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Theme Changer

 Topic: A Muslim speaking up for Israel

 (Read 11979 times)
  • Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #30 - April 08, 2011, 04:37 PM

    Billy, again if Judaism has reformed itself, then why are we seeing no go areas for uncovered women in Israel, why are we seeing rabbis who happen to be part of the Israeli government say such statements, as usual more stupid excuses to defend one of the most vile and racist relgions that infests this world.

    Judaism should receive the same treatment Islam and Christianity gets on this forum. The Jewish Past is no excuse to protect savage and barbaric attacks on innocent people.

    Look at the whole Dubai-Passport incident, the world is silent on that issue, arnt they? I guess its anti-semitism to accuse a Jew of Identity theft? Isnt it billy?


    A reformed religion accepts space for liberal interpretations and dissent from orthodoxy.


    To expand on Billy's point Pashtun, in Judaism (and Christianity) there exist a large number of progressive sects, each with large followings, which are not in danger of extermination or neutralization by the fundamentalists. The Southern Baptists may not consider UCC parishoners to be "real Christians", but UCC pastors don't live in constant fear of being assasinated by Southern Baptist militants, and while Reform Jewish congregations may be verbally attacked by the Orthodox Jews for allowing same-sex couples to wed, and peace-oriented Jewish groups may earn the enmity of their rabidly Zionist counterparts, we aren't seeing a string of bombings against more progressive synagogues by the fundamentalists, nor pogroms/mob violence against them-- here or in Israel, even if the radical Orthodox Jews do occasionally riot against or otherwise physically attack the secular authorities in Israel.

    Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for Islam at this point in history. That's not to say Islam will never take a step forwards as a whole, nor that Christianity and Judaism won't take a step backwards as a whole (indeed I fear for what may happen in our country now that Christian radicals are looking to escalate the current "holy war" between Christianity and Islam), but that's how it is right now, and how it's been in our lifetimes to this point. I think that's what billy means when he says Judaism and Christianity have "reformed" on the whole, whereas Islam has not.

    fuck you
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #31 - April 08, 2011, 05:00 PM

    Agreed Q-man. You are a great guy
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #32 - April 08, 2011, 08:54 PM

    I think the the best way for muslims to reform Islam is by not taking 'sahih' hadith as being all authentic and uncorrupted. If they do that then its easy as most Islamic Jurisprudence comes from the hadith and not the Quran.
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #33 - April 08, 2011, 09:02 PM

    Agreed Q-man. You are a great guy


    he is a God amongst men. we should start celebrating the day of his birth on this forum  grin12

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #34 - April 08, 2011, 09:05 PM

    I think the the best way for muslims to reform Islam is by not taking 'sahih' hadith as being all authentic and uncorrupted. If they do that then its easy as most Islamic Jurisprudence comes from the hadith and not the Quran.


    Nah, best way is for there to be an equivalent of the French Revolution, Revolutions of 1848, the Russian Revolution, and the Mexican and Spanish Revolutions in the Muslim world-- where the secular authorities kick the clerics asses and tame religion through the law, the guillotine and the firing squad.

    fuck you
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #35 - April 08, 2011, 09:07 PM

    I think the the best way for muslims to reform Islam is by not taking 'sahih' hadith as being all authentic and uncorrupted. If they do that then its easy as most Islamic Jurisprudence comes from the hadith and not the Quran.


    going the 'quran only' route wouldn't be perfect by any means, but i think you're right  - it's the best chance for reform, especially given the nature of the arabic language making it easier to get a 'progressive interpretation' of problematic verses. for a while before i apostated i went down this route, and at the time i thought i made some convincing arguments. we just need to wait for the beardos to become extinct - the next generation or the one after that could make the difference

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #36 - April 08, 2011, 09:09 PM

    I think the the best way for muslims to reform Islam is by not taking 'sahih' hadith as being all authentic and uncorrupted. If they do that then its easy as most Islamic Jurisprudence comes from the hadith and not the Quran.

    Islam need NOT be reformed., Islam of Books can stay in books ., No one cares .,  What is needed  is reforming Muslims   and Let me tell you much simple thing  to reform Muslims that I often talk & discuss reforming Muslims  with Muslims at dinner time Aphrodite. That is a very simple  thing.  And it is "SMILE" . , that is all what they need to learn  " to smile". Muslims forgot how to smile  and became robots when it comes to Islam.

    And they must smile  at any one and every one who "INSULTS MUHAMMAD/QUARN/HADITH/ALLAH/ISLAM/ISLAMIC RITUALS and Islamic history". The other thing at the best they can do to those who insults anything and everything in Islam is respond with some words like these
    Quote
    " Well those were the days they did what they did.  My Islam is different and I follow selective Islam that suits me and   that is in Islam" And I will not force any one or tell any one My Islam is better than your Islam."

    That is all what Muslims need to learn. If every Muslims follows that  rule of Allah which is delivered to yeezevee  Tongue  Everything will get set right to Muslims and non-Muslims with in few years if not few months.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #37 - April 08, 2011, 09:12 PM

    going the 'quran only' route wouldn't be perfect by any means, but i think you're right  - it's the best chance for reform, especially given the nature of the arabic language making it easier to get a 'progressive interpretation' of problematic verses. for a while before i apostated i went down this route, and at the time i thought i made some convincing arguments. we just need to wait for the beardos to become extinct - the next generation or the one after that could make the difference



    I don't mean using the Quran alone, I mean like ignoring certain hadith. The ones to do with things like prayer, how to do ablution etc. are fine. But hadith about Mo hitting his wives, early/child marriage and so on, need to be rejected.

    Nah, best way is for there to be an equivalent of the French Revolution, Revolutions of 1848, the Russian Revolution, and the Mexican and Spanish Revolutions in the Muslim world-- where the secular authorities kick the clerics asses and tame religion through the law, the guillotine and the firing squad.


    The closest you'll get to secularism in muslim countries is how Turkey is today.
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #38 - April 08, 2011, 09:24 PM

    The closest you'll get to secularism in muslim countries is how Turkey is today.


    That's a defeatist attitude. Imagine if Turkish-style secularism had spread throughout the former Ottoman Empire how different the social and political landscape would be today.

    In the 10th century, if a fellow freethinker told you Christendom would reform and progress before the lands of the Caliphate you probably would have regarded them as insane, but oh what a difference 500 years makes. Who knows what the present Muslim world will look like 500 years from now, or even 50 years from now? The West's imperial power is on the decline like the Romans of antiquity, while the people of the Arab world demand an end to tyranny-- we may yet see a secular social revolution in its beginning stages in the Muslim world within our lifetimes.

    fuck you
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #39 - April 08, 2011, 09:28 PM

     we may yet see a secular social revolution in its beginning stages in the Muslim world within our lifetimes.

    Life time?? life time?? what you are 90 year old??  I give 10 years at the top., Muslims lands will change for better in a very short time. Unless cold war start again between USSR and US of A ..  Rascals support one dictator vs other dictator with in the same country to make money by selling arms..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #40 - April 08, 2011, 09:29 PM

    yeezevee an optimistic idealist-- who woulda thunk it?

    fuck you
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #41 - April 08, 2011, 09:33 PM

    Israel still has a lot to answer for.

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #42 - April 08, 2011, 09:44 PM

    That's a defeatist attitude. Imagine if Turkish-style secularism had spread throughout the former Ottoman Empire how different the social and political landscape would be today.

    In the 10th century, if a fellow freethinker told you Christendom would reform and progress before the lands of the Caliphate you probably would have regarded them as insane, but oh what a difference 500 years makes. Who knows what the present Muslim world will look like 500 years from now, or even 50 years from now? The West's imperial power is on the decline like the Romans of antiquity, while the people of the Arab world demand an end to tyranny-- we may yet see a secular social revolution in its beginning stages in the Muslim world within our lifetimes.


    I didn't mean Turkey will be the only secular muslim country, I meant that that is the closest model that other muslim countries will get to (without the stupid hijab ban that is) or as you put it:

    Quote
    Imagine if Turkish-style secularism had spread throughout the former Ottoman Empire how different the social and political landscape would be today.


  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #43 - April 08, 2011, 09:48 PM

    I know exactly what you meant. I suggest you re-read what I wrote with that in mind.

    fuck you
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #44 - April 08, 2011, 09:57 PM

    The second part? Um I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens in countries like Tunisia and Egypt. I think it'll take about 50+ years for Islam to be reformed like Christianity was.
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #45 - April 08, 2011, 11:45 PM


    Another thing that is a marker for how much liberal space there is within a religion, to gauge how relatively de-fanged and neutered it is, is to observe the tyranny of literalism.

    To what degree is literalism the defining characteristic of the practised faith and the schools of the religion? How easy is it to openly dissent from literalist versions of the faith? Is literalism normative, or one of many different practices in a spectrum of observance?

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #46 - April 09, 2011, 02:39 AM

    Billy, again if Judaism has reformed itself, then why are we seeing no go areas for uncovered women in Israel, why are we seeing rabbis who happen to be part of the Israeli government say such statements, as usual more stupid excuses to defend one of the most vile and racist relgions that infests this world.

    Judaism should receive the same treatment Islam and Christianity gets on this forum. The Jewish Past is no excuse to protect savage and barbaric attacks on innocent people.

    Look at the whole Dubai-Passport incident, the world is silent on that issue, arnt they? I guess its anti-semitism to accuse a Jew of Identity theft? Isnt it billy?

    There is freedom of religion in Israel. If a Jew in Israel converts to Islam he or she would not be killed, they will not be rejected by their family. It is very dangerous for a Muslim in a Muslim country to convert to Judaism or Christianity, he or she would be killed. There are about one million Muslims (Arabs) in Israel. There are no Jews in Arab countries. Jews are not even allowed in Muslim countries. Jews attack innocent people is not true. If Israelis are so bad how is that Arabs are able to live in Israel?

    The mayor of New York is a Jew. He is a strong supporter of mosque on the 9/11 Ground Zero. Do you think Saudis, Pakistanis or Egyptians would appreciate that and honour him? I believe not. They hate him just the same because he is a Jew.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #47 - April 09, 2011, 03:13 AM

    There is freedom of religion in Israel. If a Jew in Israel converts to Islam he or she would not be killed, they will not be rejected by their family.


    How the fuck can you possibly know that?

    Quote
    If Israelis are so bad how is that Arabs are able to live in Israel?


    If Iran is so bad how is it that Jews are able to live in Iran?

    What a stupid argument.

    Quote
    The mayor of New York is a Jew. He is a strong supporter of mosque on the 9/11 Ground Zero. Do you think Saudis, Pakistanis or Egyptians would appreciate that and honour him? I believe not. They hate him just the same because he is a Jew.


    Again, how the fuck can you possibly know what all Saudis, Pakistanis and Egyptians think about Bloomberg and his policies?

    This asshole has me on ignore, so someone please quote me so this fuckin Muslim-bashing Hindu bigot doesn't get to just bury his head in the sand. Thanks in advance.

    fuck you
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #48 - April 09, 2011, 09:11 AM

    RAM.

    A message from Q replying to your post.

    How the fuck can you possibly know that?

    If Iran is so bad how is it that Jews are able to live in Iran?

    What a stupid argument.

    Again, how the fuck can you possibly know what all Saudis, Pakistanis and Egyptians think about Bloomberg and his policies?

    This asshole has me on ignore, so someone please quote me so this fuckin Muslim-bashing Hindu bigot doesn't get to just bury his head in the sand. Thanks in advance.

  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #49 - April 09, 2011, 01:02 PM

    RAM.

    A message from Q replying to your post.


    This Dog is the worst one and  should be never allowed into Mosque..  He enjoys others fighting  with each other..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #50 - April 09, 2011, 05:14 PM

    RAM.

    A message from Q replying to your post.



    Thanks.

    This Dog is the worst one and  should be never allowed into Mosque..  He enjoys others fighting  with each other..


     Cheesy Yeez is the fuckin best, man.

    fuck you
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #51 - April 09, 2011, 05:27 PM

    This Dog is the worst one and  should be never allowed into Mosque..  He enjoys others fighting  with each other..


     Lmao

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #52 - April 09, 2011, 06:09 PM

    This Dog is the worst one and  should be never allowed into Mosque..  He enjoys others fighting  with each other..


     Cheesy Cheesy dance
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #53 - April 13, 2011, 10:10 PM

    RAM.

    A message from Q replying to your post.

    I have a good reason to put the moron on ignore. There are very few Jews left in Iran. Most have left. The few Jews living in Iran live as 3rd class citizens. Bahais are persecuted, so are Sunni Muslims. Iran does not even tolerate Muslims who are not Shia.

    Please answer this - Is there freedom of religion Iran? Do you know that for a Muslim to leave Islam is ILLEGAL? The law is very clear in Iran - any Muslim who leaves Islam shall be executed. No such law exists in Israel. Jew is free to convert to any religion. He or she will still be citizen of Israel.

    There are 150 million Muslim in India. At least LEGALLY, Muslims are equal citizens in India. Every year hundreds of new mosques are built in India. But no Muslim country allows Hindus to build a temple. If a Hindus becomes a Muslim, he will NOT lose his job. His family will not kill him. He has the freedom to follow any religion he or she wants. What will happen to a Muslim who converts to Hinduism in Pakistan? Do you think he will be allowed to live?

    Look at the facts before you start splitting your hair.

    Have some people taken upon themselves to be carrier of Q-Man's disease?

    How do I know all this? Q-Man, the information is there for everyone to see. Don't get mad at me if you are so ignorant, blame yourself. Here is your chance to be educated.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #54 - April 14, 2011, 02:29 AM

    God this guy is stupid. Fuckin point of what I said blew right the fuck past him, and he starts going on a damn rant about Iran, telling me shit I'm already aware of. How someone so brain dead can still manage to type is beyond me.

    fuck you
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #55 - April 14, 2011, 06:27 AM

    I have a good reason to put the moron on ignore. There are very few Jews left in Iran. Most have left. The few Jews living in Iran live as 3rd class citizens. Bahais are persecuted, so are Sunni Muslims. Iran does not even tolerate Muslims who are not Shia.

    Please answer this - Is there freedom of religion Iran? Do you know that for a Muslim to leave Islam is ILLEGAL? The law is very clear in Iran - any Muslim who leaves Islam shall be executed. No such law exists in Israel. Jew is free to convert to any religion. He or she will still be citizen of Israel.

    There are 150 million Muslim in India. At least LEGALLY, Muslims are equal citizens in India. Every year hundreds of new mosques are built in India. But no Muslim country allows Hindus to build a temple. If a Hindus becomes a Muslim, he will NOT lose his job. His family will not kill him. He has the freedom to follow any religion he or she wants. What will happen to a Muslim who converts to Hinduism in Pakistan? Do you think he will be allowed to live?

    Look at the facts before you start splitting your hair.

    Have some people taken upon themselves to be carrier of Q-Man's disease?

    How do I know all this? Q-Man, the information is there for everyone to see. Don't get mad at me if you are so ignorant, blame yourself. Here is your chance to be educated.



    Don't quote me again. I'm gonna have to shower now.
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #56 - April 14, 2011, 06:27 AM

    God this guy is stupid. Fuckin point of what I said blew right the fuck past him, and he starts going on a damn rant about Iran, telling me shit I'm already aware of. How someone so brain dead can still manage to type is beyond me.


    RAMmed

    Q has something to tell you.
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #57 - April 14, 2011, 06:46 AM

    Quote from: Q-Man
    It was brave, I'll give you that, but I fail to understand your admiration for a man defending an apartheid state based on the theft of land, institutional discrimination/exploitation, and denial of the basic rights of the majority of the people in the land its occupies.


    What exactly qualifies Israel as an "Apartheid State" in your eyes Q-man? And exactly which land is Israel based on the "theft" of?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: A Muslim speaking up for Israel
     Reply #58 - April 15, 2011, 09:46 AM

    Q. Ramrod put me on ignore now as well. Someone else will have to carry the torch.
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