So you are saying that
extremely severe torture in hell for eternity to polytheists is justified because:
1) We can not understand the wisdom of Allah
2) Allah owns us so he has the right to do anything to his creation.
We should not question him
You could have said this in the very first post. Should have saved us so much time
Along with these points you also find God to be a
Loving God?
lol, but thats not exactly what I said. You ommitted some of the things I said and I can see why, but I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt.
I said the price of disobeying God is eternal punishment, but because of His Justice and Mercy He will either Forgive you (because of your good deeds), or Punish you temporarily. But if you refused to worship idols even after a Messenger/Prophet was sent with proof, miracles and signs, then God will leave you to those idols. As you clinged on to them.
Anyway, I sacrificed my time for the sake of God, so I don't think I wasted my time. Debunker and another person sent me a PM and told me not to bother, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt.
If you require anymore information, then you should ask someone more qualified.
I wasn't expecting you to jump out of your seat and scream "Yes! This man has saved me!!!" lol
I don't think we are getting anywhere because from what I see, you made up your mind before you asked me a single question.
Anyway I hope you find your path, I am happy with the path I have chosen.
Thanks
So your response to the question of Eternal Torture is:
1. God does as He pleases.
2. The Punishment for disobeying God is Eternal
3. But out of Mercy & Justice, God will forgive some.
4. We cannot comprehending God. Nor His actions, nor His wisdom.
5. We shouldn't question His actions - if we do we will slip down a slippery slope.
6. I would never question any of his actions.
7. He has the right to do as He pleases,
8. We cannot understand God because of our limitations
9. We cannot make conclusions about any of His actions.
10. God is the only true creator.
11. Everything belongs to God, this gives Him the right to do as He pleases
12. He cannot be judged, nor can we come to a conclusion about His actions, we cannot understand Him.Is that a fair summary?
So we shouldn't use limited human reason to judge aspects of Islam such as Eternal Hell - but must accept them on faith and not question them
lest we slide down the slippery slope into disbelief.There are aspects of Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism, Bahai'ism, Mormonism, Scientology and so on... That make no rational sense.
Shall I just have faith in them and not question
"lest I slide down the slippery slope into disbelief."?Or are the principles of ignoring human reason, not questioning and taking things on faith - only to be applied to Islam?
Atleast that's a fair summary of what I was saying!
No, ofcourse we should use our reason, and if something doesn't make sense to you, then you should seek the answer.
I am satisfied with what Islam offers in terms of rationality.
I am not here to attack anyone for their beliefs. I looked at all the religions out there other than Islam, and I came to the conclusion that it was the one that made most sense to me.
Much of my life was spent searching, and after looking at all the arguments, it was either Islam or being agnostic.
Christianity was extremely problematic for me, I still remember the amount of errors I saw when I first picked it up and read Genesis. Right there on the first page, God creates plants without the sun. And there was night and day without the sun, and it says that there were two great lights. One to appear in the day (Sun) and one to appear in the night (moon), but we know that the moon only reflects light. Amongst other things, Lot sleeping with his daughters, Jacob wrestling God...
Judaism I saw as a tribal religion, and they have to follow 613 laws, whereas the none jews, known as the noahides, had to only follow 7, so what's the point in becoming a jew.
Hinduism, traditionally women had no spiritual path and they would perform sati, sometimes by force, would throw themselves on a fire to burn with the corpse of their husbands and it took the British to ban it. Also I found it interesting that their gods resembled monkeys and elephants, as you find them in india, but not in every part of the world, and also that they bowed to cows and drank their urine and even used it for blessings.
It definitely didn't seem like a universal religion.
I don't want to open up another debate about religion now, and these are not the only problems I have with these religions. These are just basic answers I can think of now.
Once I embraced Islam, I thought to myself "ok now I have to find out what sect to choose from" lol. Fortunetely The majority are Sunni.
But at first I was really attracted to shia Islam, due to their claim that they followed the family of the Prophet (SAW). Also because I knew many shia's who were friends of mine. They constantly barraged me with questions, and because I didn't know about the historical aspects of Islam, I gave them the benefit of the doubt.
With time, I did my research and saw that they either relied on conspiracy theories that they fabricated, or took reliable reports and exaggerated them. These days whenever I debate a shia, I already know what their script is going to be
When I finally chose my path, I started praying, and calling on to God, I saw things that a person can't describe, and fulfillment of all my dua.
Sometimes I would be in the middle of a dua, once I would finish I would get a phone call that was completely out of the blue, regarding the situation I was asking God to help me with.
Basically I suffered alot from depression and it's a long story.
God used to answer all of my duas when I first got into Islam properly, that carried on for two full years (as I was a psuedo Muslim prior to that).
I developed over time a strong relationship with God.
But for the last year, it has been extremely rough, and I am still waiting for that answer from God, and alhamdulilah I still have hope.
At the moment I am writing a book about Islam and I hope to release it next year.
Btw, I am not attacking anyone's beliefs.
I can totally believe that you did all your research. But I do have serious issues with your research because you are discarding the solid proofs of evolution as atheist propaganda.
Can you tell me if you don't mind what is your level of education and how many advanced level of science courses have you taken?
You do not need to hurry. You can take your time. Whenever you have free time, you can get back with your reply.
Also what kind of God's perfect wisdom is it that he create human males with foreskin and ask their parents to cut them off? (circumcision)
WHAT THE HELL!
You obviously have no clue, you didn't read the last thing I said to debunker, or you read it improperly.
I never said evolution is not true, if you read what I said before you would have realised that.
Now do you understand why I hate engaging in conversation with you? You misread, and assume, and have the mentality of a 2 year old.
This question now is just as stupid as the previous one. I think I see a pattern.
I took two degree in University, a degree in Pharmaceutical science, and another one in Computer Science.
Now I don't see what this has to do with anything and if you can't be bothered to read what people
As for your question on the foreskin YOU GOT ME! lol I can't front, you got me right where you want me! There's no escape for me.
Why are you so obsessed with this question? You asked it before. It is just hygienic to get rid of it.
You think that because God decided to leave a piece of flesh on a man's penis, this puts his wisdom into disrepute?
It is definitely a product of evolution, and I never said I disagree with it, but you obviously thought I did, so you thought this question was going to blow me away and told me to calm my nerves and take my time in responding lol.
Why do we have toenails? Come on now! This is getting ridiculous.
I think you and I, should just keep out of each others way, just like I told MAS, it was nice talking to you, you're still young, you have a long life ahead of you.
It was so nice talking to you, what an awesome experience! But I would rather you spared me.
I wonder why Aba deserted me. Is it because I blew him kisses hot with seduction? I would have made a good shaytan out of him. Let me also take a moment to welcome MAS. Many apologies for descending on your thread like a party of drunken yobs without so much as greeting Your Excellency. I've been reading your stuff and I liketh what I see. On display is a vigorous mind well inoculated against the contagion of clerical stupidity. May the Shaytan bless your journey. Ameen.
lol because even though I respect your intelligence and eloquence, you are extremely juvenile in your approach.
You seem like someone who is fun to hang out with, but not to have a serious discussion with, especially not about religion.
If you want to talk to me about anything else, I am happy to talk to you though.
Not related to you. But I want to commend
DEBUNKER on not only his patience, but I have read his earlier posts, and he is definitely not a lightweight.
I think people are being way too harsh on him, but then again that is expected in a forum like this.
Topic: Hi from on the fence muslim