Help me return to Islam

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- musivore
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Help me return to Islam
OP - March 23, 2011, 02:39 PM

This is probably not the best place to make this plea, but since I respect the opinions of most of the people on this forum, I’m gonna give this a shot.

I left this forum about six months ago (not long after arriving really), because my Islamic wife said I had to. I’m one for an easy life, so I obliged. However, in the last month, she has started trying to push me more and more towards Islam. Unfortunately, she will no longer take, ‘Is it your time of the month or somet?’ for an answer…

It seems I have three choices:

1) Return to Islam
2) Divorce
3) Return to Islam

Now, I have tried meditating my way back to the fold and have even started talking to a Sheikh in order to receive some guidance (he seems a nice enough guy anyways)… However, is there something else I can do to get back to where I need to be? Are there any drugs out there that will help me to swallow the crap that I’m being fed? Would a lobotomy work?

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- muddy
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #1 - March 23, 2011, 02:42 PM

Try 3-Talaq stretagy..

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- Ishina
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #2 - March 23, 2011, 02:47 PM

4) Man up.

Square your shoulders, hold your head high, draw a line, defend it.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
- musivore
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #3 - March 23, 2011, 02:48 PM

Unfortunately, I love this woman. Plus we have a little boy who I was hoping we'd bring up together...

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- Ishina
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #4 - March 23, 2011, 02:50 PM

All the more reason to lay a few home truths down.

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- musivore
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #5 - March 23, 2011, 02:50 PM

I treid that Ishina (and only because she left with me no choice). She ended up in tears after I presented my side of things and went into a week-long depression. I really don't want her to go through that again.

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- Ishina
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #6 - March 23, 2011, 02:53 PM

Emotional blackmail is no foundation for a strong relationship and no atmosphere to raise a child in.

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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #7 - March 23, 2011, 02:54 PM

Quote from: musivore on March 23, 2011, 02:48 PM
Unfortunately, I love this woman.

That's precisely why you should hold your ground.
- yeezevee
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #8 - March 23, 2011, 02:59 PM

Quote from: musivore on March 23, 2011, 02:39 PM
This is probably not the best place to make this plea, but since I respect the opinions of most of the people on this forum, I’m gonna give this a shot.

I left this forum about six months ago (not long after arriving really), because my Islamic wife said I had to. I’m one for an easy life, so I obliged. However, in the last month, she has started trying to push me more and more towards Islam. Unfortunately, she will no longer take, ‘Is it your time of the month or somet?’ for an answer…

It seems I have three choices:

1) Return to Islam
2) Divorce
3) Return to Islam

Don't be silly ., be a Good Muslim., marry three more Islamic wives according to Quran and make sure all of them get some job and give you the money every month., What all you need to do is make some kids with them and go for fishing have a beer with some friends on a boat. Don't say Talaq.. Talaq .. until you have four Islamic wives and the give you their monthly salaries for a year or so..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- musivore
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #9 - March 23, 2011, 03:04 PM

Quote from: Ishina on March 23, 2011, 02:53 PM
Emotional blackmail is no foundation for a strong relationship and no atmosphere to raise a child in.

I don't think it was emotional blackmail. I think she is genuinely depressed at the thought of having married a sinner. I think, quite possibly, she has always been fighting these feelings , but has locked them away. She is now looking for a solution.

Yezeevee, that made me smile..

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- King Koopa
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #10 - March 23, 2011, 03:06 PM

If you're not gonna draw a line and you won't divorce and she won't change then I guess you have to change..

Are you willing to do this? In the long run? We're talking life here. It also means lying on one level to your wife and kid. Also consider what kind of lessons you're passing on. Also consider if the love in your relationship is based on love, or other factors, such as fear and loyalty (from her side to Allah).

But if you are ready to take the bluepill (red being the one releasing you) then you can just pretend to be in Matrix land. You don't have to convince yourself to be in Matrix land, I'm not even sure that will be possible anymore. Or healthy for that matter, brain-washing yourself :S
- Ishina
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #11 - March 23, 2011, 03:07 PM

Your child is your priority, not your guilt, not her ‘stuff’. Do you think you can keep this tension away from your child? Children are excellent mimics and as a matter of survival and purpose pick up the subtle and not-so-subtle social cues from the so-called adults around them, and they are woven into the fabric of their developing being. You and your wife are his first example, his first love, his first inspiration, his first critics, his first friends, his teachers, his counsellors, his idols, his gods.

Mother is the name of god on the lips and hearts of all little children. She would do well to realise that.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
- muddy
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #12 - March 23, 2011, 03:10 PM

Quote from: musivore on March 23, 2011, 03:04 PM
I don't think it was emotional blackmail.

Yes, it exactly IS!!

Either you go into depression for submitting to her will, or she goes into depression! Both wrong!! May be go for counselling to learn how to live together with different point of views!!

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- mighty_cats
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #13 - March 23, 2011, 03:12 PM

If you have children, it's going to be the same thing.
You will have to indoctrinate them into this nonsense, which will also be blackmailed onto you.

Ofcourse you will have to lie to yourself permanently, more so when it comes to your children when you HAVE to provide a situation where they won't be given the ability to undergo the use of reason and logic or have the ability to come to your conclusion , atleast until they're out of the house...in around 18+ years..

It's not going to be an easy choice either way, but you have to weigh up
truth, facts, evidence, your own mind, honesty, personal beliefs, your childrens minds and possibly their lifestyles morals and ethics for the rest of their lives.
vs
Your wifes weak positivity towards having a 'muslim husband'
and her questionable ability to live in denial for the rest of her life.
- Cheetah
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #14 - March 23, 2011, 03:16 PM

At some stage your child is going to become an adult, and realise that you don't believe in the religion you've been pretending to believe in all his life. When he realises that he will start to despise you, and probably resent his mother for having bullied you into it too. I don't think you have the right to inflict such future mental health issues on your son.

Btw, your wife will know at some level even if you do pretend, so she will start to despise you too.

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
- yeezevee
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #15 - March 23, 2011, 03:19 PM

Quote from: Ishina on March 23, 2011, 03:07 PM
Your child is your priority, not your guilt, not her ‘stuff’. ..

Mother is the name of god on the lips and hearts of all little children....

Damn I didn't know that Ishina is such a good girl and with full of motherly feelings..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- mighty_cats
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #16 - March 23, 2011, 03:21 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on March 23, 2011, 03:16 PM
At some stage your child is going to become an adult, and realise that you don't believe in the religion you've been pretending to believe in all his life. When he realises that he will start to despise you, and probably resent his mother for having bullied you into it too. I don't think you have the right to inflict such future mental health issues on your son.

Btw, your wife will know at some level even if you do pretend, so she will start to despise you too.

^

It can quite easily go the other way where his children never get the chance to come to any other conclusion outside of Islam or question it, because let's face it:
His wife is obviously not going to allow any kind of environment where Islam would be questioned or apostasy be a possibility and if you can be guilt tripped into living a lie, you sure as hell can be guilt tripped into making your children live one too.
- zomzom
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #17 - March 23, 2011, 03:22 PM

I don't think you should take any advice from anyone on a online forum. However, and this is my opinion, (I am also married to a Muslim woman) I think it is best to pretend you're a Muslim rather then getting a divorce. After a while she realized I have no faith, recently I have been pretending I have faith since she was going through a pretty bad patch and I knew the placebo effect faith has so I was not to upset about her praying 5 times a day, if it kept her happy and made her feel good.

Though I am a extentaionalist, I don't think reason and rationalist are the be all and end all, at the end of the day you have to realize diametric views will always exist, and you can't always disprove or prove things based on logic as Godel showed with his incompleteness theorems.

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
- Cheetah
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #18 - March 23, 2011, 03:23 PM

Quote
It can quite easily go the other way where his children never get the chance to come to any other conclusion outside of Islam or question it, because let's face it:
His wife is obviously not going to allow any kind of environment where Islam would be questioned or apostasy be a possibility and if you can be guilt tripped into living a lie, you sure as hell can be guilt tripped into making your children live one too.

True, but whether or not they question their childhood faith themselves, they can still sense whether or not their parents really believe it. I did, (from about age 13 onwards).

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
- serrated_colon
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #19 - March 23, 2011, 03:27 PM

Quote from: King Tut on March 23, 2011, 03:22 PM
I don't think you should take any advice from anyone on a online forum. However, and this is my opinion, (I am also married to a Muslim woman) I think it is best to pretend you're a Muslim rather then getting a divorce. After a while she realized I have no faith, recently I have been pretending I have faith since she was going through a pretty bad patch and I knew the placebo effect faith has so I was not to upset about her praying 5 times a day, if it kept her happy and made her feel good.

Though I am a extentaionalist, I don't think reason and rationalist are the be all and end all, at the end of the day you have to realize diametric views will always exist, and you can't always disprove or prove things based on logic as Godel showed with his incompleteness theorems.

godel's incompleteness theorems were purely speaking from an abstract context. that's not an excuse to just accept that forcing one to have views that one thinks are wrong is okay.
- zomzom
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #20 - March 23, 2011, 03:28 PM

Another thing I want to point out is, there is no point thinking about it hypothetically, if your child grows up etc, etc, you can pretty much rationalize anything hypothetically. What you need to look at is the situation you're currently in. You have a small child and if you don't accept Islam it is more then likely your wife (whom you love) will want a divorce. That be worse for the child, and bad for you also, and your wife, since she could try to take the child away from you, and have you ostracized from the community. Anyway Islamically speaking (and your wife must be aware of this) your marriage to her is invalid, she is committing adultery if you both are having sex. So either she loves you or she's not that Islamic.

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
- zomzom
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #21 - March 23, 2011, 03:33 PM

Quote from: serrated_colon on March 23, 2011, 03:27 PM
godel's incompleteness theorems were purely speaking from an abstract context. that's not an excuse to just accept that forcing one to have views that one thinks are wrong is okay.

I was trying to point out, that it is futile to try to live all your live based on logic, and reason alone, or to even try to push those kind of views onto your partner, and to hold an uncompromisable position. At the end of the day his wife could become less Islamic down the line, where Islam would not even matter much. There are alot of closet apostates for the sake of keeping the family unity, that is not necessarily a bad thing, particularly speaking purely from an Islamic angle you're the man in the relationship.

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
- musivore
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #22 - March 23, 2011, 03:34 PM

BD - great advice, thanks. Maybe lying to my wife is the answer. I never really considered this until now, feeling that it would be a downward spiral for us if I went down that road. But there doesn't seem to be any other way out of this mess.

Ish - I think the fact that my son is now becoming a toddler has pushed my wife into this now. She wants all the argument/ tension out of the way now. But you're right, things are gonna be a bit of a mess for the poor child, no matter which path I take.

Mighty mouse - I think I'm willing to sacrifice many of my ideals in order to keep this marriage afloat. But when I see it written in black and white, like in your summary, I’m even more concerned about what I would let go by giving in.

Cheetah – as bad as this sounds, I’m willing to fix this immediate problem first and deal with the ill-feeling that may fester in my son at a later date... Also, I think you’re right that my wife will despise me if I pretend – but she has already started to genuinely hate me for not conceding.

Thanks for the excellent advice everyone. I think I need time to digest this because, right now, I’m no clearer on the way forward.

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- musivore
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #23 - March 23, 2011, 03:41 PM

King Tut - what you're saying seems to make a lot of sense to me. It may not be the most veritous or the most ideal opinion, but it is definitley the one that appeals to me right now.

Sex is off the menu, btw and has been ever since this subject got bought up between me and my wife. That doesn't really bother me though, I've always been a wanker.

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- Ishina
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #24 - March 23, 2011, 03:48 PM

Quote from: musivore on March 23, 2011, 03:34 PM
Ish - I think the fact that my son is now becoming a toddler has pushed my wife into this now. She wants all the argument/ tension out of the way now. But you're right, things are gonna be a bit of a mess for the poor child, no matter which path I take.

Be sure to distinguish between a mothers sincere concern for her family unit and a person opportunistically seizing a chance to impress long-harboured wants and needs onto others - namely, you and your son.

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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #25 - March 23, 2011, 03:49 PM

Quote from: musivore on March 23, 2011, 02:39 PM
This is probably not the best place to make this plea, but since I respect the opinions of most of the people on this forum, I’m gonna give this a shot.

I left this forum about six months ago (not long after arriving really), because my Islamic wife said I had to. I’m one for an easy life, so I obliged. However, in the last month, she has started trying to push me more and more towards Islam. Unfortunately, she will no longer take, ‘Is it your time of the month or somet?’ for an answer…

It seems I have three choices:

1) Return to Islam
2) Divorce
3) Return to Islam

Now, I have tried meditating my way back to the fold and have even started talking to a Sheikh in order to receive some guidance (he seems a nice enough guy anyways)… However, is there something else I can do to get back to where I need to be? Are there any drugs out there that will help me to swallow the crap that I’m being fed? Would a lobotomy work?

Repeat after me:

Ash-hadu an la ilaha illah allah wa anna muhammadan rasul-allah.

Mashallah brother! <BIG HUG>..... "Takbeeeeer!"

Problem solved.

ps - sorry to be flippant - it's a difficult situation, but in my case I cannot live a lie - but ppl are different - I think you are going to just have to consult your own conscience and make your own choice - there are of consequences to both choices.
- zomzom
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #26 - March 23, 2011, 03:50 PM

Quote from: musivore on March 23, 2011, 03:41 PM
King Tut - what you're saying seems to make a lot of sense to me. It may not be the most veritous or the most ideal opinion, but it is definitley the one that appeals to me right now.

Sex is off the menu, btw and has been ever since this subject got bought up between me and my wife. That doesn't really bother me though, I've always been a wanker.

Look at it this why, it is something completely internal and subjective to you so why should it matter to anyone else, even your wife? As long as you're not doing it for malicious reasons. The fact that you'll spend more time with your child like this, and to help him into the right direction will help alot. Let the child decide for himself if he wants to be a Muslim or not, if you teach him how to see through bullshit, he will most likely not accept Islam, the more educated you're the least likely you're to believe in religion/God.

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #27 - March 23, 2011, 04:05 PM

Tell her that you love her. Ask her to look into her heart and think about how well you have treated her, how good a husband you have been. Tell her that you want to continue being with her. Talk about your son. How you want to raise him with her, how he needs the love of both parents.

Question her, is it not that you have allowed her to practice her religion freely and never allowed it to cross into your relationship. Tell her that you expect the same of her, and that if she truly loved you, she will accept you for who you are which includes your worldview. Add some pink frost too... like how Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance and so Muslims should view all humans with an equal eye and that if Allah exists, surely it knows that you are a good human.

Tell her that you can follow Islam in other ways like patience, forbearance, peace, love and compassion for all, charity, modesty etc

Fake friends flatter you. Their compliments are made up. Nasty enemies criticize you harshly. They pick on you unnecessarily. Neither of them help you improve yourself. The best critic is honest and knows you exactly and the best person you can choose to follow is someone closest to you.
- musivore
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #28 - March 23, 2011, 04:05 PM

Ishina – I have to assume her concerns are genuine and in the interest of our son. Otherwise, the love I have for her would start to disintegrate.

Hassan – it’s good to see that you’re as level-headed as ever. What did you make of The Strokes’ album, btw?

The King – once again, I like what you’re saying (maybe I was looking for this opinion when I started this thread, to give what I am about to do some feeble credibility in my mind)

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- Ishina
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Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #29 - March 23, 2011, 04:09 PM

Consider this: Your wife is just as likely to stifle your son as much as she is right now stifling you. In some years, your son may well be on this very forum, asking for advice on how to deal with the intolerable demands of his mother, while wondering why his father mysteriously sits back and lets it happen. He may very well use the same line: “whenever I try and reason with her, she cries and makes me feel guilty”

What advice would you give him?

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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