Is islam actually an ethnic religion?

12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
- Nikolina30
- Member
- offline
Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
OP - January 04, 2011, 03:36 PM

Ok guys, I am not trying to offend Arabs on the forum. After reading various muslim forums, I have an impression that ''non Arab'' muslims are actually kind of ''lesser muslim brothers''.

Every muslim will argue there is no nationality in islam, there is only one Umma. If a Kurd says, they want a state , muslim brothers will tell him that nationalism sucks.

North Caucasian muslims (namely Chechens) have left the idea of free Chechen state. Now they have Caucasus Emirate, and talk about khalifat.

When the word is about Palestinian state , of course, it's completely different matter.

Muslims pray in Arabic, turn to Mekkah, use arabic expressions in everyday speech...

How do non-Arabs feel about this issue?Are non-Arab muslims ''second fiddles'' to Arabs?
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #1 - January 04, 2011, 03:42 PM

You should read VS Naipaul's books Among the Believers and Beyond Belief. He writes about this very issue you raise.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #2 - January 04, 2011, 03:45 PM

re ''lesser muslim brothers'', no, I see faith as a matter between you & you God, and not an interacial matter.

Having said that Arab supremacy & racism does exist within the sciptures too

Tabari IX:69 - "Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in Allah's Cause. Killing him is a small matter to us."

My Book
My Blog
- Loki
- Dungeon Master
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #3 - January 04, 2011, 04:04 PM

Quote from: Nikolina30 on January 04, 2011, 03:36 PM
Muslims pray in Arabic, turn to Mekkah, use arabic expressions in everyday speech...

How do non-Arabs feel about this issue?Are non-Arab muslims ''second fiddles'' to Arabs?

Islam is a very Arab-centric religion true.

Just my experience but many of my old friends during my time as a Muslim shared a mutual dislike of Arabs for their arrogance and racism towards us. It was almost defensive.

It was and still is highly amusing to go Mosque and observe quietly the bashing of Arabs as fake and homosexuals and then the next second see them open up the Qu'ran and start reading in Arabic. Makes me want to facepalm IRL

Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence
- Mount A Bison
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #4 - January 04, 2011, 06:57 PM

To join Allah's gang is to shed one's heritage. The Muslim convert subordinates his identity to the Arab completely. Call it a reincarnation. He adopts an Arab name, an Arab dress, an Arab custom, an Arabic language and exalts Mecca and Medina over the city in which he was born and has his being. In sharp contrast, A Filipino Christian retains his heritage because the liturgy is conducted in his native tongue. No command of Latin is necessary, and with it no special advantage accrues to such who possess it.

Think of Islam as a multinational corporation with a franchise in every state and its headquarters in Saudi Arabia. The Prophet Mo had sense enough to switch the focal point of worship (the Qibla) from Jerusalem to Mecca. Why let the Jews get all the tourist traffic? Alive today, the man would have proved a marketing genius without peer.

The curious thing is that converts never quite cotton on to the fact that there is no such thing as a Muslim name for Muhammad was always known as Muhammad before his prophetic career and the early Muslims likewise. If Ibn Towelhead was always thus known when he was a wine-guzzlin', pork-munchin', idol-worshippin' pagan how can it be a sacred name? Answer: Arab cultural imperialism.
- hypocrucifier
- Ending the tyranny of nonsense
- Pub Regular
- The emancipation of TRUTH from perceptions
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #5 - January 04, 2011, 07:14 PM

Quote from: Mount A Bison on January 04, 2011, 06:57 PM
To join Allah's gang is to shed one's heritage. The Muslim convert subordinates his identity to the Arab completely. Call it a reincarnation. He adopts an Arab name, an Arab dress, an Arab custom, an Arabic language and exalts Mecca and Medina over the city in which he was born and has his being. In sharp contrast, A Filipino Christian retains his heritage because the liturgy is conducted in his native tongue. No command of Latin is necessary, and with it no special advantage accrues to such who possess it.

Think of Islam as a multinational corporation with a franchise in every state and its headquarters in Saudi Arabia. The Prophet Mo had sense enough to switch the focal point of worship (the Qibla) from Jerusalem to Mecca. Why let the Jews get all the tourist traffic? Alive today, the man would have proved a marketing genius without peer.

The curious thing is that converts never quite cotton on to the fact that there is no such thing as a Muslim name for Muhammad was always known as Muhammad before his prophetic career and the early Muslims likewise. If Ibn Towelhead was always thus known when he was a wine-guzzlin', pork-munchin', idol-worshippin' pagan how can it be a sacred name? Answer: Arab cultural imperialism.

Very well put sir!

So you get to hear ridiculous statements like '' You put on a burkha to show your love for Allah!"

Oh! please! Ladies spare us your nonsense for fuck's sake!

The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
Thomas Paine

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #6 - January 04, 2011, 07:17 PM

Quote
Is islam actually an ethnic religion?

Ethnicity and origin of Islam is clear but That is no religion. It is fucking cult of Arabian Bedouin baboons with silly book copy/pasted by some fools of 7th century for the sake of loot and booty. I have strong doubt that there was a guy in the name of "Muhammad" in the history of Islam. Complete bogus bull shit story.

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #7 - January 04, 2011, 07:24 PM

"A racial hierarchy has always existed amongst Muslims with Arabs at the top, despite the fact they make up only about 12% of Muslims world-wide. The main reason they are looked up to is that they hold the key to understanding the words of God: the Arabic Language. Muslims believe that the Qur’an is the literal speech of God and cannot be translated. Once it is translated, it is no longer the speech of God, but merely one person’s interpretation of the meaning. A non-Arabic speaker will always be at a disadvantage in any dispute over the meaning of the Qur’an, with an Arabic speaker. When all else fails, the Arabic speaker can simply claim that the other cannot understand the true meaning of God’s word. Another reason for this hierarchy is that the Prophet himself was an Arab. This has a religious implication, since imitating the Prophet Muhammad is an important aspect of Islam. Muhammad reflected the Arab culture in which he lived, and as a result, Arab customs, clothes, and dietary habits heavily influenced Islamic customs, clothes and dietary habits. Many traditional schools of Islamic thought also stipulate that the Khalifah (leader of the Muslims) must be an Arab from the tribe of Quraysh, the Prophet’s tribe."

http://abooali.wordpress.com/86/
- Zebedee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #8 - January 04, 2011, 07:26 PM

Quote from: IsLame on January 04, 2011, 03:45 PM
Tabari IX:69 - "Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in Allah's Cause. Killing him is a small matter to us."

Was it Tabari himself that said that or is it a quote? It'd be kinda weird if it were considering that he was Persian.

Anyhoo, here's a couple of ahadith I found in Tafsir Qurtubi:

Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Messenger of Allah, my Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Love the Arabs for three reasons: because I am an Arab, the Qur'an is in Arabic and the language of the Garden will be Arabic." Abu Hamza said, "Al-Hasan was asked about people studying Arabic, and he said, 'They do well. They learn the language of their Prophet.'" Al-Hasan was told, "We have an imam who uses ungrammatical Arabic." He said, "Dismiss him." -- p. 25
- Mount A Bison
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #9 - January 04, 2011, 07:27 PM

Quote from: hypocrucifier on January 04, 2011, 07:14 PM

Very well put sir!

So you get to hear ridiculous statements like '' You put on a burkha to show your love for Allah!"

Oh! please! Ladies spare us your nonsense for fuck's sake!

By which hairy Fatima were you spurned my kindred? You sound bitter. Fact is, the mobile tents go in for the virile type. Show them a little chest hair, grow a forest on your chin, put on your loincloth and do the hula-hula dance.
- Bardhi_i_zi
- Ex-Muslim
- funkyzeit
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #10 - January 04, 2011, 07:30 PM

The Arab-ness of Islam is one of the main reasons why almost all my friends are atheists, deists or "Muslim Light"(muslim by name only, not deeds). Many of us, having a quite strong National awareness feel pissed off in our youth, why Arabic is the only way of communicating with god(God is not referred as Allah in our language), hence this pushes many to leave Islam or cling only to it's name...

Quote from: FreeSoul007 on January 14, 2011, 05:00 AM
Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!
- Ram
- Member
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #11 - January 04, 2011, 08:45 PM

Quote from: billy on January 04, 2011, 03:42 PM
You should read VS Naipaul's books Among the Believers and Beyond Belief. He writes about this very issue you raise.

Two great books to read. V.S.Naipaul is a Noble Prize winner for literature.

वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
Entire World is One Family
سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #12 - January 04, 2011, 08:50 PM

Islam: The Arab Imperialism ― What Is A Prophet? by Anwar Sheikh

You can read that book freely at http://www.islam-watch.org/AnwarSheikh/Islam-Arab-Imperialism1.htm

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- Nikolina30
- Member
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #13 - January 04, 2011, 09:03 PM

Yeezeeve thanks for the link.

My proffesor of Arabic (who is a non-Arab muslim) lived in Saudi Arabia. Recently we had a discussion about political situation in Middle East , he said ''Kurds are terrorists''.

Of course, there is only place for holly Arabs.
- ChinaDoll
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #14 - January 04, 2011, 09:49 PM

I experienced that too , I never really felt welcomed in arab mosques (or edgeware road....) not that all Arabs are racist but I when I gave arabs salaams they were usually ignored unfortunately :( . But the Muslims are divided got similar treatment in the asian community sometimes .

Once at college somebody in class I thought I was from "Muslim"...........

"its fashionable to be an ex Muslim these days"
- Juan Karl
- Member
- faithless former Christian
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #15 - January 04, 2011, 09:55 PM

What is striking me as giving the Islamic religion a very "Arab" feel are the Jinns.

As far as I can tell, Jinns are a uniquely Arab feature to the religion. There is nothing like in Judaism, Christianity, nor any non-Arab rooted tradition I am aware of. The importance of Jinns seems to give away the Arab nature if Islam.

If I am wrong about Jinns, correct me.

El bien mas preciado / es la libertad
hay que defenderla / con fe y valor.
- hypocrucifier
- Ending the tyranny of nonsense
- Pub Regular
- The emancipation of TRUTH from perceptions
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #16 - January 04, 2011, 10:21 PM

Quote
Islam has become the conqueror of hearts and minds of the depressed, the distracted and the decimated. It is really spectacular how, through a process of brainwashing, it acts as the tranquilliser for those, who have been ravaged by hunger, ignorance and injustice. It provides tranquility through the hoax of paradise, which is a place of bliss, blessedness and beatitude, where there is no pain, toil or death. Instead, every man shall be endowed with an everlasting age of 30 irrespective of how old he was when he died; his virility shall be increased a hundredfold, and the Munificent Allah shall bestow upon him no fewer than seventy-two most beautiful virgins, eager to gratify his lust. There is only one condition for the fulfilment of this promise: people must believe in Muhammad and the spiritual supremacy of Arabia, his motherland; they must adore all the Arab heroes, and crave for the introduction of the Koranic Law in their countries to demonstrate allegiance to the superiority of the Arab cultural values.

The net result of this faith is that every non-Arab Muslim has been turned into a moth, restless to cremate itself on the flame of Arab Imperialism. Therefore, it is not surprising that, whereas other dominant nations require guns, tanks and atom bombs to subdue foreign countries, the Arabs need nothing of the sort. Islam does it all for them through a dazzling process of brainwashing.

The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
Thomas Paine

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #17 - January 04, 2011, 10:30 PM

Even after death good Muslims undergo prejudice, but this time by Alah , who only offers them Arab food & fruit over there such as dates & figs

Quote from: Zebedee on January 04, 2011, 07:26 PM
Was it Tabari himself that said that or is it a quote? It'd be kinda weird if it were considering that he was Persian.

Not sure actually.

My Book
My Blog
- Mixu Paatelainen
- Ex-Muslim
- Rudeboy
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #18 - January 04, 2011, 10:49 PM

Quote from: IsLame on January 04, 2011, 03:45 PM
re ''lesser muslim brothers'', no, I see faith as a matter between you & you God, and not an interacial matter.

Having said that Arab supremacy & racism does exist within the sciptures too

Tabari IX:69 - "Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in Allah's Cause. Killing him is a small matter to us."

Of course the Arabs were the first to respond to the call of the prophet, because he was an Arab living in Arabia! If a Native American was the first to respond to his call, now that would be a true miracle!

Quote from: Juan Karl on January 04, 2011, 09:55 PM
What is striking me as giving the Islamic religion a very "Arab" feel are the Jinns.

As far as I can tell, Jinns are a uniquely Arab feature to the religion. There is nothing like in Judaism, Christianity, nor any non-Arab rooted tradition I am aware of. The importance of Jinns seems to give away the Arab nature if Islam.

If I am wrong about Jinns, correct me.

Another strikingly Arab feature is the Kaaba and the Hajj. There is no real evidence that the Kaaba was anything other than an Arab pagan shrine and no real evidence that the Hajj was anything other than an Arab pagan ritual before Muhammad. All that stuff about Ibrahim is bullshit!

Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
- hupla
- Member
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #19 - January 04, 2011, 11:03 PM

Quote from: Juan Karl on January 04, 2011, 09:55 PM
If I am wrong about Jinns, correct me.

Not wrong.
And as Mixu points out there are the Kaaba and Hajj things. Also the Muslim way of praying is borrowed from pre-Islamic Arab pagan religion. The Romans who were only vaguely aware of the Arabs did refer to them (somewhere) as "rock-worshippers". The pagan Arabs worshipped in fact the stars, sun and moon and worshipped meteorites as objects sent by the gods -hence the Kaaba (which is a meteorite).
There is also a theory that the "3 times fast, 4 times slow" run around the Kaaba is based on the movements of the planets known at the time (the outer and inner planets).
- olweasel
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #20 - January 04, 2011, 11:22 PM

Quote from: IsLame on January 04, 2011, 10:30 PM
Even after death good Muslims undergo prejudice, but this time by Alah , who only offers them Arab food & fruit over there such as dates & figs

Don't fret, Allah will have prepared stacks of chapati in Jannah.

And we're going to have a 40-year dawat.

Quote
They will eat foods and fruits continuously up to 40 years. Every bowl will have a new taste. They will take eructation which will digest the food and there will be perfumed sweating for the digestion of water. There will be no urine and stool.

Ameen 2 that yaar.

"Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
- Robert Louis Stevenson
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #21 - January 04, 2011, 11:42 PM

Quote from: olweasel on January 04, 2011, 11:22 PM
Don't fret, Allah will have prepared stacks of chapati in Jannah.

Why didnt you tell me before I apostated

So Allah is like an indian restuarant waiter Does he provide lamb curry with the chapattis too? I'll need ghee & achar in a bit of daal too

**snaps fingers** Oh & hurry up Allah, I'm starving

My Book
My Blog
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #22 - January 04, 2011, 11:48 PM

Quote
So Allah is like an indian restuarant waiter Does he provide lamb curry with the chapattis too? I'll need ghee & achar in a bit of daal too

The waiter in the Indian restaurant in jannat is a Hindu God, the one with an elephant head or the monkey god

Its all a scam dude might as well spice it up a little

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- olweasel
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #23 - January 05, 2011, 12:19 AM

Quote from: billy on January 04, 2011, 11:48 PM
The waiter in the Indian restaurant in jannat is a Hindu God, the one with an elephant head or the monkey god

"Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
- Robert Louis Stevenson
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #24 - January 05, 2011, 12:21 AM

as long as he's not the cow god on duty, otherwise I better change my beef biryani order

My Book
My Blog
- olweasel
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #25 - January 05, 2011, 12:23 AM

Quote from: IsLame on January 05, 2011, 12:21 AM
as long as he's not the cow god on duty, otherwise I better change my beef biryani order

Hey, while we're at it, we could have a double date with Allah's daughters.

"Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
- Robert Louis Stevenson
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #26 - January 05, 2011, 12:26 AM

Quote from: olweasel on January 05, 2011, 12:23 AM
Hey, while we're at it, we could have a double date with Allah's daughters.

ummm, she wears some really sexy lingerie

My Book
My Blog
- Elifaz
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #27 - January 05, 2011, 12:26 AM

^^

Islam is distinctively Arab in many ways. You have to emulate Mo who was after all, an Arab, to start with.
- Jinn and Tonic
- My Place is the Placeless, the Trace of the Traceless
- Ex-Muslim
- aka عزرایل
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #28 - January 05, 2011, 01:33 AM

lets not forget the difference between the holy quran and noble quran, or is it
the other way around? LOL YOU HAVE TO know arabic diction, inuendos,
etc, in other words the entire culture, as well as geographical knowledge to
be a real muslim. (ummm... like spotting the crescent moon on the start
of ramadan?) I knew a muslim in alaska, and salat sucked royal for him!

When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
Helen Keller
- Iraqi Atheist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Reply #29 - January 05, 2011, 01:48 AM

Is islam actually an ethnic religion?
Yes, to a great degree.
12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »