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 Topic: Hi from on the fence muslim

 (Read 119687 times)
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  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #360 - January 14, 2011, 12:06 AM
    How'd you know?
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #361 - January 14, 2011, 12:07 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 14, 2011, 12:04 AM
    Yeah I am sure people many people claim to know.  Even some atheists.

    But I know thats not a claim you make from our previous discussions.  So back to my original question if you will Sir Wink


    well then, I really don't know.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #362 - January 14, 2011, 12:09 AM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on January 14, 2011, 12:06 AM
    How'd you know?


    Because Sunnis (specially salafis) would do anything, absolutely anything, to justify Hadiths in the books of their prophets Bukhari and Muslim, including adopting the heretical method you just described.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #363 - January 14, 2011, 12:10 AM
    Quote from: debunker on January 14, 2011, 12:07 AM
    well then, I really don't know.

    I realise its a difficult question to answer quantitatively, but out of interest what % do you believe Islam is true? As in not manmade?
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  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #364 - January 14, 2011, 12:19 AM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on January 14, 2011, 12:00 AM
    Steady now, quit poking a finger in my eyes with glee. Does the homoerotic content of my postings trouble you my
    sweet? We can take it real slow. You don't have to do anything you don't want. I won't pinch your nipples or grip your thigh or whisper soft words in your ear.

    Stray question: Do you know what a boundlessly tedious chore it is to read your witless, charmless, mirthless scribblings? Not just your own. Every keyboard philosopher's. A sense of the absurd is quite, quite vital. Foolish is the man who takes himself too seriously. Don't confound humour with frivolity.


    You have serious mental problems, and from what I understand you have children too, I wonder what kind of father you'd make.
    Grow up dumbass! And I like to joke around but your jokes are just disturbing. It's like being hit on by a 50 year old grandad.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #365 - January 14, 2011, 12:21 AM
    .
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #366 - January 14, 2011, 12:25 AM
    Quote from: AbaAbdillah on January 14, 2011, 12:19 AM
    You have serious mental problems, and from what I understand you have children too, I wonder what kind of father you'd make.
    Grow up dumbass! And I like to joke around but your jokes are just disturbing. It's like being hit on by a 50 year old grandad.


    He has more wit and appeal in any single sentence than your entire string of mangled posts so far.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #367 - January 14, 2011, 12:26 AM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on January 14, 2011, 12:21 AM
    Are you a Twelver?

    he's a muttazilite
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  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #368 - January 14, 2011, 12:26 AM
    Quote from: debunker on January 13, 2011, 02:07 AM
    I don’t believe Muhammed performed any miracles, simply because the Quran says that no miracles would be performed by him. I have discussed this before.

    Sure.  I was just pointing out to others that it's not the absurdity of the miracle claim that you had qualms about.

    Quote from: debunker on January 13, 2011, 02:07 AM
    But everyone rejects Occam’s razor when they find it helpful. Even in science, thinking outside the box (which necessarily involves throwing away Occam’s razor) can result in breakthroughs.

    Yeah, but that is in the hypothesis stage.  The scientist does not dogmatically believe with full yaqeen that the more complex theory is true.  They know they are merely speculating and the area requires further research.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #369 - January 14, 2011, 12:28 AM
    Quote from: AbaAbdillah on January 14, 2011, 12:19 AM
    You have serious mental problems, and from what I understand you have children too, I wonder what kind of father you'd make.
    Grow up dumbass! And I like to joke around but your jokes are just disturbing. It's like being hit on by a 50 year old grandad.

    Being the God-fearing man that I am darling, I will give you an oppurtunity to retract your vituperation . I've been uncharacteristically polite to you. This will not endure. Play nice or face a barrage of artillery fire.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #370 - January 14, 2011, 12:33 AM
    Quote
    You've got me firmly nailed like a skirt-clutching cheerleader being cheerfully deflowered. In a former life I was a hardcore Salafi outfitted in a flowing white robe and a turban bandaged on my head. The genuine article. I note with interest that you refer derisively to the duo of Bukhari and Muslim. By which one of them were you mounted like a bison? Only the Shia deride the hadith compilers. Are you a Twelver? The princiople of abrogation is universally accepted by the four Sunni madhabs incidentally. Not a heretical view in Sunni orthodoxy by far.


    Seriously? Have you ever been a Salafi?

    No. I was never a Shia. I'm originally a Sunni who decided that he recognizes the authority of absolutely no scholar. As for Bukhari and Muslim, I'm not upset at them as I am at Sunnis who venerate their work to the point of committing heresy (acting as though these two were inspired by God).

    And no, I'm not a Mutazilite per se, but I agree with their general idea (although I strongly disagree with most of their conclusions).
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #371 - January 14, 2011, 12:37 AM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on January 14, 2011, 12:21 AM
    The princiople of abrogation is universally accepted by the four Sunni madhabs incidentally. Not a heretical view in Sunni orthodoxy by far.

    Are you confusing abrogation of the Quran?  Because I have never come across anybody that says some hadith abrogate the quran.  Aooodobillah!
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  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #372 - January 14, 2011, 12:40 AM
    Quote from: debunker on January 13, 2011, 09:13 PM
    Answer: because it sounds even sillier than Christianity (which I was seriously contemplating embracing during my phase of Deism).

    Ah!  but "silliness is in the eye of the beholder".  I'm quoting you, by the way. grin12
    The Sikari tribe will laugh at your creation story with Adam, Iblis and the forbidden fruit etc.  And the whole heaven and hell concept; not to mention the implausible miracles of the prophets.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #373 - January 14, 2011, 12:40 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 14, 2011, 12:10 AM
    I realise its a difficult question to answer quantitatively, but out of interest what % do you believe Islam is true? As in not manmade?


    I believe 100% percent in the Quran, althought i don't understand certain things in it (and i think i never will). As for the rest: Hadith/Tafsir/Jurisprudence, I believe it's an utter mess, but that doesn't necessarily mean I reject them entirely.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #374 - January 14, 2011, 12:41 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 14, 2011, 12:37 AM
    Are you confusing abrogation of the Quran?  Because I have never come across anybody that says some hadith abrogate the hadith.  Aooodobillah!


    you're wrong! Salafis believe in this!
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #375 - January 14, 2011, 12:43 AM
    Quote from: ateapotist on January 14, 2011, 12:40 AM
    Ah!  but "silliness is in the eye of the beholder".  I'm quoting you, by the way. grin12
    The Sikari tribe will laugh at your creation story with Adam, Iblis and the forbidden fruit etc.  And the whole heaven and hell concept; not to mention the implausible miracles of the prophets.


    i'm sure that even you, if you took a holistic view at their religion, you would agree the Bible is 1e+1000 better.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #376 - January 14, 2011, 12:48 AM
    Quote from: debunker on January 13, 2011, 11:19 PM
    When hadith contradicts Quran, I discard it in a heart beat. I don't care if it were prophet Bukhari or prophet Muslim who narrated the Hadith. The quran clearly says that satan and his diminions see us from whence we cannot see them. End of story.

    Quote from: debunker on January 14, 2011, 12:40 AM
    I believe 100% percent in the Quran, althought i don't understand certain things in it (and i think i never will). As for the rest: Hadith/Tafsir/Jurisprudence, I believe it's an utter mess, but that doesn't necessarily mean I reject them entirely.

    How do you know the Quran is perfectly preserved?  (Sorry, I bet you've discussed this many times before in old threads.)
    Also, the fact that you are prepared to discard a Hadith in a heart beat if it contradicts the Quran surely means that you should not really pay any attention to Hadith at all.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #377 - January 14, 2011, 12:52 AM
    Quote from: debunker on January 14, 2011, 12:40 AM
    I believe 100% percent in the Quran, althought i don't understand certain things in it (and i think i never will). As for the rest: Hadith/Tafsir/Jurisprudence, I believe it's an utter mess, but that doesn't necessarily mean I reject them entirely.

    Really -  Not even 99%?
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  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #378 - January 14, 2011, 12:56 AM
    .
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #379 - January 14, 2011, 12:57 AM
    I don't understand how you can believe 100% in a collection of writings full of contradictions and glaring untruths.

    I guess it's something that will always remain a mystery to me.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #380 - January 14, 2011, 12:58 AM
    Quote from: ateapotist on January 14, 2011, 12:48 AM
    How do you know the Quran is perfectly preserved?  (Sorry, I bet you've discussed this many times before in old threads.)


    *Perfectly* preserved. I don't know that, i only choose to believe it based on the numerous many verses in it that make perfect sense to me. there are a few troubling verses which i don't understand, but it doesn't mean that should doubt the entire book becuase of them. I simply put them in a far away corner and forget about them.

    Quote
    Also, the fact that you are prepared to discard a Hadith in a heart beat if it contradicts the Quran surely means that you should not really pay any attention to Hadith at all.

    why? is there a rule that says so? anyway, you should know a bit about Hadith's collection method, rankings (Mutawatir/Mashhour/aziz/Ahad) to undersatnd what i mean.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #381 - January 14, 2011, 01:00 AM
    @Bison
    Quote
    I chuckle every time you raise the topic of heresy. Just what do you think your school of thought is if not the perfect distillation of the most abandoned heretics? I can smell the whiskey.

     

    LOL! I never drank in my life (except once: a beer.. it tasted so bad i couldn't complete it).

    EDIT: I'm no heretic just because i reject the *mainstream* heresy.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #382 - January 14, 2011, 01:02 AM
    Quote from: Ishina on January 14, 2011, 12:57 AM
    I don't understand how you can believe 100% in a collection of writings full of contradictions and glaring untruths.

    I guess it's something that will always remain a mystery to me.


    i would think you see contradictions and untruths otherwise you wouldn't disbelieve. but then again, you, billy, and kenan would still reject the quranic God even if He shown Himself to you.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #383 - January 14, 2011, 01:03 AM
    Quote from: debunker on January 14, 2011, 12:58 AM
    why? is there a rule that says so? anyway, you should know a bit about Hadith's collection method, rankings (Mutawatir/Mashhour/aziz/Ahad) to undersatnd what i mean.

    OK, "pay any attention" was a strong statement.  My point is that if you are prepared to discard a Hadith in a heartbeat, no matter how authentic, if it contradicts the Quran, then you are discrediting all Hadith.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #384 - January 14, 2011, 01:05 AM
    do you know what the word *authentic* means? How about *Mutawatir* vs. *Ahad*?
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #385 - January 14, 2011, 01:08 AM
    Quote from: debunker on January 14, 2011, 01:02 AM
    i would think you see contradictions and untruths otherwise you wouldn't disbelieve.


    You seem like a bright guy. Don't you see contradictions and untruths in the Qur'an too?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #386 - January 14, 2011, 01:09 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 14, 2011, 12:52 AM
    Really -  Not even 99%?


    yes, really... at least that's the last conclusion i got.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #387 - January 14, 2011, 01:10 AM
    Quote from: debunker on January 14, 2011, 01:05 AM
    do you know what the word *authentic* means? How about *Mutawatir* vs. *Ahad*?

    Well, you know what I mean.  Sahih Bukhari for example.  Anyway, it is clear you are discrediting all Hadith.  I take it you don't try to learn anything from them?  Perhaps to interpret the Quran?
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #388 - January 14, 2011, 01:13 AM
    Quote from: Ishina on January 14, 2011, 01:08 AM
    You seem like a bright guy. Don't you see contradictions and untruths in the Qur'an too?


    If I want to see contradictions and untruths (in any scripture) I sure can, but if I don't want to, then even if they were clear as the midday sun, i can still cover my eyes.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #389 - January 14, 2011, 01:14 AM
    " If the contradictions were to cover the sun, I would believe in the shade" - Debunker.   Tongue
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
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