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 Topic: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?

 (Read 13503 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     OP - April 04, 2011, 12:34 AM
    As in Freudian theory, the Id and the super ego.  If you believe in the concept to some extent, do you believe that you suffer a super ego instilled by an Islamic upbringing.

    It's very apparant that the ex muslim Id runs riot around this forum lol lustful, wanton, newly freed muslims, we drink, we fuck, some of us do drugs.  We are Id unleashed most of the time.

    But are we suffering any super ego damage?

    I know I do.  Fuck, my super ego is a hell of an Islamically repressed nagging bitch who rarely shuts up, and infact only shuts up when my Id reigns supreme.

    In lust my Id reigns and I feel freed from my super ego.

    In my drinking my Id reigns and I feel freed from my restraints.

    In my 'wake and bake' lifestyle my Id reigns and I feel freed from my bonds.

    When I relax, it seems my super ego is quiet, and I am not always berating myself for all the above, especially the lust = punishment Freudian idea.

    I'm free, but I'm not free, I'm open, but I'm not open, I am not having an easy time with the remnants of religion.

    Have we all shaken off our shackles successfully?

    Ladies how free do you really feel to give into whatever you want?

    Men.................eh, I find it harder to believe that the super ego punishment of lust really happens to men, even with an Islamic, no sex before marriage, background.  But maybe I am wrong, do you ever feel like you shouldn't give into your Id?

    I'm not saying I can't do it.  My Id is also a demanding part of me, and difficult to control when she starts running rampant.  (the puns, the puns)  But my super ego, my nagging muslim background, my repressed judgemental aspects is always somewhere in the background just waiting to pounce.

    How does it go for you?

    How much have you progressed in eliminating those traces of a life that once held you and your thoughts, in a vice like grip, that was slowly crushing the spirit out of you?

    (My super ego is going to batter me in the morning for creating this thread too Grin )
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #1 - April 04, 2011, 12:49 AM
    Speaking of mostly normal people here/ I don't think anyone can escape their super ego. Super ego can get damaged (go from Islamic to Atheist, etc) though it usually just damages it's owner Smiley

    Not an expert on Freud, though to him alone I submit, until I read a book of a greater genius.
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #2 - April 04, 2011, 12:55 AM
    Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on April 04, 2011, 12:49 AM
    go from Islamic to Atheist,


    I wonder what an atheist super ego would even look like.   wacko  Or maybe I'm just falling into the trap of believing that being an atheist should come with freer morals.   lipsrsealed

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #3 - April 04, 2011, 01:11 AM
    I don't think the super-ego is just an imposition of morality but rather an imposition of absolutes. So anything you think is absolutely unchangeable or undoable or unthinkable is your super-ego speaking.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #4 - April 04, 2011, 01:14 AM
    If you have morals then you have super ego. Can't escape having morals, no matter what you believe, can you? That's my understanding.

    Have no idea what z10 just said - need to break it down.
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #5 - April 04, 2011, 01:19 AM
    Quote from: z10 on April 04, 2011, 01:11 AM
    I don't think the super-ego is just an imposition of morality but rather an imposition of absolutes. So anything you think is absolutely unchangeable or undoable or unthinkable is your super-ego speaking.


    I can understand the unthinkable part, but unchangeable in what sense?  just in how you view it, ie the absolute unchangeable judgement?

    It's a process of judgement against ones self right?  "I can't do it, I'm not good enough", so do you mean that a person views that in an absolutist way and if they didn't, there would be less super ego talk?

    Or do you mean it in some other sense that I am not grasping?  (super ego is slapping me right now for being too stupid to figure out what you mean Over react  )
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #6 - April 04, 2011, 01:20 AM
    Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on April 04, 2011, 01:14 AM
    If you have morals then you have super ego. Can't escape having morals, no matter what you believe, can you? That's my understanding.

    Have no idea what z10 just said - need to break it down.


    OMG Phew, I am soooooo happy someone else didn't intuitively get it.  Grin

    I'm not alone.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #7 - April 04, 2011, 01:23 AM
     Cheesy
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #8 - April 04, 2011, 01:28 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on April 04, 2011, 01:19 AM
    I can understand the unthinkable part, but unchangeable in what sense?  just in how you view it, ie the absolute unchangeable judgement?

    It's a process of judgement against ones self right?  "I can't do it, I'm not good enough", so do you mean that a person views that in an absolutist way and if they didn't, there would be less super ego talk?

    Or do you mean it in some other sense that I am not grasping?  (super ego is slapping me right now for being too stupid to figure out what you mean Over react  )


    Yes, making a judgement that is absolute over all situations is an act of the super-ego.
    For instance, let's take the example of pigs flying.
    As far as we know it's not possible for pigs to fly but if we then take a further step and make the absolute judgement that pigs can never ever fly then that is a function of the super ego.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #9 - April 04, 2011, 01:28 AM
     Cheesy I'm sorry guys, I have difficulties speaking clearly.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #10 - April 04, 2011, 01:33 AM
    Have you read Freud? Zigmund Freud? The German?
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #11 - April 04, 2011, 01:34 AM
    I think it depends on how long you've suppressed those desires to pleasure yourself and how happy you are with your life. I know someone who recently had a horrible break-up with her boyfriend towards whom she showed undeserving affection, to top it off, she has a horrible mother and she's addicted to weed. First time I met her, she would smoke about 3-5 spliffs a day and I'm not sure if she stayed strong to her promise whilst I wasn't in the same city but she's at it again and I see the correlation between her unhappiness with her life and her constant need to pleasure herself in a short span of time. I did have some of that ego but it vanished quite quickly and I constantly reminded myself of as to why I renounced religious beliefs in the first place; academia. I think I digressed but what I meant to say was that the role of suppression seems to have lesser significance according to my opinion and more to do with how content one is with life.
    "I measured the skies, now the shadows I measure,
    Sky-bound was the mind, earth-bound the body rests."
    [Kepler's epitaph]
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #12 - April 04, 2011, 01:38 AM
    Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on April 04, 2011, 01:33 AM
    Have you read Freud? Zigmund Freud? The German?


    Those are the guys with the tigers right?
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #13 - April 04, 2011, 01:44 AM
    Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on April 04, 2011, 01:33 AM
    Have you read Freud? Zigmund Freud? The German?


    Not all of his works, but I do think Lacan does a better job of stating the perils of psychological fascism (the super-ego) than Freud.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #14 - April 04, 2011, 01:50 AM
    Quote from: deusvult on April 04, 2011, 01:38 AM
    Those are the guys with the tigers right?


    No, they play for the Red Sox.
    fuck you
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #15 - April 04, 2011, 01:51 AM
    @z10
    You're too well read. I will not discuss Freud with you as you may know more about him than I do, wizard. I don't remember the flying pigs though...
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #16 - April 04, 2011, 01:52 AM
    I was drinking and fucking even when I was Muslim. The same as loads of young British Muslims are doing right now. Difference is, when a man does it, he's a hero. When a woman does it, she's a whore. Same in most cultures I guess, to different degrees. Obviously they do not tell their family, and pay public lip service to God and religion, but the global number of Muslims would be significantly reduced if we took out all the ones that have already bought their ticket to Hell, and know it too. Why else is the clergy so insecure and fearful, and driving harder and shouting louder than ever? Because they are losing control, even of their own herd. And most of these proselytising bastards are at it too. They are as lost and damned as anyone. The lure of a freer, clearer, more healthy and wholesome existence becomes evermore persuasive, understandable, interesting and attainable, with each generation, as religion surrenders more ground.

    The only prison I was ever in was the one imposed by my ex-family. They are just people, not gods, and certainly not godly. When I realised that, I truly shed my skin. And it was crystal clarity, when it did hit me. Like a white-hot bolt of enlightenment. I am lucky and thankful that they hate me, because it made cutting them out of my life so much easier. I cut out a disease, nothing else. There is no love lost. I do not envy those who have strong love and obligation for a family that is sucking the life out their very existence. I am lucky to not have to make such a terrible compromise or have such a burden on my conscience. As for the religion, that just fell away naturally. I am free. No regrets. Life is good.

    God bless atheism.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #17 - April 04, 2011, 01:53 AM
    Quote from: z10 on April 04, 2011, 01:28 AM
    Yes, making a judgement that is absolute over all situations is an act of the super-ego.
    For instance, let's take the example of pigs flying.
    As far as we know it's not possible for pigs to fly but if we then take a further step and make the absolute judgement that pigs can never ever fly then that is a function of the super ego.



    So I read you right  dance , but I agree.  Judgements are usually absolute, moral or not related at all to morality.  For instance it is not just against my base desires that I fight the super ego/absolutist judgements, but do you know, I have to remind myself that being a woman is not bad, I am not naturally less intelligent than a man, I am not less capable than a man, in short I have to fight not to beat myself up for not being a man, because I still deal with a belief that women are second place.  I don't absolutely believe this, but maybe somewhere deep inside of me I have a small part of me that is still battling the penis envy Islam gave me.

    Quote from: z10 on April 04, 2011, 01:28 AM
    Cheesy I'm sorry guys, I have difficulties speaking clearly.


    Grin

    Quote from: mchawking on April 04, 2011, 01:34 AM
    I think it depends on how long you've suppressed those desires to pleasure yourself and how happy you are with your life. I know someone who recently had a horrible break-up with her boyfriend towards whom she showed undeserving affection, to top it off, she has a horrible mother and she's addicted to weed. First time I met her, she would smoke about 3-5 spliffs a day and I'm not sure if she stayed strong to her promise whilst I wasn't in the same city but she's at it again and I see the correlation between her unhappiness with her life and her constant need to pleasure herself in a short span of time. I did have some of that ego but it vanished quite quickly and I constantly reminded myself of as to why I renounced religious beliefs in the first place; academia. I think I digressed but what I meant to say was that the role of suppression seems to have lesser significance according to my opinion and more to do with how content one is with life.


    This is me, only I smoke a lot more.  Even being at college doesn't negate my need for it.  It satisfies me but always leads to that self loathing of the super ego beating you up for having this weakness in the first place.  I don't smoke at college, but when I'm alone I do.  I think it matches your theory, I am happy when I am at college.  I have problems sure, but when I'm there recently I don't have the time to dwell.  I guess I am happier, and because I am happier I don't feel driven to blot it out.

    Then I come home, and blot it out, and go through the cycle again.

    Maybe like z10 said, I should challenge the absolute judgement I seem to have about cannabis.  I function well, I work hard (don't let anyone tell you motherhood is work lol), I study harder, and I'm not in debt because of it, so is my habit all that bad?  do I need to keep beating myself up via my super ego?  maybe these are questions to think about.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #18 - April 04, 2011, 01:58 AM
    Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on April 04, 2011, 01:51 AM
    @z10
    You're too well read. I will not discuss Freud with you as you may know more about him than I do, wizard. I don't remember the flying pigs though...


    Oh, that was just an example I came up with. And one's reading list should not be a qualification for a discussion, there are things that I'm sure I could learn from you too. Smiley
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #19 - April 04, 2011, 02:02 AM
    Quote from: Ishina on April 04, 2011, 01:52 AM
    I was drinking and fucking even when I was Muslim. The same as loads of young British Muslims are doing right now. Difference is, when a man does it, he's a hero. When a woman does it, she's a whore. Same in most cultures I guess, to different degrees. Obviously they do not tell their family, and pay public lip service to God and religion, but the global number of Muslims would be significantly reduced if we took out all the ones that have already bought their ticket to Hell, and know it too. Why else is the clergy so insecure and fearful, and driving harder and shouting louder than ever? Because they are losing control, even of their own herd. And most of these proselytising bastards are at it too. They are as lost and damned as anyone. The lure of a freer, clearer, more healthy and wholesome existence becomes evermore persuasive, understandable, interesting and attainable, with each generation, as religion surrenders more ground.

     

    So was I, although I still called myself a muslim, and went on to get married and not do this stuff anymore, and begin to loathe myself for it, and judge myself for it as I became more immersed in the religion.

    I know the punishments I recieved for my past have added somewhat to this thinking, but maybe it only aded to earlier childhood influences.

    I left home at 13, got married at 21, I was uncontrollable and wild in between those years.  I don't think I have forgiven myself even though I have lost belief in the religion.

    Quote

    The only prison I was ever in was the one imposed by my ex-family. They are just people, not gods, and certainly not godly. When I realised that, I truly shed my skin. And it was crystal clarity, when it did hit me. Like a white-hot bolt of enlightenment. I am lucky and thankful that they hate me, because it made cutting them out of my life so much easier. I cut out a disease, nothing else. There is no love lost. I do not envy those who have strong love and obligation for a family that is sucking the life out their very existence. I am lucky to not have to make such a terrible compromise or have such a burden on my conscience. As for the religion, that just fell away naturally. I am free. No regrets. Life is good.

    God bless atheism.


    I don't either.  I have no contact with my parents and no desire to either.  I am free, no one around me can judge me.  I am a grown ass woman, with 3 children a divorce under her belt, and yet why is it that I can't wholly, or haven't yet fully, shaken this shit off of me.

    I should be out there having fun, instead of warring with latent ideas that its wrong. Its not wrong, I know it isn't, but still I deal with some serious shame issues.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #20 - April 04, 2011, 02:02 AM
    @Berber
    You seem to be developing a case of super super ego, patient.
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #21 - April 04, 2011, 02:08 AM
    Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on April 04, 2011, 02:02 AM
    @Berber
    You seem to be developing a case of super super ego, patient.


    Stick around kid, you'll see some really batshit insane things if you do.   parrot

    I'm not developing anything, I'm a fully fledged basket case already.   Smiley
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #22 - April 04, 2011, 02:08 AM
     far away hug
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #23 - April 04, 2011, 02:15 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on April 04, 2011, 12:55 AM
    I wonder what an atheist super ego would even look like.   wacko  Or maybe I'm just falling into the trap of believing that being an atheist should come with freer morals.   lipsrsealed




    An atheist super ego is the same bullshit and neurosis that everyone goes though minus a few things.
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #24 - April 04, 2011, 02:18 AM
    z10,

    So this Lacan, was he a freudian and just elaborated on Z's great insights or did he deny the whole thing? (NB there's no 3rd option)
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #25 - April 04, 2011, 02:34 AM
    Yes, he was a freudian. In fact, it was Lacan that argued for a return to Freudian principles in psychoanalysis in the 60s.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #26 - April 04, 2011, 02:37 AM
    I already like this guy. Any book of his you recommend to start with? (If it is written for lay people, of course)
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #27 - April 04, 2011, 02:39 AM
    And I also want your introduction, z10.
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #28 - April 04, 2011, 02:40 AM
    It's almost impossible to read him first hand. I've only approached his work through secondary sources.
    The best I found were the Routledge Critical Thinkers: Lacan by Sean Homer and the Cambridge Companion to Lacan.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The ex-muslim super ego, do you haz it?
     Reply #29 - April 04, 2011, 02:44 AM
    Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on April 04, 2011, 02:37 AM
    I already like this guy. Any book of his you recommend to start with? (If it is written for lay people, of course)


    I'm curious, what makes you like this guy already?

    I'm not wholly sold on Freudian theories, so z10 saying that Lacan argued for a return to his principles, is what makes reading him attractive to you?  or if it's simply that he explores the facist element of the super ego more thoroughly, or does this mean you are sold on Freudian theory and want a return?

    If so why?

    I'm just curious.  I've read many arguments against his theories and many in support, so I'm currently interested in who agrees with him too.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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