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Theme Changer

 Topic: Somali pirates get record ransom

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  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #30 - November 08, 2010, 01:06 AM

    well things would change if the powers that be stopped negotiating with these sea-bandits - it doesnt happen elsewhere on the world stage, I am yet to understand why it happens here  Huh?

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  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #31 - November 08, 2010, 02:06 AM

    I'm stunned by the support of terrorism on this thread. 

    Next should we congratulate Bin Laden too, because 911 was a reaction to Western interference in Islamic lands?


    Riiiight...cause armed robbery to feed your family is the same as killing as many civilians as possible in the name of your religion.  Roll Eyes

    fuck you
  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #32 - November 08, 2010, 05:08 AM

    Because supporting the Pirates is soooo the same as supporting Al  Qaeda  Roll Eyes
    Lol @ throwing around the word terrorist to somehow make it sound worse. When all they are criminals.

    One action emerged out of no other alternative and the other a ideological action of choice. The pirates aren't going to go anytime soon.

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #33 - November 08, 2010, 05:32 AM

    well things would change if the powers that be stopped negotiating with these sea-bandits - it doesnt happen elsewhere on the world stage, I am yet to understand why it happens here  Huh?


    The reason is because it is easier to pay than sit around and wait for the Navy to try and catch them.
    Pay a few million, guaranteed return of hostages and ship and the fine is a ridiculously low sum compared to the worth of the cargo. It response is obvious and the reasons why it will not stop is vast.

    Agreed, but that still dont make it right


    Perhaps not right but it doesn't make them wrong .... lul wut?

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #34 - November 08, 2010, 07:07 AM

    Riiiight...cause armed robbery to feed your family is the same as killing as many civilians as possible in the name of your religion.  Roll Eyes


    Many of them are not that poor and doing it to feed their families now, it has turned into a business.  Their families cook for the hostages.    Roll Eyes

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #35 - November 08, 2010, 07:13 AM

    Many of them are not that poor and doing it to feed their families now, it has turned into a business.  Their families cook for the hostages.    Roll Eyes


    Actually once a pirate has enough money, they "retire" and stop actively doing it.

    New recruits take their place
    Oh and the entire town benefits from piracy, it creates demand and business.
    Kenya also benefits hence why it won't be stopped.

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #36 - November 08, 2010, 07:14 AM

    The reason is because it is easier to pay than sit around and wait for the Navy to try and catch them.
    Pay a few million, guaranteed return of hostages and ship and the fine is a ridiculously low sum compared to the worth of the cargo. It response is obvious and the reasons why it will not stop is vast.


    And do more damage to the Somalis in the long run because it will encourage more of them to become pirates and increase the corruption, and they will not want to give it up.  Do you know that these people also target aid ships?   It does not matter how little the ransom is when compared to the value of the cargo.  I hope you don't begrudge other people the right to fight back too.  Actually the navies have had an effect on the pirates, the pirates have been forced to change their hunting grounds.



    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #37 - November 08, 2010, 07:16 AM



    New recruits take their place


    was going to say this

    Oh and the entire town benefits from piracy, it creates demand and business.
    Kenya also benefits hence why it won't be stopped.


    And you actually think that building a business on kidnapping is good or beneficial for Somalia in the long run?

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #38 - November 08, 2010, 07:17 AM

    And do more damage to the Somalis in the long run because it will encourage more of them to become pirates and increase the corruption, and they will not want to give it up.  Do you know that these people also target aid ships?   It does not matter how little the ransom is when compared to the value of the cargo.  I hope you don't begrudge other people the right to fight back too.  Actually the navies have had an effect on the pirates, the pirates have been forced to change their hunting grounds.





    Why not for them to be pirates? I don't see the problem.

    I don't begrudge anyone anything. As I said, both sides will be armed. If Somali's get the money, they earned it if they dodged all those countries navies. If they don't, they knew the risk.

    I laugh at how this is when the world pays attention. Not when nuclear waste and over fishing was occurring in Somalia but the second they strike back. It's the end of the world and those terrorists must be stopped  Cheesy

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #39 - November 08, 2010, 07:18 AM

    was going to say this

    And you actually think that building a business on kidnapping is good or beneficial for Somalia in the long run?


    As opposed to what?
    No business at all and starvation?

    I don't blame 'em and if it brings in money, good for them.

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #40 - November 08, 2010, 07:54 AM

    Looks like it's one bloody mess. International poachers are corrupting a whole country! I don't know whether or not they fish in international waters. But even if they fish in international waters, what they are doing is morally wrong IMO. Desperate situations call for desperate measures.
    Instead of protecting and conserving their environment,their greed makes them rape it and when there are no more fish to catch they come to deprive poor people of food and their source of income. An act which, even if it's technically correct is morally very wrong.
    A typical David and Goliath situation here.

    I wish there were an international body that could mediate fairly in such situations.
    For a start it could mandate that all nations restrict their fishing to their territorial waters.In case of a shortage ,IMPORT fish by paying a fair price from wherever they want.
    So they might end up paying more than what they do now,it will be a WIN-WIN situation in the long run.
    But I feel sensible consumption can regulate the demand ,which in turn can obviate the need for 'corporate fishing',the real culprit here!

    Till such time as sanity prevails, beloved solutions endorsed by Messers QMan & LOKI will rule the roost! Cheesy Cheesy

    The downside of all this madness is that innocent people keep copping the shit! Cry


    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-you-are-being-lied-to-about-pirates-1225817.html

    ETA:THAT DUMPING OF NUCLEAR WASTE IS A DOWNRIGHT CRIMINAL ACT!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #41 - November 08, 2010, 08:33 AM

    The 'benefit' of Somalia's pirates

    Quote
    The increasing levels of piracy off the coast of Somalia have caused an unexpected spin-off, raising the levels of fish in the sea.

    Fisherman in Kenya have reported bumper catches of shark and shellfish because commercial fishing boats from China and Japan have been scared away.

    Now the fishermen are able to catch up to £200 worth of fish per day in an area where the average daily earnings are less than £5.

    The massive factory trawlers which used to drain their fish stocks have been scared away and that means there is a huge bounty for local fishermen as well as helping to restore the health of the marine eco-system.

    http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/world/africa/the%2Baposbenefitapos%2Bof%2Bsomaliaaposs%2Bpirates/3399027.html

    Fishermen see upside to pirates: more fish

    Quote
    People here have one thing to thank Somali pirates for: better fishing.

    In past years, illegal commercial trawlers parked off Somalia's coast and scooped up the ocean's contents. Now, fishermen on the northern coast of neighboring Kenya say, the trawlers are not coming because of pirates.

    "There is a lot of fish now, there is plenty of fish. There is more fish than people can actually use because the international fishermen have been scared away by the pirates," said Athman Seif, the director of the Malindi Marine Association.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34795099/
     dance

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #42 - November 08, 2010, 09:28 AM

    The reason is because it is easier to pay than sit around and wait for the Navy to try and catch them.
    Pay a few million, guaranteed return of hostages and ship and the fine is a ridiculously low sum compared to the worth of the cargo. It response is obvious and the reasons why it will not stop is vast.

    No thats not the reason - its because most of them are privately owned, so they are perfectly within their rights to negotiate.  If the government were involved they would probably stop financially negotiating with them over the hostages, as they do in national matters.

    Quote
    Perhaps not right but it doesn't make them wrong ..

    It does.  Where are your ethics? Catching & threatening to kill innocent people at random is not equal retribution for somebody else catching & killing your fish!
    Riiiight...cause armed robbery to feed your family is the same as killing as many civilians as possible in the name of your religion.  Roll Eyes

    No.  The Bin Laden example was in response to your argument that 2 wrongs make a right, certainly not saying both examples were over the same cause.

    In any case these fishermen are not starving.  They are well equipped last I heard, using expensive & advanced techonology last I heard.    We have plenty of people living hand to mouth in this world, doesnt mean they should or would turn to crime, nor start attacking wholly innocent people as a result.

    Hundreds of good people have been threateened & murdered over this y'know?


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  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #43 - November 08, 2010, 09:42 AM

    It does.  Where are your ethics? Catching & threatening to kill innocent people at random is not equal retribution for somebody else catching & killing your fish!


    Naturally, businesses aren't stupid. They know what the logical option is. Paying the fine.

    And ITT: Strong understatement of the issue.
    It's not just over fishing which has deprived fishermen of their jobs but also strong nuclear and waste dumping of our coast.

    Why should I feel sympathy or even care when people are just whining about Pirates. Where were those same people when Somali's were dying of nuclear radiation?  Roll Eyes

    No amount of money will compensate but it's a damn good start. I still support the Pirates and hey, if people don't want their ships hijacked. Simply stay away from the Horn  Afro

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #44 - November 08, 2010, 09:50 AM

    It's not just over fishing which has deprived fishermen of their jobs but also strong nuclear and waste dumping of our coast.

    Why should I feel sympathy or even care when people are just whining about Pirates. Where were those same people when Somali's were dying of nuclear radiation?  Roll Eyes

    No amount of money will compensate but it's a damn good start. I still support the Pirates and hey, if people don't want their ships hijacked. Simply stay away from the Horn  Afro

    Cool, so you are supporting people who take random people as hostages - lets just hope its not you, or a member of your family next time. eh?

    Can you tell me how your stance is different from the average Muslim suppporter of Roshonara Choudhry, who stabbed her local MP over voting for the Iraq war?  Or was she only wrong because you dont happen to support her particular cause?

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  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #45 - November 08, 2010, 09:56 AM

     Cheesy

    My family would be fine in Somalia, thanks for the concern. I could care less over her stabbing of the MP.

    Oh and nice side stepping over the fact that it is not over fishing but nuclear and waste dumping.  


    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #46 - November 08, 2010, 10:00 AM


    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #47 - November 08, 2010, 10:06 AM

    Cheesy

    My family would be fine in Somalia, thanks for the concern.

    "I'm alright Jack, but stuff you!"  Nice.  Your sense of morality is really messed up!

    Quote
    Oh and nice side stepping over the fact that it is not over fishing but nuclear and waste dumping.  

    So these politically charged fisherman are doing this because of the radiactive dumping?

    Oh btw, whats your response to my question?

    Can you tell me how your stance is different from the average Muslim suppporter of Roshonara Choudhry, who stabbed her local MP over voting for the Iraq war?  Or was she only wrong because you dont happen to support her particular cause?


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  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #48 - November 08, 2010, 10:12 AM

    "I'm alright Jack, but stuff you!"  Nice.  Your sense of morality is really messed up!


    And?
    To think I'm going to care about faceless strangers I have no connection to. Let me cut through all the inevitable moral bullshit that is no doubt going to continue in this thread. I don't care.

    Quote
    So these politically charged fisherman are doing this because of the radiactive dumping?


    Undoubtedly it started out because of it. Fishermen had no other way. Now however, it is changing.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/off-the-coast-of-somalia-were-not-pirates-these-are-our-waters-not-theirs-1017962.html

    Quote
    Bile did not grow up dreaming of being a pirate. He comes from a family of fishermen whose livelihood was destroyed, he says, by the arrival of industrial trawlers from Europe.

    At some 3,300 kilometres, Somalia has the longest coastline in Africa. With a fertile upswelling where the ocean reaches Africa's Horn, the seas are rich in tuna, swordfish and shark, as well as coastal beds of lobster and valuable shrimp.

    With the overthrow of Siad Barre's government in 1991, the territorial waters off Somalia became a free-for-all. Trawlers from more than 16 different nations were recorded within its waters – many of them armed. EU vessels flying flags of convenience cut deals with the illegitimate authorities in Somalia, according to UN investigators.

    Clashes between large, foreign fishing interests and Somali fishermen in the late 1990s were the prelude to the upsurge in piracy.

    Bile, like many of the pirates, calls himself a "coastguard" and insists he has more right to these contested seas than the foreign forces now patrolling them. He says many of his friends' boats were destroyed in these battles and stocks of a fish known locally as "yumbi" have all but disappeared.

    Like many in Somalia, Bile is angry that outside powers are seeking a military solution to a more complex problem. He rejects the tag of "terrorist" and denies links to Islamic militias, like the Al-Shabab, which are in control of large areas of Somalia. He insists that the pirates would not give "one AK-47" to the Islamists.

    While admitting that the influx of foreign navies is making his life more dangerous, he remains defiant: "We will keep carrying out attacks. We are ready for long distance attacks as far as the coast of Yemen."

    Quote
    Oh btw, whats your response to my question?


    I edited it.
    If she was an Iraqi who's country has been harmed deeply by the actions, then who am I to cast judgement when I support the Pirates.

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #49 - November 08, 2010, 10:19 AM

    If she was an Iraqi who's country has been harmed deeply by the actions, then who am I to cast judgement when I support the Pirates.

    So if a non Somali pirate was involved in hijacking as a protest against dumping of radioactive waste, then you'd be against?
    To think I'm going to care about faceless strangers I have no connection to. Let me cut through all the inevitable moral bullshit that is no doubt going to continue in this thread. I don't care.

    Its not moral bullshit - its called caring about others???   I find what you just wrote there, no different to the ethics of Bin Laden, very very scary indeed.  btw did you feel sorry for those that died in 911?

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  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #50 - November 08, 2010, 10:22 AM

    And?
    To think I'm going to care about faceless strangers I have no connection to. Let me cut through all the inevitable moral bullshit that is no doubt going to continue in this thread. I don't care.

    Neither do those who were dumping nuclear waste and all other shit off the cost of Somalia.

    They couldn't care less if people get fucking leukaemia because of that. It's just profit. And those pesky Somalians are in the way of even more profit. But they don't care. I mean it's just business.
    Nothing personal. Surely you understand that.

    Surely if we were talking about their own families that would change it all. But we aren't. It's just some faceless strangers getting cancer because of it. Some savages from some shit-hole Somalia - it's not like they are properly civilized either - it's total otherness, so there is even less to empathize with.

    Nice.
  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #51 - November 08, 2010, 10:24 AM

    So if a non Somali pirate was involved in hijacking as a protest against dumping of radioactive waste, then you'd be against?

    Its not moral bullshit - its called caring about others???   I find what you just wrote there, no different to the ethics of Bin Laden, very very scary indeed.  btw did you feel sorry for those that died in 911?


    If the Non Somali wishes to risk death for something which doesn't affect him, he is a fool but I'm not going to stop him.  I didn't feel no different than when I read about floods, earthquakes or starvation in Africa

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #52 - November 08, 2010, 10:27 AM

    Nothing personal. Surely you understand that.


    They wanted a cheap alternative to dump their shit and Somalia is perfect. Infighting and the world is looking away, you can easily get rid of it at a low cost when it can otherwise be highly expensive. Logical, not going to fault that

    I don't expect people to care about Somalis. Just keep their whining about the actions to a minimum if it is not their relatives/someone they know.

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #53 - November 08, 2010, 10:35 AM

    ..

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  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #54 - November 08, 2010, 10:39 AM

    They wanted a cheap alternative to dump their shit and Somalia is perfect. Infighting and the world is looking away, you can easily get rid of it at a low cost when it can otherwise be highly expensive. Logical, not going to fault that

    Precisely. More profit is always good. And if people get fucked up in the process who cares. It's not like they are my relatives or friends or anything.

    I don't expect people to care about Somalis. Just keep their whining about the actions to a minimum if it is not their relatives/someone they know.

    My point exactly. I couldn't care less about Somalis. In fact I hope (and they surely will - you know maximizing the profits and all that) that big businesses and nuclear Mafia start hiring proper armed escorts with big guns and blow the fuckers out of the water. It's against international law to hire mercenaries for protection? Well so is dumping nuclear waste and fishing in somebody else's territorial waters. And nobody gave a shit about that either.
  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #55 - November 08, 2010, 10:42 AM

    Precisely. More profit is always good. And if people get fucked up in the process who cares. It's not like they are my relatives or friends or anything.
    My point exactly. I couldn't care less about Somalis. In fact I hope (and they surely will - you know maximizing the profits and all that) that big businesses and nuclear Mafia start hiring proper armed escorts with big guns and blow the fuckers out of the water. It's against international law to hire mercenaries for protection? Well so is dumping nuclear waste and fishing in somebody else's territorial waters. And nobody gave a shit about that either.

    Come to think of it, why not just nuke Somalia & be rid of the problem altogether?  I mean lets be real, who cares about the rest of Somalia either?

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  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #56 - November 08, 2010, 10:44 AM

    Precisely. More profit is always good. And if people get fucked up in the process who cares. It's not like they are my relatives or friends or anything.

    My point exactly. I couldn't care less about Somalis. In fact I hope (and they surely will - you know maximizing the profits and all that) that big businesses and nuclear Mafia start hiring proper armed escorts with big guns and blow the fuckers out of the water. It's against international law to hire mercenaries for protection? Well so is dumping nuclear waste and fishing in somebody else's territorial waters. And nobody gave a shit about that either.


    Very well said and we agree.
    Selective outrage is highly amusing to observe tbh.

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #57 - November 08, 2010, 10:45 AM

    Come to think of it, why not just nuke Somalia & be rid of the problem altogether?  I mean lets be real, who cares about the rest of Somalia either?


    Meh, Somalia's problems tend to affect only Africa (and recently ships and international world)
    ME is affecting the world with its issues for much longer.

    Start with the most problematic area of the world dude.

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #58 - November 08, 2010, 12:29 PM

    Start with the most problematic area of the world dude.

    Wheres that (btw who's the judge?)
    If the Non Somali wishes to risk death for something which doesn't affect him, he is a fool but I'm not going to stop him.  I didn't feel no different than when I read about floods, earthquakes or starvation in Africa


    You dont have a problem with stabbing or murder as mode of justice as long as YOU believe in the cause?

    Would you ever go as far as these pirates did for this cause, or would you only stop because you are too chicken?

    So again apart from their cause, how are you different from Muslim terrorists in their attitude towards innocent civilian casualites?  I hope I never see your 'selective moral outrage' the next time a muslim terrorist bombs a train, building or school on behalf of Iraq war.

    So long as people with ethics like you exist, we are going to have civilians killing other innocent civilians.  

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  • Re: Somali pirates get record ransom
     Reply #59 - November 08, 2010, 02:07 PM

    Wheres that (btw who's the judge?)


    The person with the finger on the trigger button of the Nuke.  Huh?

    Quote
    So long as people with ethics like you exist, we are going to have civilians killing other innocent civilians.  


    The moral argument is just bullshit. I don't care.

     Cheesy
    Strong naivete.

    Humans will always kill each other. It kinda comes with the territory.

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

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