Do your parents own you? No.
You answered a yes/no question by posing a different yes/no question and then answering that surrogate question instead. Anyway, the answer to your question is no. The process through which I was created is not my creator and thus my parents do not own me.
We wasn't created. If there is something to dislike here, it's baseless assertions, like 'you were created'.
Let’s take a step back. I wasn't discussing with donatelo whether the premise of my argument was true or not.
The premise, again, was: only the Creator and His creation exist.
The argument based on the above premise is: the creation is owned by its Creator and thus the Creator owes His creation ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
You simply refuse to discuss the argument and instead choose to reject the premise upon which the argument is based, which is fine, but that's not what I thought donatelo chose to do when he decided to discuss further with me, and that's why I continued the discussion with him.
Your comment here reminded me of what happened in the other thread when we were discussing the nature of God and then one of the people partaking in that discussion declared that the point I was trying to make regarding the nature of God was invalid since there’s no evidence God exists. That left me wondering as to what was the purpose of debating the argument, when the premise was rejected, in the first place.
Also, you present these two choices like they are the only two choices - cherish the creator, or take your own life. What the fuck? What are you thinking? What's going through your mind?
I didn’t say that. Let me translate what I said in points: the argument that since the creator did not take my opinion when He created me, then He has no right in punishing me, is invalid because:
1- Before I was created, I did not even exist for anyone to take my opinion about the prospect of being created.
2- Clearly, I am quite happy with the fact that I was created. Proof? I cherish my life and I’d do anything to stay alive. (this is what donatelo understood from what I said in my previous post, btw).
You cannot justify the heinous shit by simply asserting concepts such as justice don't apply to god and expect it to pass muster. You might not need a train of logic to take these things for granted, but other people do. Especially when this particular god expects us to enact its justice in this life and obey its commandments.
I’m not justifying anything. I have been maintaining, all along, that nothing (done by God) needs to be justified. I again refer to the argument whose premise (that God exists) you reject.
This desert wraith you are worshipping should be setting an example, should it not?
Of course not. None other than Him is the source of all existence, and thus thinking that I should emulate Him would only make me a monster.
So why does Allah care about our toilet habits and dress sense, or who we are friendly with/who we fall in love with? The grand architect of the universe, with the whole glorious cosmos for a playground, and he’s writing lists of prudish rules and dictating the toilet habits of some flash in the pan ape species on a tiny ball of rock in some backwater part of the galaxy. So caught up with human sexual areas and his own inadequacies that he has to set up some shabby and long-winded rat-maze ‘test’ just to keep his lonely, whiney, lazy, sorry arse busy. It's no wonder so many people have no respect for him. Who in their right mind could respect such an entity?
And of all the people to choose as his prophet, he has to choose some dirty, illiterate pervert who has only slightly less mood swings than himself. Pathetic. What a fucking idiot god.
Are you saying that you DO accept the notion that the infinite God should indeed care less if He sent all of His creation to an eternal inferno, yet there is a contradiction in Him being (seemingly) concerned with the minutest details of the lives of His creation?
What is the attraction of reducing yourself this way? Are you a masochist? It isn't an attractive quality. What need is there to prostrate yourself in this manner?
Like I explained, in a previous example, this has nothing to do with whether I *need* this or not. Again, if I believe I owe someone something, then I’ll return it to them whether I liked them or not, and regardless of whether they needed it or not.
Square your shoulders, hold your head up high. Be your own man. Make yourself. Stop worshipping this desert phantom. It’s holding you back. Stop obsessing over ambiguous lines of text in a shitty, inferior book of superstitionist absurdity and mediocre oral traditions, full of petty local squabbles and the mundane micro-management of an age and culture you never even knew.
Free your mind, man. You’re too bright to be Muslim. This Islam bollocks is indefensible and really quite silly.
Now, I’m really curious: What makes you think it’s holding me back? I believe God exists, I maintain the 5 pillars and avoid the 9 greatest sins. That’s it.. that’s all.
++++++++++++
Until next week (or whenever)
Topic: Hi from on the fence muslim