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 Topic: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation

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  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     OP - December 23, 2010, 05:39 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJyeuXtZFuQ

    Muslims believe the Qur’an to be the word of God as dictated to the Prophet Mohammed, while most Christians and Jews understand their holy texts to be authored by men inspired by God. This distinction means that critical analysis of the sacred texts, which have so enlightened Jewish and Christian thinking since the 16th Century, becomes an extremely sensitive issue when its applied to the Qur’an. And it doesn’t help when those scholars making the attempt are largely western non-Muslims.

    Can their studies really shed new light on the text and its origins?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #1 - December 23, 2010, 05:58 AM
    fascinating stuff, thanks for posting
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #2 - December 23, 2010, 07:47 AM
    i remember this documentary from a few years back.. its not a new one..
    today atheistmadiablog (awesome channel btw)
    and klingschor posted it ..
    i was hoping to see some kind of new outcome from it .. or a continuation
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV9vdUjuWxc
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #3 - December 23, 2010, 07:52 AM
    Quote from: nessrriinn on December 23, 2010, 07:47 AM
    i remember this documentary from a few years back.. its not a new one..
    today atheistmadiablog (awesome channel btw)
    and klingschor posted it ..
    i was hoping to see some kind of new outcome from it .. or a continuation


    Same here. I too thought it was some new stuff that they discovered. But nice documentary none the less. I enjoyed watching it again. Thanks for sharing.  Afro
    ...
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #4 - December 23, 2010, 10:12 AM
    So much for a perfectly preserved message.  The Sanu Manuscripts are a perfectly preserved mistake!
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #5 - December 23, 2010, 10:17 AM
    Quote from: Ishina on December 23, 2010, 05:39 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJyeuXtZFuQ

    @14.30: "... is it a product of European Orientalism?" (and Islamophobia no doubt)

    Does anybody know who that guy is; I have seen him before somewhere - in another documentary.
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #6 - December 23, 2010, 10:18 AM
    Quote from: nessrriinn on December 23, 2010, 07:47 AM
    i remember this documentary from a few years back.. its not a new one..
    today atheistmadiablog (awesome channel btw)
    and klingschor posted it ..
    i was hoping to see some kind of new outcome from it .. or a continuation

  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #7 - December 23, 2010, 01:30 PM
    Quote from: nessrriinn on December 23, 2010, 07:47 AM
    i remember this documentary from a few years back.. its not a new one..


    Yeah, its nothing new.

    We were just chatting about the origins of Islam in another thread, then that vid popped up on that atheist channel, so figured people might be interested in it.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #8 - December 23, 2010, 01:38 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on December 23, 2010, 10:17 AM
    Does anybody know who that guy is; I have seen him before somewhere - in another documentary.



    Taj Hargey
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #9 - December 23, 2010, 01:43 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on December 23, 2010, 05:39 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJyeuXtZFuQ

    Muslims believe the Qur’an to be the word of God as dictated to the Prophet Mohammed, while most Christians and Jews understand their holy texts to be authored by men inspired by God. This distinction means that critical analysis of the sacred texts, which have so enlightened Jewish and Christian thinking since the 16th Century, becomes an extremely sensitive issue when its applied to the Qur’an. And it doesn’t help when those scholars making the attempt are largely western non-Muslims.

    Can their studies really shed new light on the text and its origins?


    I wish some one could translate those texts..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #10 - December 23, 2010, 01:49 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on December 23, 2010, 01:38 PM

    Taj Hargey

    thx
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #11 - December 23, 2010, 02:01 PM
    Nice resource.
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #12 - December 23, 2010, 03:35 PM
    Wow. that was enlightning. When the narrator talked bout that piece of parchement, where there were erased verses with differend meanings and words, my mouth didnt stop gaping, and the glass if juice which i was trying to lift off the desk stood t mid air. I was freezingly shocked (the details are meant to make u go wow with me too  grin12 ). It was a Da vinci Code moment for me.
     BTW is it only 15 minutes Huh? that sucks  Cry
    <AliIsAli>: in ur sharia law, am i to be killed???
    <ghutlu>: Yes sure sure u should 4 firstly Being Ex muslim
     <ghutlu>:  for leaving ISLAM
     <AliIsAli>: would u kill me if u saw me?
     <ghutlu>: yes surely
     <AliIsAli>: :(
     <ghutlu>: by the way gay is just a mental problem
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #13 - December 23, 2010, 06:32 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on December 23, 2010, 10:17 AM
    @14.30: "... is it a product of European Orientalism?" (and Islamophobia no doubt)

    Does anybody know who that guy is; I have seen him before somewhere - in another documentary.


    yah he's head of the Muslim education centre of oxford - he was one of the organisers of the Islamic Refrom Concerence at oxford university I attended a while back. he's a bit stuck-up actually, not a nice person
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #14 - December 23, 2010, 06:41 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on December 23, 2010, 06:32 PM
    he's a bit stuck-up actually, not a nice person

    Really? That's interesting. What gave you that impression; were you able to talk to him during the conference?
    I checked out a few of his articles and he comes across as a fairly reasonable guy.
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #15 - December 23, 2010, 06:48 PM
    no, and i didn't really want to. his views on islam may be fairly reasonable, very reasonable actually compared to a lot of Muslims, but we had incidents where he shouted down members of the audience for asking simple questions regarding the format of the conference and was trying his best to dominate the conference for some wierd reason - which kind of ruined the conference actually.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #16 - December 23, 2010, 07:51 PM
    AbuY - in your former incarnation as a Quran-only Muslim, what were your views on Zakir NoLike?
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #17 - December 23, 2010, 08:10 PM
    The architectural drawings are fascinating. I wonder if they are a primitive version of diagrams such as the Kabbalistic tree of life and so on...
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #18 - December 23, 2010, 08:41 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on December 23, 2010, 07:51 PM
    AbuY - in your former incarnation as a Quran-only Muslim, what were your views on Zakir NoLike?


    never liked him - actually used to get pissed off that he was surrounded by so many nodding heads both on and of the tv studios
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #19 - December 23, 2010, 08:50 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on December 23, 2010, 08:41 PM
    never liked him - actually used to get pissed off that he was surrounded by so many nodding heads

    You mean Sheep abuyunus2?/


     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg2HkQ46snI

    Hey.. Your cap,  your tie  and your goat beard is made up of the molecules that are in silk.. burn them all
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #20 - December 23, 2010, 09:05 PM
    Quote from: z10 on December 23, 2010, 08:10 PM
    The architectural drawings are fascinating. I wonder if they are a primitive version of diagrams such as the Kabbalistic tree of life and so on...


    A good question to ask would be if Kabbalistic thinking or practices where common or well known in the Jewish population of Arabia in that time.

    I don't know the answer, but it is a GREAT question !
    El bien mas preciado / es la libertad
    hay que defenderla / con fe y valor.
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #21 - December 23, 2010, 09:29 PM
    Well, I don't want to go too far off topic but briefly there is quite a controversy over the origin of the kabbalah. The kabbalists themselves state that it was developed around 200ad, but many critics date it more around the 12th century. However, even if kabbalah itself was developed later there were many other such diagramatic systems around at the time that could influence these architectural drawings.
    Neoplatonism was a big influence over Syria, Egypt and surrounding areas at the time and the beliefs of that metaphysical system include alot of diagrams of the "monad" "triad" and so on that attempt to show the cosmology of the world/ soul etc.
    It would not be too far fetched to think that this would have an influence over the arabic cosmology that was being developed at the same time.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The Qur'an - Original Manuscript and Interpretation
     Reply #22 - December 24, 2010, 04:25 AM
    The fact that there are illustrations in the oldest known qur'an is uite fascinating (I'm talking about the architectural drawing, not the decorations always found in the margains of any qur'an available today). It is know that sharia law forbids drawing any kind of form of life. and if my eyes don't fail me, in that building thingie, it apears that there are people inside. And a second note on that illustraion is that it looks alot like the old and new testaments. Never before I've seen an illustrated qur'an. I'm just wondering what else we didn't see or read, or infact whether earlier qur'anic scriptures exist at all to be seen and read  Huh?
    <AliIsAli>: in ur sharia law, am i to be killed???
    <ghutlu>: Yes sure sure u should 4 firstly Being Ex muslim
     <ghutlu>:  for leaving ISLAM
     <AliIsAli>: would u kill me if u saw me?
     <ghutlu>: yes surely
     <AliIsAli>: :(
     <ghutlu>: by the way gay is just a mental problem
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