Pascals wager

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- superomario
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Pascals wager
OP - February 18, 2011, 06:16 AM

If anyone's familiar with Pascals wager this youtuber explains the flaw in pascals wager and how religious people try to use it as a way to get atheists to just go with the flow and not rock the boat. I love his humorous spin on it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg1zg_uHOQw&feature=related
- osmanthus
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Re: Pascals wager
Reply #1 - February 18, 2011, 06:50 AM

Check this out if you want to mess with theist's heads: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/heaven.html

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- QueenIsabel
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Re: Pascals wager
Reply #2 - February 18, 2011, 09:48 PM

lol
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Re: Pascals wager
Reply #3 - February 18, 2011, 10:43 PM

No: As far as I know the Muslims (around me that is) never bring up Pascal's Wager, exactly because such an eemaan wouldn't even be accepted by Allah. (Not to mention the very valid point brought forward in the video above.)

I shouldn't be here. Really. Shaytan SWT deluded ALL of us. Amen.
- neale
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Re: Pascals wager
Reply #4 - February 20, 2011, 08:34 PM

What Pascal's Wager also neglects to mention is there's a stake on the part of the believer.

It states that there is a no lose scenario, not true.

All those hours spent on your knees. All the emotional effort, all the time involved, all the money given to the religion.
As well as all the guilt associated with belief etc etc. This must ammount to something.

So when one looks at the wager one must realise that Pascal offers a false dichotomy. What you have to lose is all the religious activities "invested" during your life. If god does not exist they've all been for nought.

"Happy happy, joy joy!" Stimpson J Cat.
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Re: Pascals wager
Reply #5 - February 20, 2011, 08:56 PM

@Neale, yeah but then again : This life is basically void of any purpose, meaning or gain anyway: After death there is just this nothingness, nothing will make any difference:
Whether you Muslim, Christian or atheist, whether you were happy or depressed, whether you were rich or poor, nothing, no thing can have any influence on your "state" after death. After death, you will face the same fate like the zillions of sperm cells which got caught up in rubbers, aborted fetuses, childs dieing at a young age.. or any other person dieing at any age..

So equally just like salat is for nought, nada, nothing,- equally are all other activities in our lives. Well, one may argue that life DOES have some value, -as undoubtedly humanity will live on after one's death. However, this only moves the problem, as undoubtedly at one time in the distant future humanity will cease to exist,- and as a result every progress, every insight, every single idea will be lost for ever as there won't be ever sepient being capable of deciphering the human mind..

I shouldn't be here. Really. Shaytan SWT deluded ALL of us. Amen.
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Re: Pascals wager
Reply #6 - February 20, 2011, 09:13 PM

My point was that time+effort+money invested in a religion impinges in the life you are currently living. Whether the religion is true or not.

Therefore Pascals Wager as it's presented holds a false dichotomy.

The wager says you have nothing to lose by believing. If there is no god you don't lose. This clearly is not true.

"Happy happy, joy joy!" Stimpson J Cat.
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Re: Pascals wager
Reply #7 - February 20, 2011, 09:23 PM

I guess Pascal's Wager is pretty much irrelevant to people who genuinely believe and feel joy and a sense of community and commitment in Islam, just like I had sometimes periods in which I really enjoyed praying, being in the knowledge, the awareness that I connect to the All-Mighty Creator of the Cosmos: That feeling, that tranquility I miss: but it's something which I can never get back as the façade of Islam, the delusion has become clear without any ambiguity.

Yes: I miss that peace; and at that time if anyone had suggested that those salat might be for nought I would've victoriously and proudly told them that those salats were the sweetest thing in the whole universe.
It makes me kind of depressed that I can never ever feel that peace I felt through any kind of meditation,- any kind of "religious experience" anymore..

You said that regardless of the veracity of one religion, the energy invested in it still impinges in one's life: However, so does *any*thing: from socializing on CEMB to spending good time with your family and friends: I believe that if someone enjoyes something, that he/she can never "loose" anything,- not to mention that everything (primarily your consciousness) is going to be lost for ever anyway after one's time here on earth.

I shouldn't be here. Really. Shaytan SWT deluded ALL of us. Amen.
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Re: Pascals wager
Reply #8 - February 20, 2011, 09:44 PM

Pascals Wager is presented as a challange for those who don't believe.

Believers lose nothing because the certainty they have will make their religious activity while they are alive worthwhile in itself.

But the sceptic who Pascal himself was challenging, who has to make a conscious effort in his proficiations may well lose retrospectivly if his efforts are not rewarded.

"Happy happy, joy joy!" Stimpson J Cat.
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