tafsirs also say "lowest"?

It's manufactured, as simple as that. The reason is probably because it the verse says the Byzantines will be victorious in a "few" years. They were defeated in 618 and did not win back the land until 627. That's 9 years, nearly a decade. So why say "in a few years" and it happens after 9? Surely Allah knew it would be 9 years?

30:3 In 9 years - Allah's is the command in the former case and in the latter - and in that day believers will rejoice

I just improved the Quran, therefore it is imperfect.

Also, "close by" is relative. Close by to what?

A: Where Muhammad revealed it?
B: Where the Romans were defeated?
C: Where the Romans were based?

There isn't a single scenario to which the words "close by" cannot be successfully applied....and how far away is "close by"?

Year + Place is a prediction by someone/something with foreknowledge. Only a person who is guessing uses vague statements such as "in a few years" and "somewhere close by" in their predictions.

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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