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Theme Changer

 Topic: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'

 (Read 137946 times)
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  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #330 - February 01, 2011, 12:25 AM

    You are in the payroll of the International Front For the Revival of the Caliphate. I will expose you.


    Please don't - I have children to feed.
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #331 - February 01, 2011, 12:26 AM

    LOL

    What a come back. Okay, a truce for now.
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #332 - February 01, 2011, 12:33 AM



    In the comments of this pic, an Arabic speaker translated the sign as, "Just leave man, my arm hurts." Smiley

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #333 - February 01, 2011, 01:21 AM

    Again, quite true, IA - but I have faith in the Egyptian people. There are too many well educated and intelligent people there to allow the Islamists to take power - they know the dangers as well as you and I - give them credit. Things have shifted and moved on. The people are not as gullible as before and want real change - not the same old crap - whether from the old Arab elite or the Islamists.

    I used to say that about the Iraqi people but not anymore.

    I lived in Egypt for more than a year in 2007 and 2009 and studied there in a private (fee-paying) uni and got acquainted with quite a few middle-class students. I was absolutely amazed by the level of religiosity. Before that I had always thought Egypt was more liberal than Iraq. I mean even students there would come up to me and say 'All Iraqis I know drink WTF?!!' and things like that. Many had Azaan or Quran as their ringtone. It is very common to get into a minibus in Egypt and get a lecture from some beardo on why you should not listen to music on your iPod....etc etc.
    The only people in Egypt who are truly liberal and secular are the urban upper-class who don't constitute more than 5% at most. All other classes including the middle class are very religious. Whereas in Iraq the urban middle class is largely moderates and secular.

    Still, Iraq is now governed by a coalition or a moderate religious party and an extremist theocratic party. Many of the local councils in the South are controlled by theocratic parties. Alcohol has been banned in two provinces. Theatre and music schools were very close to getting shut down in one province if it wasn't for ventral government intervention.

    Not to mention that the fact that Iraq is not a homogeneous country religiously or ethnically. If Iraq was 90% Shiite for example (like Egypt is 90%) I would reckon it'd be a full-fledged theocracy by now.

    What happened to our educated middle class? they all left. No one fought. They were severely outnumbered and disorganized.
    And believe me we also have our fare share of political activists. Just ask any Arab communist and they will tell you the Iraqi communist party was the largest in the Arab world and the one who lost more victims.

    The problem is that if fair elections is held in Egypt right now the Muslim Brotherhood would win with a clear majority. Even if the middle class didn't vote for them, they'd still win. You know why? because they have the vote of the people who live here -->

  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #334 - February 01, 2011, 01:24 AM

    BTW this is NOT in any way, shape, or form a opposition to the protests. I really do hope Mubarak is toppled and a free election is held. I'm just saying that we can't rule out a theocracy.
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #335 - February 01, 2011, 03:42 AM

    I agree Iraqi. I believe that Iranian scenario will play out in Egypt. I will be grateful if I am wrong. In Iran, the revolution was organized by secular intellectuals and activists with the co-operation of the clerics. Eventually the secular politicians were sidelined by the religious parties. The secular politicians were either executed or driven out of the country.

    The Muslim Brotherhood will do exactly what the Ayatollahs did in Iran.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #336 - February 01, 2011, 04:38 AM

    I think we have to let it play out though, unfortunately.  Rightfully the people of Iran don't blame the West for their misfortunes they blame the Islamic "republic" and if there is to be a true awakening of liberal principles it has to come at the behest of the people and not by an autocratic dictator. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #337 - February 01, 2011, 04:54 AM

    The problem with what you guys are saying is you are just assuming based on no experience with Egyptians
    For IA people whom live in poverty areas are usually the most people to get drunk and stoned and to just give you an example look at the movies.
    For RAM , people in Egypt or a lot of the people in Egypt at least 60% don't trust Muslim brother hood and the rest a lot of them like their motivation but wouldn't trust them with office.
    Egypt is probably one of the secularist middle east countries, come on if it was like what you guys are saying , there wouldn't be night clubs and beer brewed in Egypt and other kind of Wine.

    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #338 - February 01, 2011, 04:57 AM


    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #339 - February 01, 2011, 05:04 AM

    this is for all you thinking egypt will be in hands of brother hood

    http://www.youtube.com/citizentube?feature=ticker#p/c/7372E865986E4330/4/9u1w_ZcL87o

    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #340 - February 01, 2011, 08:32 AM

    IA, yes, I have said many times in this thread and elsewhere that although many Egyptians look on the surface to be very western, they are also very religious. But don't mistake that for support for Muslim Brotherhood or support for a theocracy.

    But I agree, it is a worry that the MB could get the 'apathetic' support of many. I just hope - and still have faith - that there are too many who will not allow the MB to take over. They have the example of what's been going on around them and they are not stupid. The secularists who started this won't allow their revolution to be hijacked.
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #341 - February 01, 2011, 09:16 AM

    btw Paloma - Of course we all know many Arabs and Muslims often blame the "Jews" for everything, but in the video you posted they said 'Israel is the enemy' (which is again not news, but a common and predictable opinion amongst many Arabs) - so why did you say Jews?


    Well, the majority of people living in Israel are Jews so Israelis/Jews = same thing. I didn´t have any nefarious ulterior motive for writing Jews. Anyway what could that motive have been ?  Huh?

    Quote
    Looks like the Australian wing of Anjem Choudhury's lot.

    What point are you trying to make, Paloma?


    No particular point, the video touched on the topic of the thread is all. Yes they look like the Australian wing of Anjem Choudhury´s lot. His rants have been posted (and ridiculed) often enough on this forum. What´s wrong with posting the rant of this group and lamenting the fact, that despite living in an open and free society they hold the views that they do ?

    As for the Egyptian people, I wish them the best and hope they get the society they want.


    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #342 - February 01, 2011, 09:37 AM

    guys, hating Israel equates hating it's people that sustain it... You don't have to hate Jews because of theological disputes... You can hate them because of their "race" (nazis) or because of Israel... But please do not tell me that Israel-haters have really the intellectual capacity and honesty to differentiate between Israel and the Israelis... A few years back, during my teenage years, when i was bubbling from testosterone and haunted by bad war memories, I hated Serbia and I would argue with Serbs, that I hate the Serb State and it's Apparatus and not them as people, but that was quite a lie coz i hated both of them, since there is no real difference between the Tribe Name and Tribesmen... when you start hating one of those concepts you have to hate the other....

    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #343 - February 01, 2011, 10:17 AM

    Israelis/Jews = same thing


    No, Paloma.  Israel is not the same thing as "Jews".

    One can be highly critical of the govt of Israel without it meaning one hates "Jews".

    It is disappointing enough when Muslims conflate these things - I would have hoped you would know better.
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #344 - February 01, 2011, 10:19 AM

    guys, hating Israel equates hating it's people that sustain it... You don't have to hate Jews because of theological disputes... You can hate them because of their "race" (nazis) or because of Israel... But please do not tell me that Israel-haters have really the intellectual capacity and honesty to differentiate between Israel and the Israelis... A few years back, during my teenage years, when i was bubbling from testosterone and haunted by bad war memories, I hated Serbia and I would argue with Serbs, that I hate the Serb State and it's Apparatus and not them as people, but that was quite a lie coz i hated both of them, since there is no real difference between the Tribe Name and Tribesmen... when you start hating one of those concepts you have to hate the other....


    I have never been a supporter of the State of Israel and am highly critical of it's government - but I have never hated Jews.

    As I have said in the past - why the fuck is support for the State of Israel held up by some as some sort of litmus test of being a civilised human being.
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #345 - February 01, 2011, 10:34 AM

    Hassan do you think that Israel should stop existing as a entity?

    Not supporting Israel policies towards occupied lands is very valid, and whoever has an ounce of humanity in himself disagrees and does not support their policies... But what most people think of when they state that they hate Israel/Zionists means that they actually believe that Israel should not exist.

    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #346 - February 01, 2011, 10:48 AM

    Hassan do you think that Israel should stop existing as a entity?

    Not supporting Israel policies towards occupied lands is very valid, and whoever has an ounce of humanity in himself disagrees and does not support their policies... But what most people think of when they state that they hate Israel/Zionists means that they actually believe that Israel should not exist.


    No, of course not. I'm against the way it came about - but the past is the past.

    My only problem now is exactly what you said above - their policy and treatment of the Palestinians, the continuing settlements, taking land property etc...

    But what most people think of when they state that they hate Israel/Zionists means that they actually believe that Israel should not exist.


    You see, here is the problem. Never once have I said I "hate" Israel and never once have I mentioned the word "Zionist".

    Too many people immediately take criticism of Israel as meaning you hate Israel and you hate Jews and you want to see Israel destroyed.

    Well if people want to jump to such conclusions - that's their problem. I don't have to prove anything to anyone.
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #347 - February 01, 2011, 10:53 AM

    Quote
    But what most people think of when they state that they hate Israel/Zionists means that they actually believe that Israel should not exist.


    Totally agree  Smiley

    Back to the topic:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/interactive/2011/jan/27/egypt-protest-interactive
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #348 - February 01, 2011, 11:29 AM

    Totally agree  Smiley

    Totally agree on what?

    Considering that you wrote this:
    Just put the pricks under a siege for a few years and bob's your uncle  parrot

    I suppose that by 'pricks' you mean Israelis?
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #349 - February 01, 2011, 11:42 AM

    Hassan is right: disliking Israeli government policy towards Palestinians does not mean we hate Jews. Too further clarify I dislike some of the policies of the UK government but that does not mean I hate British people.

    Through Logic, truth can be ascertained.
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #350 - February 01, 2011, 11:51 AM

    Absolutely. That is my position too. Criticising the policies of Israeli government is not anti-Semitism.
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #351 - February 01, 2011, 12:27 PM

    Funny how some of those who seem to equate crticism of Israel as hatred towards Jews will then - quite rightly - say that criticism of Islam/Muslim nation does not mean they hate Muslims.
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #352 - February 01, 2011, 12:30 PM

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    "Just leave man, my arm hurts."


    I've always loved the Egyptian sense of humour!  Afro  Cheesy
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #353 - February 01, 2011, 12:51 PM

    IA, yes, I have said many times in this thread and elsewhere that although many Egyptians look on the surface to be very western, they are also very religious.

    Was it always like that?

    This is the same school in '50, '70, 1995 and 2004 (from top to bottom). There are a whole lot more women in the last pic than the first one but also a lot more headscarves.
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #354 - February 01, 2011, 01:01 PM

    this is for all you thinking egypt will be in hands of brother hood

    http://www.youtube.com/citizentube?feature=ticker#p/c/7372E865986E4330/4/9u1w_ZcL87o


    Can you explain what's going on in the video for those of us that don't speak Arabic  Smiley
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #355 - February 01, 2011, 01:03 PM

    OMG! in 2004 almost all female university graduates had one - imagine the shit the girl on the left got for not wearing one  Cry

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #356 - February 01, 2011, 01:07 PM

    Was it always like that?


    I remember visiting Egypt in the 70s before Islamic Jihad, Takfeer wal-Higra and all the other Jihadist hard-line groups and before Egyptian society became more overtly religious with lots of niqabs and big beards (not usually worn at the same time Wink ) but I still found the people to be quite religious - at least from my perspective as a young teenager who had grown up in the UK.

    My relatives more mini-skirts, my cousin wore the latest fashions and loads of make-up, my aunty smoked cigarettes - none wore hijab - my uncle gratefully accepted the large bottles of duty-free whiskey that my dad brought him - we went to smoke Hashish (which we shared with a police officer friend in his home) - we went to belly dance clubs and... ahem... met girls.

    Yet what made it all so surreal is at the same time they prayed and quoted qur'an as we would quote ordinary saying. Another uncle who was totally un-Islamic would suddenly come out with some pious statement - or another relative (again totally westernised) came in one day sweat dripping and started to pray in the corner - it wasn't even prayer time - he told me it was so hot outside that it reminded him of the fires of hell so he came to pray.

    This is all the 70s!

    Here's what I wrote on my blog about my experiences in 1979:

    http://abooali.wordpress.com/chapter-1/

    The moment I stepped off the plane and into the hot, moist atmosphere of Cairo airport, I realized I was in another universe. The scent of incense drifted through an intricate lattice window. Donkeys laden with vegetables weaved their way through an orchestra of blaring car horns; street merchants announced their wares with a siren cry that made me jump; men prayed on the pavement, wearing pyjamas; and women threw buckets of peelings from balconies above. It was a mad, chaotic patchwork quilt of smells, noise and colour and came as quite a culture shock to me. But despite its strangeness I soon felt at home. For the first time I didn’t have to hide or be embarrassed about my origins. Moreover, everyone admired and respected both halves of my cultural background.

    We stayed at my uncle’s house in Cairo. The Egyptians wore western clothes, watched dubbed Hollywood movies and had many of the modern conveniences found in England. But as I sat on the replica 18th Century French furniture, a loudspeaker in the street outside began bellowing the call to prayer. This triggered a wave of prayer calls that slowly unfurled across the Cairo rooftops and into the distance. Even on television, Clark Gable was cut off in mid flow, as a sign came up in Arabic, announcing the evening prayer. When everyone got up to pray, I was left sitting alone at the table, I felt a little uncomfortable.

    After prayer my cousin Nihal, who had been helping my aunty fry some food in the kitchen, came in carrying a steaming dish.
    “You like beetles?”
    “Er… I’ve never had them!” I said, feeling a little queasy.
    “I like them too much!” She put the plate on the table. “Especially I like Paul; he’s too cute!”
    “Oh… .”  I said with a sigh of relief, “Yeah I like them, but they split up a few years ago, you know!” Egyptians loved everything British and knew a great deal about the UK, though their information seemed to be about a decade old.
    “Split up?”
    “They don’t play together anymore.”
    “Oh? Why?”
    “Well bands do that after a while… .”
    “Georgie Best!” interrupted Hamdy, giving me the thumbs up. “Manchester United! Good.”
    “Well I support Spurs actually”
    “Sopurs? What is Sopurs?”
    “Tottenham Hotspur – they’re a football team.”
    Nihal showed me a picture in an Egyptian newspaper of Ayatollah Khomeini hugging a little girl. “Awww, he is such a good man!”
    “The people seem to love him.”
    “He says there is no difference between Sunni and Shi’ah. He says we are all Muslims and should be united.”
    Nihal was a very strong minded, independent woman who took her freedom to do as she wanted for granted. She didn’t wear a headscarf and had very western habits and tastes. Yet she seemed completely comfortable about identifying with traditional, orthodox views – something most Egyptians I met seemed totally at ease with despite being relatively westernised.
    “Eat, Hassan!” said Aunty Ola as she sat next to me. “We made you English food: Fish and Chips!”
    “Do you say your prayers, Hassan?” said my uncle.
    “To be honest, no, I don’t.”
    “Oh you must pray! Prophet Muhammad said that ‘Prayer is the key to Paradise.”
    “I’m not sure I really believe in all that. I mean why does God need us to pray?”
    “God doesn’t need us to pray. But we need to pray. To give thanks and seek His help.”
    “I still don’t see why we have to give thanks or ask for help through prayer.”
    “Have you read the Qur’an, Hassan?”
    “A bit.”
    Uncle Fouad took a book from the shelf.
    “Here’s an English translation for you. I want you to promise me you will read it.”
    I was reluctant to promise something I didn’t want to do, but as I was a guest in his house I could hardly refuse. I thought I could read a few pages then politely put it to one side.
    “Thanks. OK, I will.”
    “Insha-Allah,” prompted Uncle Fouad.
    “Insha-Allah,” I replied.

    The next day my father and uncle had gone out, leaving me at home with Aunty Ola. So I picked up the Qur’an, as promised, and began to read. To my surprise I found I couldn’t put it down. The Qur’an is not like any ordinary book. It doesn’t follow any of the conventions of standard prose. It has no definite beginning or end. There is no plot to follow and no neat resolution. It seems to jump rather abruptly from one account to another. Even its style changes with little warning, from a steady narrative to fast paced rhyming prose. Yet I found it strangely irresistible.

    “Alif Lam Mim.”
    I looked up at Aunty Ola who was quietly sitting smoking a cigarette as she read a magazine full of beautiful women strutting down a cat walk.
    “What does Alif Lam Mim mean?”
    “Nobody knows.” She smiled. “Some chapters of the Qur’an begin with letters of the alphabet. Scholars have tried to explain them. But nobody knows for sure.”
    “You mean it’s a mystery?”
    “Yes.”
    I liked mysteries.

    <snip>

    I spent most of my two weeks in Egypt just reading the Qur’an, with the occasional trip to meet other members of my newly discovered extended family. There, also, the conversations invariably turned to religion.
    “A friend of mine says that only by believing in Jesus can I be saved, because he died for our sins.”
    “Islam says the opposite,” said Magdi. “The Qur’an says:

    “Whosoever follows the right path, benefits his own soul and whosoever goes astray harms himself. No soul shall bear the burden of another.”(17:15)

    “Islam is the religion of our ‘Fitrah’ (inborn disposition); it is in complete harmony with our natural instinct.”
    “Then why can’t everyone see it?”
    “The prophet said; “Men are asleep and only when they die they awake.” That’s the nature of this world, Hassan. If everything was clear and easy, then there would be no test.”
    Magdi gave me a book of Hadith (sayings of Prophet Muhammad) which I read from cover to cover. One hadith in particular touched me deeply:
    “(God says) I am as my servant thinks of me. I am with him when he remembers me. If he comes to me a hand’s span; I come to him an arm’s length. If he comes to me one arm’s length, I draw near to him by two outstretched arms. If he comes to me walking, I come to him running.” (Bukhari)
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #357 - February 01, 2011, 01:09 PM

    Now the point is that Egyptians seem to be able to mix being religious and a pretty liberal lifestyle - and believe me there are many, many Egyptians who have this sort of odd sort of religiosity but DO NOT want the Muslim Brother hood.
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #358 - February 01, 2011, 01:12 PM

    Was it always like that?

    This is the same school in '50, '70, 1995 and 2004 (from top to bottom). There are a whole lot more women in the last pic than the first one but also a lot more headscarves.

    Indeed "A picture is worth a thousand words"  that is good picture ., let me compliment that how Persia changed with time  


    Pre-Islamic Persia



    post Islamic Sufi Islamic times



    Iran before Mullahs in 19th and 20th century


    Iran after Mullahs


    Iran under the power baboons in 21 st century..

    read it all at
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=45425#45425
    http://iranpoliticsclub.net/islam/women-before-after/index.htm

    so what is happening here? why these educated/semi educated  people come out of islamic clothing in 21st century??  Are some one enforcing the dress code?  Yes in some eastern Muslim countries/cultures it is enforced behavior.  But in west what so-called Muslims   doing is asserting   Islam without understanding Islam.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Egypt protests: Three reported dead in 'day of revolt'
     Reply #359 - February 01, 2011, 01:21 PM

     But in west what so-called Muslims   doing is asserting   Islam without understanding Islam.


     yes Afro



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
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