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Theme Changer

 Topic: Ancient Aliens

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  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #30 - November 23, 2010, 05:32 PM
    Grin

    I guess Mohammad also went to heaven on a flying mule-woman hybrid.
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #31 - November 23, 2010, 05:40 PM
    No, that's just silly. But you have to consider that the stars are often referred to as 'heavens'/'heavenly bodies' by primitive people  parrot
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
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    Previously donatelo
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    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #32 - November 23, 2010, 05:48 PM
    Quote from: donatelo on November 23, 2010, 05:08 PM
    Could Bronze chisels have been used to cut millions of stones as precisely as they are cut? (2.3 million to be precise)  Huh?

    How could stone such as granite have been cut by bronze chisels? Granite is a very hard material.


    The bronze chisels were using for the sandstone and limestone. Dolerite was used in the quarries of Aswan, possibly to remove the granite. Its not certain, however.

    Quote from: donatelo on November 23, 2010, 05:08 PM
    If the pyramids were built to house pharoah's bodies, how come no such bodies were found inside the pyramids?


    Huh? They have.

    Quote from: donatelo on November 23, 2010, 05:08 PM
    Could 25-80 tonnes heavy stones be lifted by 20 men..? (The capacity of a modern crane is around 18 tonnes). The earliest use of wheels is found in around 3500 BC, whereas the pyramid of giza was built 1000 years before that, so the egyptians didn't have wheels or pulleys to move the stones either.


    No, not lifted. Dragged.



    Quote from: donatelo on November 23, 2010, 05:08 PM
    Then there are also other monolith structures like the stonehedge, built by even more primitive societies who also had no way of carrying such large stones across vast distances required to build the structures.


    This is misleading. Just because we don't know exactly how they moved the stones, does not mean they had no way of moving them.

    Quote from: donatelo on November 23, 2010, 05:08 PM
    P.S did you know that the egyptian gods are actually thought to have come from the skies, and the pharoahs were considered descendants of those gods?


    So is Jesus.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #33 - November 23, 2010, 06:05 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on November 23, 2010, 05:48 PM
    The bronze chisels were using for the sandstone and limestone. Dolerite was used in the quarries of Aswan, possibly to remove the granite. Its not certain, however.

    You would need something very sharp in order to cut a stone such as granite. Also, you have to consider the complexity involved in cutting the stones as precisely as they are that they fit perfectly together, and decide if the chisels and other crude tools would be able to achieve this type of precision which can only be achieved by modern tools these days.

    Quote from: Ishina on November 23, 2010, 05:48 PM
    Huh? They have.

    I could be wrong about this, but in the documentary its said that no pharoah bodies have been found in the pyramid of giza? Which would be strange if such an elaborate pyramid was built for his burial, and yet his body wasn't safe inside? But I could've misunderstood what was said or they could be wrong.

    Quote from: Ishina on November 23, 2010, 05:48 PM
    No, not lifted. Dragged.

    Fair enough but how would they drag it without wheels? Could they really have dragged 25-80 ton blocks of stone to the tallest building of the world for 3000 years without wheels?

    Quote from: Ishina on November 23, 2010, 05:48 PM
    This is misleading. Just because we don't know exactly how they moved the stones, does not mean they had no way of moving them.

    Its a matter of putting 2 + 2 together, when you have all these huge structures built with such precision, the various pyramids in south america, egypt, the puna punko monoliths, stonehedge, etc, plus all these myths about gods coming from stars, plus paintings and other artifacts, the scale starts to tip more in the favor of extra terrestrial intervention than the primitives having a way of moving the huge blocks to make stonehedge.

    Quote from: Ishina on November 23, 2010, 05:48 PM
    So is Jesus.

    Correct, and almost every other ancient religion has also got myths of gods coming from the stars Tongue.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
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    Previously donatelo
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    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #34 - November 23, 2010, 06:24 PM
    You're putting too much emphasis on the granite. The vast bulk of the pyramid is sandstone and limestone, which is fairly simple to cut, and there is also the idea that they might actually be a form of concrete, moulded into blocks as liquid compound. Some of the interior was granite, yes. But they were not cutting and dragging all that much granite at all.

    As to how they dragged the blocks without wheels - they made reinforced ramps and roads, and physically dragged them. They had a whole production line going. Its not an advanced science as much as its hard labour.

    A little insight to the labourers:

    Contrary to some popular depictions, the pyramid builders were not slaves or foreigners. Excavated skeletons show that they were Egyptians who lived in villages developed and overseen by the pharaoh's supervisors.

    The builders' villages boasted bakers, butchers, brewers, granaries, houses, cemeteries, and probably even some sorts of health-care facilities—there is evidence of laborers surviving crushed or amputated limbs. Bakeries excavated near the Great Pyramids could have produced thousands of loaves of bread every week.

    Some of the builders were permanent employees of the pharaoh. Others were conscripted for a limited time from local villages. Some may have been women: Although no depictions of women builders have been found, some female skeletons show wear that suggests they labored with heavy stone for long periods of time.

    Graffiti indicates that at least some of these workers took pride in their work, calling their teams "Friends of Khufu," "Drunkards of Menkaure," and so on—names indicating allegiances to pharaohs.

    An estimated 20,000 to 30,000 workers built the Pyramids at Giza over 80 years. Much of the work probably happened while the River Nile was flooded.

    Huge limestone blocks could be floated from quarries right to the base of the Pyramids. The stones would likely then be polished by hand and pushed up ramps to their intended positions.

    It took more than manual labor, though. Architects achieved an accurate pyramid shape by running ropes from the outer corners up to the planned summit, to make sure the stones were positioned correctly. And priests-astronomers helped choose the pyramids' sites and orientations, so that they would be on the appropriate axis in relation to sacred constellations.

    From stone pusher to priest, every worker would likely have recognized his or her role in continuing the life-and-death cycle of the pharaohs, and thereby in perpetuating the glory of Egypt.

    more...

    Here's a fairly decent site with the basics on pyramid building: http://www.touregypt.net/construction/

    Quote from: donatelo on November 23, 2010, 06:05 PM
    Correct, and almost every other ancient religion has also got myths of gods coming from the stars heaven Tongue.


    Fixed.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #35 - November 23, 2010, 06:33 PM
    Also, you need to understand that pyramid construction was a gradual science learned over hundreds of years. The shape and size evolved progressively. They started off very basic and much smaller and gradually became more impressive with succesive generations. They didn't just appear overnight, helped along by aliens.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #36 - November 23, 2010, 06:33 PM
    According to wikipedia, the giza pyramid has 8000 tones of granite, so its not a small amount Smiley.

    I was already reading that article on nat geo, but the question is, have they really found any evidence of those ramps and roads, etc or is it just speculation? If you find any info on buried tools, maps, drawings depicting how they did the work, etc, I'd be interested in seeing it Smiley

    And as for heavens.. see what I wrote above  re heavenly bodies Smiley. Many of the religions even have descriptions of the sort of flying vehicles used by the gods, e.g book of enoch in old testament, vimanas in hinduism, etc.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
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    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #37 - November 23, 2010, 06:49 PM
    Check the other site I linked.

    Also, I'm not doing the research for you. Unless you're gonna pay me. And I've only got passing interest in the idea that some of the greatest accomplishments of mankind are in fact not of this world. Luckily, the idea is more interesting and imaginative than the miracles of the Qur'an, because its not much less absurd.

    Listen, you're already mostly sold on this idea. I think you're trying to convince yourself rather than convince anyone else. If you want to think the pyramids were built by aliens, by all means carry on. I can't stop you living in a fantasy world, but you can't drag me into it with you Smiley
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #38 - November 23, 2010, 07:09 PM
    Come on now, be nice  Kiss. I'm not interested in living in a fantasy either, so I did some basic research, and this is what I found:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramid_construction_techniques

    Quote
    The unknowns of pyramid construction chiefly center on the question of how the blocks were moved up the superstructure. There is no known accurate historical or archaeological evidence that definitively resolves the question. Therefore, most discussion on construction methods involves functional possibilities that are supported by limited historical and archaeological evidence...

    Most Egyptologists acknowledge that ramps are the most tenable of the methods to raise the blocks, yet they acknowledge that it is an incomplete method that must be supplemented by another device. Archaeological evidence for the use of ramps has been found at the Great Pyramid of Giza[18] and other pyramids. The method most accepted for assisting ramps is levering [19] (Lehner 1997: 222). The archaeological record gives evidence of only small ramps and inclined causeways, not something that could have been used to construct even a majority of the monument. To add to the uncertainty, there is considerable evidence demonstrating that non-standardized or ad hoc construction methods were used in pyramid construction.


    That's pretty much it in terms of evidence. The rest of the article is about various hypothesis's, however each one is listed as unproven, and/or having other flaws, for example:

    Quote
    Davidovits' method is not accepted by the academic mainstream. His method does not explain the granite stones, weighing well over 10 tons, above the "King's Chamber", which he agrees were carved....

    Dipayan Jana, a petrographer, made a presentation to the ICMA (International Cement Microscopy Association) in 2007[41] and gave a paper[42] in which he discusses Davidovits' and Barsoum's work and concludes "we are far from accepting even as a remote possibility of a “manmade” origin of pyramid stones."


    From this, its pretty evident that we do not have a plausible explanation of how the pyramids were built which is also backed by evidence. As a result the scale is still tipped in favor of extra terrestrial technology being used for the pyramids.  cool2
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
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    Previously donatelo
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    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #39 - November 23, 2010, 07:16 PM
    Another thing to consider is that if they indeed used those ramps and tools to build the pyramids, there should've been tons of them being discovered, yet all that are found are a few small ramps? A heck of a lot of them would be needed to build such a giant pyramid, where did it all go when other evidence like the workers' villages, etc still exists?
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
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    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #40 - November 23, 2010, 07:19 PM

    I wish it were true.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #41 - November 23, 2010, 07:19 PM
    Quote from: donatelo on November 23, 2010, 07:09 PM
    From this, its pretty evident that we do not have a plausible explanation of how the pyramids were built which is also backed by evidence. As a result the scale is still tipped in favor of extra terrestrial technology being used for the pyramids.




    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #42 - November 23, 2010, 07:23 PM
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
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    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #43 - November 23, 2010, 07:27 PM
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #44 - November 23, 2010, 07:35 PM
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
    --
    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #45 - November 23, 2010, 07:42 PM
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theories_about_Stonehenge
    Quote
    Estimates of the manpower needed to build Stonehenge put the total effort involved at millions of hours of work.[citation needed] Stonehenge 1 probably needed around 11,000 man-hours (or 460 man-days) of work, Stonehenge 2 around 360,000 (15,000 man-days or 41 years). The various parts of Stonehenge 3 may have involved up to 1.75 million hours (73,000 days or 200 years) of work. The working of the stones is estimated to have required around 20 million hours (830,000 days or 2,300 years) of work using the primitive tools available at the time.[citation needed] Certainly, the will to produce such a site must have been strong, and an advanced social organization would have been necessary to build and maintain it. However, Wally Wallington's work suggests that Stonehenge's construction may have required fewer man-hours than previously estimated.

    Note that the estimate of 20 million man-hours means that 10,000 men working on the site for 20 days each year, for 8 hours per day, could have completed it in 12.5 years.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
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    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #46 - November 23, 2010, 09:06 PM

    I don't believe any of this shit, but I love reading about them, great stories  Afro
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #47 - November 23, 2010, 09:14 PM
    Yeah makes for great fiction Smiley
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #48 - November 24, 2010, 05:03 AM
    I don't 'believe' believe it either, since you can never be sure about this stuff unless you witnessed it firsthand. But I'm inclined to consider it a strong possibility because of the strong evidence Wink
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
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    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #49 - November 24, 2010, 06:37 AM
    it isn't "strong evidence" as their isn't evidence of aliens at all only the absence of evidence that we know what happened.  Angels could have come down and pushed the rocks beside humans if we were so inclined to believe angels hovered around.  I still like the fan fiction, I imagine it as a modern day version of all that angel, Mother Mary, handiwork of Satan fables of yonder years.  Kind of like the Jersey Devil. 
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #50 - November 24, 2010, 08:40 AM
    The lack of evidence in this case is rather significant. When you have a huge structure like the giza pyramid that was built, the tools used in building that (e.g ramps) would've been gigantic,  immense in number, and should be found everywhere, but they're nowhere to be found at all? I think that implies strongly that no such tools were used, and perhaps the tools which were used were taken away by the makers of those tools when they left the earth.  

    That's just talking about how they transported the huge blocks of stone to the heights of the pyramid, when you consider how stones as strong as granite were carved when all they had were primitive tools, the likelihood of it being pure human work decreases even further.

    Also, when I say strong evidence, I'm not just talking about the pyramid, I'm talking about a large number of things, e.g ancient artifacts and paintings showing spacecrafts and aircrafts, a number of ancient religious myths that all talk about beings coming from heavens, other monolith structures like the stonehenge for which there is no evidence that they were built with primitive tools, and/or which were too precise/advanced to have been built with primitive technology. I recommend watching the documentary that i linked to if you want to see all the evidence. Wink

    Of course you can believe it was the work of angels, but there is no probable cause to believe in that, whereas considering the size of the universe, its quite probable that aliens might exist  mysmilie_977
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
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    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #51 - November 24, 2010, 10:18 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk

    That is all.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #52 - November 24, 2010, 02:20 PM
    ^ Good vid
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
    --
    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #53 - November 25, 2010, 11:33 AM
    I found a response on Nasa's website about the pyramid issue:
    http://astrobiology.nasa.gov/ask-an-astrobiologist/question/?id=5424

    Quote
    Question
    NASA has denied the existence of Aliens, and NASA claims that there is no proof that the aliens have ever visited the earth, my question will be regarding the egyptian pyramids, do you seriously think that people living thousands of yours BC have build the great pyramids? One more question is how does NASA explain the "face" and the "pyramids" found at Cydonia, in planet MARS.

    Unfortunately, quite a few people have fallen for these alien-pseudoscience claims, so I will briefly answer your questions, even though they are not directly related to astrobiology. (1) NASA does not deny the existence of aliens. Most astrobiologists anticipate billions of inhabited planets, including many that are the home to intelligent creatures. We just know we have not yet found any direct evidence of life, even microbes, on another planet. But absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence. (2) Historians and architects understand how the Egyptian pyramids were built. They were a great accomplishment, the only one of the original Seven Wonders of the World that still stand. No one who who studies them scientifically suggests they were built by aliens. Remember, the ancient Egyptians were just as smart as we are, and Egypt had the excess food productivity to allow construction of many such labor-intensive monuments in the Nile Valley over a period two thousand years. (3) There is no face on Mars, just a mesa that when viewed under the right lighting at low resolution looks like a face. In recent high resolution photos by Mars orbiters, it is revealed as just another eroded mesa. I have discussed these claims in detail in earlier posts (use the search engine), and most recently in the “UFO issue” of Skeptical Inquirer published last month. With so many fascinating things in science being discovered every week, it is a shame that you have apparently fallen for these fairly tales. Believe me, the real world is much more interesting!

    David Morrison
    NAI Senior Scientist
    March 13, 2009


    He has a good point about the face/pyramids on mars. I'm not too convinced about the egyptian pyramids, because he claims that 'No one who who studies them scientifically suggests they were built by aliens' whereas I've quoted from a petrographer in my last message who says 'We're not close to accepting even as a remote possibility a man-made origin of the pyramids." Furthermore the lack of evidence of tools and other points I've brought up remain a problem...
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
    --
    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #54 - November 28, 2010, 10:44 AM
    Maybe humans time-travelled from the future and have been 'guiding' their ancestors because they know the future is not looking good....so they inflenced and inspired religions, to influence the thinking of humans in the past,

    Maybe time-travellers went to explore history and ended up affecting it....

    Maybe it was aliens....

    Maybe it's just all mis-interpreted....

    I don't know, but I love maybes, thanks for the link to the Doc. Donatela!

     Smiley
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #55 - November 28, 2010, 11:27 AM
    Maybe 2012 is the year the 'aliens' will come back! lol
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #56 - November 28, 2010, 11:33 AM
    Maybe aliens sowed the seeds of humanity (and in their image) and left it on earth....came back to check on us, how their experiment is going, and affected out development, and they will come back in the future! (or our ancestors hope they will come back) maybe those aliens have died out now....
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #57 - November 28, 2010, 11:56 AM
     wacko
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
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    Previously donatelo
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    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #58 - November 28, 2010, 12:07 PM
    in a land with acute wood shortage, does someone really think that the wood used for ramps would be found somewhere??? If ramps have been used, the wood was most certainly re-used or used as fuel. An other idea is that ramps have not been used at all, but that layers of earth have been used as ramps and in the end the huge hill cleared away and only the stone that was brought stood out.

    see ya
    B.
    Quote from: FreeSoul007 on January 14, 2011, 05:00 AM
    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: Ancient Aliens
     Reply #59 - November 28, 2010, 12:18 PM
    ^ Good Point re wood being re-used, I hadn't thought of that. That still leaves out how they carved 8000 tons of grinate, however.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
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