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 Topic: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!

 (Read 23239 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 34 5 6 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #60 - January 31, 2011, 11:43 AM

    Obama is more of a snake than bush (at least u know what you get with him coz he was frank about it) under Obama the US has increased its direct military involvement in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia.

    LOL errrm take him to the hair cut shop?  Tongue OR send him to me, I'll make him look like a young model  parrot

    And that's exactly what's needed to be done to stop al qaida and islamic terrorists. These places need more involvement whereas places like Iraq should've been left alone.
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #61 - January 31, 2011, 11:47 AM

    Have you ever wondered what is the source of Taliban appeal to the poor landless farmers? You do realize that the militants are offering more than just proscriptions on alcohol, music etc.
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #62 - January 31, 2011, 11:50 AM

    I don't have to wonder, I know from experience what the appeals are, having attended many friday mosque sermons in Pakistan.
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #63 - January 31, 2011, 12:26 PM

    I don't have to wonder, I know from experience what the appeals are, having attended many friday mosque sermons in Pakistan.


     yes Yep! nothing to beat it. Videos of the sermons would have been helpful to prove your point.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #64 - January 31, 2011, 12:50 PM

    Have you ever wondered what is the source of Taliban appeal to the poor landless farmers? You do realize that the militants are offering more than just proscriptions on alcohol, music etc.

    what else they are offering Kenan ??  hash-hash laced drinks??   A straight path to Allah heaven where houries waiting in honey rivers??

    or are they going to offer college education ..jobs..cars..  educated women as their wives..happy families??  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #65 - January 31, 2011, 12:55 PM

    Is it fair to say that Pakistan is in certain aspects a feudal society with deep class divisions between a few politically well connected landlords and lots of poor landless farmers?
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #66 - January 31, 2011, 12:58 PM

    what else they are offering Kenan ??  hash-hash laced drinks??   A straight path to Allah heaven where houries waiting in honey rivers??

    or are they going to offer college education ..jobs..cars..  educated women as their wives..happy families??  


    An elegant solution to all problems in this world. Verily! the poor are blessed,they have been given such an easy access to jannah!

    Is it fair to say that Pakistan is in certain aspects a feudal society with deep class divisions between a few politically well connected landlords and lots of poor landless farmers?


     Cheesy ..and you were questioning the man on the spot-donatelo! No offense



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #67 - January 31, 2011, 01:01 PM

    Cheesy ..and you were questioning the man on the spot-donatelo! No offense

    I am not quite sure how to read this - are you saying that my assertion is basically baseless?
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #68 - January 31, 2011, 01:09 PM

    By the way, I don't trust American's specially the ones assigned at the border or immigration. Also there are Americans who are raised in places where it is ok to shoot if someone steps on their property. Also there are many Americans who behave very bizzare when they enter Canada. (e.g driving way to fast on a small city street, throwing garbage out of window, although they won't do it in US. But they are very small in number, but they are still there) So I am not surprised at the way they crushed a Pakistani by their car.

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #69 - January 31, 2011, 01:11 PM

    No! I think this last assertion was spot on as donatelo might confirm. But your previous question to him suggested that you knew more about the Taliban and their interaction with the locals than he did!
    It's like your getting to know what's happening in your backyard from a newspaper report!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #70 - January 31, 2011, 01:16 PM

    No! I think this last assertion was spot on as donatelo might confirm.

    Excellent! What does that tell you?

    But your previous question to him suggested that you knew more about the Taliban and their interaction with the locals than he did!
    It's like you getting to know what's happening in your backyard from a newspaper report!

    You misunderstood me. I simply suggested that there might be an aspect of taliban/militant appeal that goes past simple religious fanaticism.
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #71 - January 31, 2011, 01:36 PM

    Excellent! What does that tell you?
    You misunderstood me.

    I know your  words are not for me.,  but... ,  no.. no.,  some people may misunderstand but not me.  I was just trying to get more info  from you  apart from heckling heroes of Islam  from land of pure.  

    Quote
    I simply suggested that there might be an aspect of taliban/militant appeal that goes past simple religious fanaticism.

    ah.. Ha!   that is exactly the point we need to highlight and discuss dear Kenan.,   let us think carefully here.  

    In your views ,   what are the attractive appeals/aspects  that taliban type of Muslim  preachers  offer to the 10 to 12 year old kids/folks to join them and  make them kill themselves + kill 100s of innocents that are NOT related to any Government persecuting  of  these so-called Taliban??  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #72 - January 31, 2011, 01:42 PM

    OK! I get where you are going with this, but is it a desirable solution in the long run?
    People have to wake up to the fact that religion is being used by one and all to manipulate the poor.
    Whether it's the Taliban,the military or the government, all have their own agendas that serve their ends,not the poor.
    Only a grass roots revolution like the one that took place in Tunisia will bring about a change.
    Like someone has said " Religion was invented by the rich to stop the poor from killing them"



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #73 - January 31, 2011, 01:46 PM



    heckling heroes of Islam  from land of pure.  
      

      


     Cheesy  Cheesy or dirty crooks?  finmad finmad



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #74 - January 31, 2011, 03:05 PM

    @yeezevee & hypocrucifier

    If you look at the big picture you will see that the appeal of the militants also lays in the fact that they are promising some sort of Islamic justice, they are promising an effective government and most importantly and this is the core issue here - they are promising economic redistribution and social justice. What I am trying to say is that the main and unaddressed issue here is the plight of the poor. The solution lies in emancipation of the poor in Pakistan who are in thrall of fundamentalist populism because nobody else is willing to address the issues and causes of their plight. It's as Walter Benjamin said "every rise of fascism bears witness to a failed revolution"; there is a dissatisfaction and a potential in Pakistan that progressives are simply unable to capture and channel.

    Consider Afghanistan for a moment. Only thirty years ago Afghanistan was a country with a strong secular tradition. The Communist Party in Afghanistan took power independently of Soviet Union. Check out Q-man's avatar for example. Where did all this tradition go?
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #75 - January 31, 2011, 03:48 PM

    @yeezevee & hypocrucifier
      It's as Walter Benjamin said "every rise of fascism bears witness to a failed revolution";  

    that is true.. But the basic problem is every revolution In Islam from Islam is noting but "FAILED REVOLUTIONS" and fascism stepped in in the name of Allah as a clan rule. You see this Islam thing works very well when you go on having wars destruction to enrage the public. and it did a good job during medieval times.
    Quote
    Consider Afghanistan for a moment. Only thirty years ago Afghanistan was a country with a strong secular tradition. The Communist Party in Afghanistan took power independently of Soviet Union. Check out Q-man's avatar for example. Where did all this tradition go?

     That is  true.  Even the communists  moved out of communism  but that is nothing to do with Allah book, Islamic world  Mullah preaching with the support Islamic feudal clans .  Who is stopping Islamic nations going communist/socialist path way??    The Rulers and the Mullahs together.  And Islam is no communism it is  clanism., A  Clannish Arab supremacy  built in dogma..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #76 - January 31, 2011, 03:59 PM

    If you look at the big picture you will see that the appeal of the militants also lays in the fact that they are promising some sort of Islamic justice, they are promising an effective government and most importantly and this is the core issue here - they are promising economic redistribution and social justice. What I am trying to say is that the main and unaddressed issue here is the plight of the poor. The solution lies in emancipation of the poor in Pakistan who are in thrall of fundamentalist populism because nobody else is willing to address the issues and causes of their plight. It's as Walter Benjamin said "every rise of fascism bears witness to a failed revolution"; there is a dissatisfaction and a potential in Pakistan that progressives are simply unable to capture and channel.

    +1

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #77 - January 31, 2011, 05:07 PM

    Is it fair to say that Pakistan is in certain aspects a feudal society with deep class divisions between a few politically well connected landlords and lots of poor landless farmers?



    @yeezevee & hypocrucifier

    If you look at the big picture you will see that the appeal of the militants also lays in the fact that they are promising some sort of Islamic justice, they are promising an effective government and most importantly and this is the core issue here - they are promising economic redistribution and social justice. What I am trying to say is that the main and unaddressed issue here is the plight of the poor. The solution lies in emancipation of the poor in Pakistan who are in thrall of fundamentalist populism because nobody else is willing to address the issues and causes of their plight. It's as Walter Benjamin said "every rise of fascism bears witness to a failed revolution"; there is a dissatisfaction and a potential in Pakistan that progressives are simply unable to capture and channel.

    Consider Afghanistan for a moment. Only thirty years ago Afghanistan was a country with a strong secular tradition. The Communist Party in Afghanistan took power independently of Soviet Union. Check out Q-man's avatar for example. Where did all this tradition go?


     Afro


    Quote
    One reason why so many people have joined various Taliban groups in the Swat Valley -- an area that is home to 1.3 million people with fertile land, orchards, vast plots of timber, and lucrative emerald mines -- is that the Taliban have successfully exploited the profound differences between wealthy landlords and their landless tenants. The Taliban seized power from about 50 big landlords who ruled the Swat Valley and then organized the long-suffering peasants into armed bands. The entire landowning clique fled the Valley, and the Taliban offered the economic spoils to the landless peasants of Swat Valley.

    Now is the time to end the feudal landlords’ domination of Pakistan, which has put workers and peasants in a subservient position and kept the middle class out of the highest circles of power.

    Feudalism and the Taliban are Pakistan’s evil twins. Pakistan has to finally eradicate feudalism to end extremism and enter the modern world.

    Pakistan must introduce land reforms, build a more vibrant middle class, reduce poverty, improve the education system, build roads, implement infrastructure projects, and establish industry in order to give people more opportunities for a better life. Otherwise, feudalism and intelligence agencies will only create more Frankenstein monsters in the future, long after the Taliban forces are gone.


    http://www.countercurrents.org/hussain120509.htm
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #78 - January 31, 2011, 05:57 PM


     Afro

    http://www.countercurrents.org/hussain120509.htm

    One reason why so many people have joined various Taliban groups in the Swat Valley -- an area that is home to 1.3 million people with fertile land, orchards, vast plots of timber, and lucrative emerald mines -- is that the Taliban have successfully exploited the profound differences between wealthy landlords and their landless tenants. The Taliban seized power from about 50 big landlords who ruled the Swat Valley

    Aphrodite, you seem to know very little about that area.,
    Who are those 50 landlords?? who are the leaders of Taliban(Pakistani Taliban)?? and how is this related to pashtuns across the borders??

    Land owners of Pakistan .. read the links
    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1712917,00.html
    http://richpaki.tripod.com/richest.htm

     
    Quote
    The army is the largest landowner in Pakistan. There is an army garrison every 15 km, and each large town has a "Defence Housing Society" where urban land in prize locations is allotted at throwaway prices.

    Most retired army officers are similarly allotted agricultural land. The army also possesses the largest economic investment group, the largest construction network, the largest goods transport system, and the largest education network in the country. It is the largest stockholder in stock exchanges, the largest health-marketing group and operates the largest political network in Pakistan through agencies like the ISI and the MI.

    Given all this, the army ensures that no taxation proposals or legislation can be passed that adversely affects these interests. It has a vested interest in seeing that no political party can challenge its hegemony within the country

    Nawaz Sharif paid Rs 3000 only as income tax in 1993 but this does not make him a tax evader because there are scores of other rich people, Ahmad Dawood, Nasim Saigol, Rafiq Habib, Mian Mohammad Mansha, Adamjee and Bawanys who have legendary wealth but do not income tax proportionate to their presumed income and lifestyle. Yet no case has ever been registered against them, evidently because like Nawaz Sharif, they too are making use of the exemptions, allowances and loopholes in the prevailing tax system.

    A list of Pakistan's RICHEST Individuals
    (Rs in millions)





    S.NO Name Wealth Wealth Tax
    1 Kh. Mohammad Kaleem 2,843,13715 5,43,519
    2 Kh. Mohammad Javed 2,585,29834 6,84,012
    3 Shahbaz Sharif 1,274,85359 3,316,833
    4 Afzal Raza Qazalbash 1,011,90203 446,533
    5 Amir uddin Feersata 9,133,6473 2,263,412
    6 Noor uddin Feersata 8,702,0121 2,170,503
    7 Mohammad Saeed 8,616,2815 101,973
    8 Mohammad Yusuf 6,818,0505 327
    9 Nawaz Sharif 6,527,0369 1,627,385
    10 Mohammad Munir Nawaz 5,771,6619 1,544,534
    11 Ambar Saigol 5,714,6973 2,004,045
    12 S Tahir Hassan 4,988,6910 1,225,610
    13 Jafar Ali Feersata 4,678,1329 1,300,834
    14 Amir Hassan 4,611,7850 1,251,690
    15 Nasir Hassan 4,566,4741 1,218,955
    16 Ghulam Mohammad Fecto 4,491,6815 4518
    17 Khalil A Sattar 4,317,4734 1,091,285
    18 Haroon Tayyab 4,221,7409 1,563,751
    19 Mohammad Naeem 3,711,1788 926,960
    20 Abass Sarfraz 3,370,6248 564,418
    21 Hussain Nawaz Sharif 3,285,6813 786,568
    22 Mian Mahboon Elahi 3,227,0122 1,054,541
    23 Mohammad Ilyas 3,189,3547 1,005,158

    Source: 1993 Wealth Tax Directory


    You know who works in those lands?? there are 3 to 4 million people that are NOT Muslims that works with these landlords..  I can assure you that they don't create Suicide  bomb factories..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #79 - January 31, 2011, 08:36 PM

    Quote
    Aphrodite, you seem to know very little about that area.,
    Who are those 50 landlords?? who are the leaders of Taliban(Pakistani Taliban)?? and how is this related to pashtuns across the borders??


    Idk who they are. Ermm Hakimullah mehsud? or was he killed? It was originally about the pashtuns across the border, now they (pak taliban) are in cahoots with other Islamic militant groups based in punjab and kashmir prolly. Meaning its a big issue and personally I think sooner or later the pak army will turn on each other the more liberal secular generals vs the religious minded ones :/ 
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #80 - February 01, 2011, 12:26 PM


    I don't suppose you realize that your position of supporting Pakistani military is completely inconsistent with the above?
    Have you read that book about Pakistani military billy recommended?
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=14342.msg394270#msg394270
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #81 - February 01, 2011, 01:04 PM

    I simply suggested that there might be an aspect of taliban/militant appeal that goes past simple religious fanaticism.

    I've never seen any calls for jihad accompanied by calls for rebellion against the feudal landlords or anything else related to landlords. Its always about killing infidels in israel, india, and the U.S.
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #82 - February 01, 2011, 01:12 PM

    they are promising economic redistribution and social justice.

    They aren't. I've never seen this mentioned anywhere in any of the jihadi propoganda.

    What I am trying to say is that the main and unaddressed issue here is the plight of the poor. The solution lies in emancipation of the poor in Pakistan who are in thrall of fundamentalist populism

    I think the solution lies in education and the type of reforms that Kemal Ataturk did in Turkey. That's the only solution that I can see. Religious fundamentalism won't go away simply by giving people money. The overall 'culture' of the place must be changed.
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #83 - February 01, 2011, 01:19 PM

    I think the solution lies in education and the type of reforms that Kemal Ataturk did in Turkey. That's the only solution that I can see. Religious fundamentalism won't go away simply by giving people money. The overall 'culture' of the place must be changed.

    +1

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  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #84 - February 01, 2011, 01:21 PM

    And I think doing this type of reforms in Pakistan will be a lot harder than in Turkey.. I don't know if someone will be brave enough to do it, and charismatic enough to sway the majority of public in his favor..
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #85 - February 01, 2011, 01:42 PM

    Governor Taseer tried, but his plans came to an abrupt end.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #86 - February 01, 2011, 01:44 PM

    True.
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #87 - February 01, 2011, 01:47 PM

    Governor Taseer tried, but his plans came to an abrupt end.

    How can any one succeed when the country has BURKAH CLAD ROGUES AS LAWYERS in the courts? ; today's news at

    http://www.dawn.com/2011/02/01/court-defers-mumtaz-qadri%E2%80%99s-indictment.html

     says on that baboon who murdered that good man in cold blood



    Quote
    Court defers Mumtaz Qadri's indictment

    RAWALPINDI: A court on Tuesday deferred the indictment of Malik Mumtaz Hussain Qadri, the police commando who confessed to killing Punjab governor Salman Taseer, his lawyer said. Mumtaz Qadri said he shot dead Salman Taseer outside a cafe after lunch in Islamabad on January 4 because he objected to Taseer;s calls to reform the blasphemy law, which carries the death penalty.

    One of Qadri’s lawyers, Raja Shuja Rehman, told AFP that the indictment could not take place as planned because the prosecution had yet to provide the defence with six police statements.

    “The court has ordered that the statements be provided to us and the next hearing has been fixed on February 4. According to the rules, an indictment can be done seven days after statements are provided,; he added.

    Taseer&'s killing drew mixed reactions in Pakistan, where many from the increasingly powerful conservative religious quarter praised the gunman for acting to silence the politician.

    About 100 men and youths gathered outside the high-security Adiyala prison in Rawalpindi, calling for his release, shouting “Have some shame, free Qadri;. The protesters nudged in front of the judges car as he arrived for the hearing at the prison but there was no incident, an AFP reporter said.

    Qadri was showered with petals at initial court hearings after he admitted to the murder.

    Rehman claimed Qadri&;s health was deteriorating.

    “We are concerned about his health. It is deteriorating and we will hold the administration responsible if anything happens to Qadri,&; he said.

    Investigation officer Hakim Khan told the court that cleric Hanif Qureshi and another man, Imtiaz Shah, were no longer relevant to enquiries.

    Qureshi and Shah were released on bail after Qadri said he shot Taseer after listening to their speeches.

    Incredible .. THAT BABOONS HEALTH IS deteriorating

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #88 - February 01, 2011, 01:59 PM

    Going back to that   news   American kills three in Lahore_ the matter of Raymond Davis David.   The Dawn columnist says

    Quote
    Cutting off the nose…

     BEING the rather unique people we are, as demonstrated by yours truly many a time in this space, we are proceeding to do just that: cutting off the (our) nose to spite the (our) face in the matter of Raymond Davis David.

    Quote
    He is alleged to be, variously, a spy, a Blackwater operative, a security guard and a US diplomat. There are as many stories about the man in our press as there are reporters in the newspapers, not one of them leading the reader to any conclusion. Ghairat Brigades

    In just one day we are regaled by differing accounts in different newspapers: one saying David had overstayed his visa by two years, another telling us his visa was valid until 2012; one saying he was not a diplomat, yet another telling us that he was an `official`, and so on and so forth.

    I have been following this case since the day of the shooting, have read every word written about it, and have to say that I am most confused. Nothing makes sense at all — a lot of which has to do with the conspiracy theorists and the and their spin quacks putting a spin on any aspect they can get their hands on. Motor cycle sawaron nein nikaley aur goray ko lootnain ki koshish ki jiss peh goray nein unnko goliaan marein gora


    What I myself saw on the very day of the shooting, about two hours after the event, was the interview of a young man off the street, conducted by a loud and vociferous channel. When asked what he had seen the man said:
    Quote
    “pistol” (“The two motorcyclists drew their pistols to rob the foreigner [using the near-pejorative term , or Whitey] who shot them dead”). This was repeated twice in a period of 30 or so minutes and then taken off air.

     This is what I saw and heard myself. It is pertinent to note that that young man has not been seen, nor heard from, again. Neither has any newspaper quoted what he said on record.

    Far more than this, there are stories in the press that the police is hesitant to register cases of mobile phone and wallet snatching against the two, crimes that two people allege they committed a few hours before their encounter with David, for fear of a `backlash`. Ghairat Brigades

    Is this in itself a case of the dishonestly trying to turn the situation into an ugly one for the government, and for generally queering the pitch even further for American-Pakistani official relations? Is this yet another conspiracy to throw yet another spanner in the works with regards to the war on terror? None of which, of course, is to say that the Americans have done what they should have done in the very first instance: give a clear statement on just who the man was, what the circumstances of the shooting were, and then stick to it.....

    read it all at  http://www.dawn.com/2011/02/01/cutting-off-the-nose.html

    Rogues in Power.. rogues in Police and Rogues in Courts...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Oh boy! news says American kills three in Lahore!
     Reply #89 - February 01, 2011, 04:14 PM

    This is indeed going out of control... 


    U.S. Murder Case Threatens Pakistan Ties  says news

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20030177-503543.html



    read it all at the link...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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