Tariq Ramadan´s prayer

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Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
Reply #30 - February 15, 2011, 07:59 PM

Tariq Ramadan.. A guy which were once in those lowlands which we , the Dutchmen, inhabit. Quite some controversy around him,- exactly because of the doublespeak which many some Islamic scholars exhibit.
Another example (which was quite vogue some times, and also now) is the Islamic community, Turkish based around the personality of Fethullah Gulen: An Islamic scholar well-known in the western world, teaching his very liberal Islamic virtues and values.
He being heavily criticzed by the more orthodox Muslims as he teaches things which are "absolutely blasphemous", i.e. the idea that ahl-e-kitab may enter jannah.
Yet is he also being criticized by secular people, exactly because why we here also criticize those liberal muslims, and other Islam symphatisants a-la Karen armstrong

I shouldn't be here. Really. Shaytan SWT deluded ALL of us. Amen.
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Re: Tariq Ramadan´s prayer
Reply #31 - February 15, 2011, 09:13 PM

Quote from: Kenan on February 12, 2011, 08:53 AM
The fact that such things are common says a lot about pathology of mainstream Islam.

But I am not sure if you realize that Tariq Ramadan is hailed as Martin Luther King of Islam, a great reformer (who btw cannot even summon enough moral fibre to condemn stoning and such), a brilliant Islamic intellectual etc.

+1

If you read Ramadan's book, "How to be a European Muslim" there is not a single mention of enemies of Islam to my recollection. It is all about the Dar ul Dawah and nothing about wars, conflict. The guy is a self-styled reformer who is a walking example of why Islamic reformation is such a futile idea. His most "radical" idea was to call for a moratorium on huddud punishments in Muslim countries until an Islamic state was properly established, he has never called for the relaxation or removal of huddud punishments. Even that caused an outcry in the Muslim world, everyone got their panties in a bunch over it. If that is the shining pinnacle of Islamic reformation then I'll pass.

Quote from: DH on February 11, 2011, 02:20 PM
Indeed, there is no reason to suppose that such things WOULDN'T be routinely said in the average mosque, since they represent core IslamIC and not just "IslamIST" ideas.

I have to agree. These ideas are, in my opinion, embedded in Islam, it's just that most Muslims ignore them therefore the term Islamist has been coined to describe those who are going back to the roots of Islam.
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Re: Tariq Ramadan´s prayer
Reply #32 - February 15, 2011, 11:08 PM

Quote from: Eliphaz on February 15, 2011, 09:13 PM
The guy is a self-styled reformer who is a walking example of why Islamic reformation is such a futile idea. His most "radical" idea was to call for a moratorium on huddud punishments in Muslim countries until an Islamic state was properly established, he has never called for the relaxation or removal of huddud punishments.

This is the kind of troll logic you'd expect from a Pakistani politician, not Tariq.

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Re: Tariq Ramadan´s prayer
Reply #33 - February 16, 2011, 06:43 AM

Quote from: Eliphaz
These ideas are, in my opinion, embedded in Islam, it's just that most Muslims ignore them

I am not sure whether most Muslims do - either overall in the world or in western countries. Some Muslims are ignorant of large parts of the religion they profess to follow. SEE WHAT CAN HAPPEN when an "ignorant" Muslim is informed of details of their faith of which they were hitherto unaware.

Quote
therefore the term Islamist has been coined to describe those who are going back to the roots of Islam.

If you google the words (inc quotation marks) "the term Islamist was coined by", there are a large number of conflicting claims as to who did in fact coin it. The trouble with the term is that it has been appropriated by straw-clutching western "progressives" to make a fallacious distinction between Islam/Muslims per se and the ideology of al-Qaeda et al.

The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
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Re: Tariq Ramadan?s prayer
Reply #34 - February 16, 2011, 08:52 AM

What we are differentiating between is interpretations of the same evil logic when we compare Al Qaeda to the other Islamists such as HuT. There is obviously a spectrum and somewhere along that spectrum the group is no longer "considered" Islamic by a majority of Muslims and therefore is rejected.

Interestingly the group TR's grandfather formed, the Muslim Brotherhood would probably be considered Islamic by most Muslims, but Ramadan has always done his own thing. I wonder if anyone actually listens to him anymore apart from Western intellectuals?
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