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Theme Changer

 Topic: Religion and Gays & Lesbians

 (Read 1893 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Religion and Gays & Lesbians
     OP - February 20, 2011, 10:51 PM


    It occured to me, that gays make the religious uneasy for a reason greater than the visceral prurient (and creepy) disgust engendered by the act of a man laying with a man or a woman with a woman.

    And that is because gay liberation, gay equality, gay rights and the struggle to defeat prejudice against homosexuals is a struggle, a movement and a cause that definitively by-passed, ignored, rendered obsolete the moral claims of religion. The gay rights movement was rooted in enlightenment, humanist principles. Not the moral claims of religion. In fact, it is a great mass liberation that shamed religion and denied its ethical claims definitively.

    Even now when there are reformist schools inside religions, especially Christianity and Judaism, they are responding to a moral reality engendered by secular humanism. As much as it gets dressed up as being in the name of a religious compassion, it is an adjustment to a new reality of modernity that is rooted in the enlightenment values that began to become manifest in the 1960's and 1970's, a great civil rights movement of our time. It is to that which reformist Christian and Jewish schools respond. In India there is a growing gay rights movement whose progress is not predicated on the largesse of Hinduism, but on the rights enshrined in the Indian constitution, which is a secular, enlightened document focussing on the rights of the individual.

    In fact, gay equality is probably the one modern reality and struggle that negated the moral claims of the collective religious impulse most profoundly, because as much as anything else it struggled against the institutionalised and grassroots persecution that religion either directly inculcated or perpetuated, either by fire and brimstone directive, or through inhibiting the recognition of the humanity of the persecuted.

    This makes religion uneasy on such a profound, deep level. It goes deeper than just the sexual issue. The ascendancy of gay rights and the struggle against prejudice against gays is directly contiguous with the ascendancy of liberal, secular, humanism and the priveliging of the rights of the individual and free conscience over those of the collective, especially the religious collective.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Religion and Gays & Lesbians
     Reply #1 - February 20, 2011, 11:24 PM

    It is one that is seems especially weak for religious factions to deal with too, because while it may seem that people have adverse reactions to homosexual sex if they are heterosexual it is difficult to come up with arguments of why they should be killed or otherwise denied rights.  While religious figures in the past focused on the societal effect of disbelief, drugs, promiscuity,etc almost all the religious text simply mentioned the prohibition of homosexuality in a passing religious fiat sort of way.   

    Thats why when gay rights gets brought up religious people tend to either rely on emotive arguments ( that is disgusting), to athoratative arguments ( God says it wrong), but when it comes to logical, coherent, thought out reasons they are sorely lacking. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Religion and Gays & Lesbians
     Reply #2 - February 20, 2011, 11:35 PM

    I dunno. Opposition to slavery was also rooted in Enlightenment values and there was little Biblical foundation for abolitionism, but that didn't stop Christians from leading the charge in the Abolitionist movement, and a lot of those Christians were not all that liberal apart from that one issue-- the New England Puritans at the forefront of the movement weren't what most people would think of as "liberals". Indeed the most progressive, radical Abolitionist-- John Brown-- could probably have been classed as a religious fundamentalist.

    fuck you
  • Re: Religion and Gays & Lesbians
     Reply #3 - February 20, 2011, 11:43 PM

    You know why ppl hate the gay movement?
    Because there is absolutely NO WAY you can rhyme the homophobic Qur'an/Ahadith with gay rights. I know that the more liberal Muslims around me say that "probably they are born that way, but they basically need to lead a life like a priest, ie. without ever indulging in that despicable act of sodomy". The more orthodox say that the homosexual needs to be thrown off the highest cliff one can found.  lipsrsealed mysmilie_977

    I shouldn't be here. Really. Shaytan SWT deluded ALL of us. Amen.
  • Re: Religion and Gays & Lesbians
     Reply #4 - February 21, 2011, 12:03 AM

    I dunno. Opposition to slavery was also rooted in Enlightenment values and there was little Biblical foundation for abolitionism, but that didn't stop Christians from leading the charge in the Abolitionist movement, and a lot of those Christians were not all that liberal apart from that one issue-- the New England Puritans at the forefront of the movement weren't what most people would think of as "liberals". Indeed the most progressive, radical Abolitionist-- John Brown-- could probably have been classed as a religious fundamentalist.


    But thats the point I'm making. Religion did play a part in earlier social liberation movements like anti-slavery (Wilberforce was a committed Christian for example), in fact the religious fervour of the movement 'ennobled' and activated their belief even further.

    In the context of gay liberation and equality there is a void and a kind of wrong footing there, religion in fact was and is at the forefront of persecution (with the caveats of reformist schools that have responded to the changing moral reality)


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

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