Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale

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- Telomeme
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Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
OP - December 16, 2010, 08:21 PM

Forgive me if this kind of survey has already been done. There appear to be a range of beliefs on this site; from those who are certain of the existence of god(s), to those who are agnostic to those who are certain that no god(s) exists. Note that God has many definitions so I'll state upfront that I'm referring to a personal God(s), not some proverbial force like the Hawking/Einstein 'god'.

I'd also like to include the following video to clarify the real differences between atheism and agnosticism since there is often confusion in the terminology.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk&NR=1
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #1 - December 16, 2010, 08:24 PM

Didn't vote as I cannot put a percentage on it - I simply don't know.

I'm Agnostic.
- arX
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #2 - December 16, 2010, 08:25 PM

"I count myself in category 6, but leaning towards 7 - I am agnostic only to the extent that I am agnostic about fairies at the bottom of the garden."

-- Dawkins

Against the ruin of the world, there
is only one defense: the creative act.

-- Kenneth Rexroth
- Telomeme
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #3 - December 16, 2010, 08:34 PM

Quote from: Hassan on December 16, 2010, 08:24 PM
Didn't vote as I cannot put a percentage on it - I simply don't know.

I'm Agnostic.

I would say that general agnosticism (doubt of whether there is or is not a god(s)) is anywhere from the second to sixth option. If you don't lean either way, then I guess you'd be a true agnostic, at the forth option.
- mighty_cats
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #4 - December 16, 2010, 08:39 PM

I'm as strong an atheist as practicality and intellectual honesty allows.

I see absolutely no reason to believe that a god(s) exists and I see absolutely no justification for the idea from any angle so far.

On a side note, I tend to find it humorous how alot of non-believers in the world will say:
'Religion is nonsense, its made by man, its to control people, its nothing but fairytales and inflated archaic garbage that can easily be disproven'
then when you ask them about the being which is the entire foundation of the religion, its:
'God?....well.....you never know..'
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #5 - December 16, 2010, 08:41 PM

I think we have unanimous verdict.

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- Telomeme
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #6 - December 16, 2010, 08:42 PM

Well, there are lots of deists out there and then there are all the various definitions of what a god can be. I find it's much easier to dismiss specific religions than ambiguous gods.
- Winna
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #7 - December 16, 2010, 08:46 PM

Quote from: Telomeme on December 16, 2010, 08:34 PM
I would say that general agnosticism (doubt of whether there is or is not a god(s)) is anywhere from the second to sixth option. If you don't lean either way, then I guess you'd be a true agnostic, at the forth option.

I'm not so sure an agnostic can necessarily assign probabilities. Choosing a probability implies a certain assumption of knowledge/certitude about the assertion (being reasonable certain of some things, otherwise you can't "calculate" the probability of the end result - you need to admit you know something of relevance in order to calculate probability) - which is not something you should expect from an agnostic (even though they might, but I wouldn't expect it).

I don't find myself in the options either.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #8 - December 16, 2010, 08:49 PM

Most concepts of non religious belief, such as certain forms of deism and pantheism
just remove all usability of the word and definition 'god'.

It's often just a case of re-labelling crap around you, but then denying it's what you meant when the definition of that object comes into play.
I don't know how many times I've had this conversation:

'I believe god is energy'
'*gives definition of Energy*'
'thats not what I believe!'

It appears (for the most part) to just be a case of
'I have to believe in god..i just have too'
Then creating any possible way to make that a possibility.

You don't get to label crap with 'god' because of you can't survive without the 3 letter word in your life; Especially when the crap in question already has a label.
- Winna
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #9 - December 16, 2010, 08:55 PM

Quote from: Telomeme on December 16, 2010, 08:34 PM
Quote from: Hassan on December 16, 2010, 08:24 PM
Didn't vote as I cannot put a percentage on it - I simply don't know.

I'm Agnostic.

I would say that general agnosticism (doubt of whether there is or is not a god(s)) is anywhere from the second to sixth option. If you don't lean either way, then I guess you'd be a true agnostic, at the forth option.

My previous reply didn't come out too clear.

Maybe I should say rather: a-gnosticism is about knowledge, it says you don't know, exactly that you don't know (with or without "can't know" as well), while the assertions with probabilities about God's existence imply that you know something. You need to know some things relevant to the case in order to make an statement about God's existence (= a claimed fact) or its probability (the probability of a claimed fact to happen).

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #10 - December 16, 2010, 08:55 PM

Quote from: Winna on December 16, 2010, 08:46 PM
I'm not so sure an agnostic can necessarily assign probabilities. Choosing a probability implies a certain assumption of knowledge/certitude about the assertion (being reasonable certain of some things, otherwise you can't "calculate" the probability of the end result - you need to admit you know something of relevance in order to calculate probability) - which is not something you should expect from an agnostic (even though they might, but I wouldn't expect it).

This^

I see no convincing evidence of a God and no good reason to think one exists. In fact to postulate a God creates more problems than it answers.

But bottom line is I don't know and I won't pretend I do.
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #11 - December 16, 2010, 09:01 PM

Quote from: Hassan on December 16, 2010, 08:55 PM

But bottom line is I don't know and I won't pretend I do.

+1

Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #12 - December 16, 2010, 09:03 PM

Quote from: Winna on December 16, 2010, 08:55 PM
I would say that general agnosticism (doubt of whether there is or is not a god(s)) is anywhere from the second to sixth option. If you don't lean either way, then I guess you'd be a true agnostic, at the forth option.

My previous reply didn't come out too clear.

Maybe I should say rather: a-gnosticism is about knowledge, it says you don't know, exactly that you don't know (with or without "can't know" as well), while the assertions with probabilities about God's existence imply that you know something. You need to know some things relevant to the case in order to make an statement about God's existence (= a claimed fact) or its probability (the probability of a claimed fact to happen).

Perhaps I should have labeled these options without probabilities since that gets misleading when speaking of personal beliefs. I'll see if I can edit the poll to get something a little more intuitive.
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #13 - December 16, 2010, 09:04 PM

I put exactly agnostic. There is no way of us really knowing.

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
~Sir Richard Francis Burton

"I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #14 - December 16, 2010, 09:05 PM

Maybe you can add another option. There are people who feel reasonable certain of some things of relevance so they can choose a probability as far as I can see.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #15 - December 16, 2010, 09:09 PM

Quote from: Cool Canadian on December 16, 2010, 09:04 PM
I put exactly agnostic. There is no way of us really knowing.

You're right that there is no way of us really knowing but we each have opinions that may lean in certain directions.
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #16 - December 16, 2010, 09:10 PM

Quote from: Winna on December 16, 2010, 09:05 PM
Maybe you can add another option. There are people who feel reasonable certain of some things of relevance so they can choose a probability as far as I can see.

I've updated the options so that it's more explicitly about one's beliefs, not actual objective probabilities. Hopefully that makes this clearer.
- Winna
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #17 - December 16, 2010, 09:12 PM

Thanks Telomeme. I think I can vote now...

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #18 - December 16, 2010, 09:12 PM

Quote from: Winna on December 16, 2010, 08:55 PM
Maybe I should say rather: a-gnosticism is about knowledge, it says you don't know, exactly that you don't know (with or without "can't know" as well), while the assertions with probabilities about God's existence imply that you know something. You need to know some things relevant to the case in order to make an statement about God's existence (= a claimed fact) or its probability (the probability of a claimed fact to happen).

Which God? If a god hypothesis was put forward claiming that man was created by such an entity as he is today (and woman an offshoot from man's rib), then doesn't our knowledge have something relevant to say about it?

Against the ruin of the world, there
is only one defense: the creative act.

-- Kenneth Rexroth
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #19 - December 16, 2010, 09:17 PM

Quote from: arX on December 16, 2010, 09:12 PM
Which God? If a god hypothesis was put forward claiming that man was created by such an entity as he is today (and woman an offshoot from man's rib), then doesn't our knowledge have something relevant to say about it?

Being Agnostic usually means one rejects all religions - and their notion of God. (It certainly does in my case at least.)
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #20 - December 16, 2010, 09:27 PM

Again - so which god? If you reject religions' notions of gods, then what notion of god are you agnostic to? It seems very ambiguous.

Against the ruin of the world, there
is only one defense: the creative act.

-- Kenneth Rexroth
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #21 - December 16, 2010, 09:31 PM

I assume he's agnostic about there being a deistic or non-personal god.

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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #22 - December 16, 2010, 09:37 PM

Quote from: arX on December 16, 2010, 09:27 PM
Again - so which god? If you reject religions' notions of gods, then what notion of god are you agnostic to? It seems very ambiguous.

I am agnostic to the possibility of a God that is beyond my imagination, conception and ability to define.
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #23 - December 16, 2010, 09:46 PM

So why are you calling it "God"? By doing so, you are already attributing some concept to what you say is beyond your "imagination, conception and ability to define".

Quote
I assume he's agnostic about there being a deistic or non-personal god.

I guess not. Even if that was the case (as it is with many agnostics), what makes them atheist regarding a 'religious' personal god but agnostic even to the point of being unable to assert any probabilities about any other god hypothesis.

Against the ruin of the world, there
is only one defense: the creative act.

-- Kenneth Rexroth
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #24 - December 16, 2010, 09:48 PM

What if I don't care if he exists or not?

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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #25 - December 16, 2010, 09:48 PM

Quote from: Hassan on December 16, 2010, 09:37 PM
I am agnostic to the possibility of a God that is beyond my imagination, conception and ability to define.

When you talk about a God beyond your imagination, would such an entity include a personal god (i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_god) or only the non-personal Einsteinium god?
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #26 - December 16, 2010, 09:51 PM

Quote from: Lukatic on December 16, 2010, 09:48 PM
What if I don't care if he exists or not?

I don't really care whether Mars is reddish or greenish but I still lean towards the belief that it's reddish.
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #27 - December 16, 2010, 09:53 PM

Quote from: arX on December 16, 2010, 09:46 PM
So why are you calling it "God"? By doing so, you are already attributing some concept to what you say is beyond your "imagination, conception and ability to define".

I use God for the lack of a better word. By definition any word is inadequate for something that is beyond conception.
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #28 - December 16, 2010, 09:55 PM

Quote from: Cool Canadian on December 16, 2010, 09:04 PM
I put exactly agnostic. There is no way of us really knowing.

Are you an agnostic towards everything you've ever heard about, but not been able to directly verify?
fairies? monsters under the bed? santa? lochness monster? my pet godzilla in the Andromeda galaxy?
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Re: Your belief in God(s) on the Dawkin's Scale
Reply #29 - December 16, 2010, 09:55 PM

Quote from: Telomeme on December 16, 2010, 09:51 PM
I don't really care whether Mars is reddish or greenish but I still lean towards the belief that it's reddish.

Ok, in that case, this seems apt for me.

Quote from: arX on December 16, 2010, 08:25 PM
"I count myself in category 6, but leaning towards 7 - I am agnostic only to the extent that I am agnostic about fairies at the bottom of the garden."

-- Dawkins

"He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
~ Douglas Adams
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