Hadiths and authenticity

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- Teetertotter
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Hadiths and authenticity
OP - December 14, 2010, 05:22 PM

What is the basis for considering a Hadith sahih? Among Sunnis or Shias. Is it the the author/collector of the hadiths or the individuals they interviewed?
- Ishina
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Re: Hadiths and authenticity
Reply #1 - December 14, 2010, 05:36 PM

Quote
Ṣaḥīḥ

Ṣaḥīḥ, (صَحِيْح), is best translated as authentic. Ibn Hajar defines a hadith that is ṣaḥīḥ lithatihi, ṣaḥīḥ in and of itself, as a singular narration (ahaad – see below) conveyed by a trustworthy, completely competent person, either in his ability to memorize or to preserve what he wrote, with a muttaṣil (connected) isnād (chain of narration) that contains neither a serious concealed flaw (ʻillah) nor irregularity (shādhdh). He then defines a hadith that is ṣaḥīḥ ligharihi, ṣaḥīḥ due to external factors, as a hadith "with something, such as numerous chains of narration, strengthening it."

This definition of Ibn Hajar illustrates that there are five conditions to be met for a particular hadith to be considered ṣaḥīḥ. The first, is that each narrator in the chain of narration must be trustworthy. The second, each narrator must be reliable in his ability to preserve that narration – be it in his ability to memorize to the extent that he can recall it as he heard it, or, that he has written it as he heard it, and has preserved that written document unchanged. The third, the isnād must be connected, muttasil, in that each narrator could have at least conceivably heard from the previous narrator. The fourth, that the hadith, including its isnād be free of an 'illah or hidden, but detrimental, flaw – such as it being established that two narrators, while having been contemporaries, never, in fact, met thus causing a break in that 'chain'. And fifth, that that hadith be free of irregularity, meaning that it not contradict another hadith better established than it.

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- Teetertotter
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Re: Hadiths and authenticity
Reply #2 - December 14, 2010, 06:04 PM

So the collectors themselves are never looked at? What if they just made some sh*t up?

Like here, from Bukhari's collection:

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 179:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Turks; people with small eyes, red faces, and flat noses. Their faces will look like shields coated with leather. The Hour will not be established till you fight with people whose shoes are made of hair."

Bukhara and its surroundings around Bukhari's time was being overrun by a loose federation of these Turks, who eventually conquered Bukhara and its surroundings. I took this to mean that Bukhari had inserted Turks into the Hadiths, making his whole collection questionable. I'm going to be presenting this to someone and I want to have all my facts in line before I do.
- Zebedee
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Re: Hadiths and authenticity
Reply #3 - December 14, 2010, 06:15 PM

A lot of people suspect Abu Huraira's ahadith because apparently he made shit up. I think he told people hadiths in exchange for money, or something.

And hadith are 'rated' by numerous different scholars, all of whom take different opinions on any given narration with regards to stuff like the reliability of the narrator, whether it can be traced directly to Muhammad, and so on.
- Ishina
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Re: Hadiths and authenticity
Reply #4 - December 14, 2010, 06:17 PM

Quote from: Teetertotter on December 14, 2010, 06:04 PM
What if they just made some sh*t up?

Sahih hadith also contain buraq, jinn, talking trees and stones, and Satan breaking wind. Go figure.

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- Teetertotter
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Re: Hadiths and authenticity
Reply #5 - December 14, 2010, 06:58 PM

I'm running into the same issues as a nonbeliever trying to learn more about Islam as I did when I tried to learn more about Islam as a believer...how can you present absolute truths when your source is jumbled bullshit? grrr It seems they can weasel their way out of any argument because the source is jumbled bullshit, yet still cling to their absolute truths because of precedence.
- abzm94
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Re: Hadiths and authenticity
Reply #6 - December 14, 2010, 07:34 PM

Islamic so called science is vast at first sight. When you get down to the shit, then you see how stupidly complex it is.

Only the Muslims themselves have made it so complex. Which gives proof of the shit of the religion.
- deusvult
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Re: Hadiths and authenticity
Reply #7 - December 14, 2010, 07:45 PM

True. They did pretty good with what they had. You can't turn the world's biggest game of telephone into a science though.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
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Re: Hadiths and authenticity
Reply #8 - December 14, 2010, 07:58 PM

No no guys, it's all real! Either Bukhari or Muslim (can't remember) had a dream in which they saw Muhammed walking in front of him and he was following and was stepping into Muhammed's footsteps! It's a dream from Allah! SUBHANNALLAH!
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